Due Process & CSA2010?????

Well CSA2010 is almost here, and it's gonna change everything and nothing.

Its more than just "safe driving." Remember back in the day when you were first getting your CDL? Remember something called a "pre-trip inspection?"

Everything you mentioned is part of a pre-trip. It should have been written up, and brought to your companies' attention. Then the ball is in their court. Instead your friend was speeding (5-mph over the speed limit isn't safe - and yeah, we pretty much all do it at times,) and gave the LEO a reason to pull him over and do a roadside safety inspection.

Nothing has changed. Two or three years ago, he would still have received a "fix-it" warning ticket at least, if not a full-fledged ticket for those violations. Now he gets a score too...

And everything has changed...

Yup, even though the FMCSA claims this is not about drivers - it is about us. Now that they have compiled this data on all of us, it will be used. When your carrier needs to renew its insurance, the CSA2010 scores will be used as part of the renewal process. And those drivers deemed too close to the edge will be let go...

My carrier didn't react the way yours did. Some of the high-tenure "safe drivers" came in with very high CSA2010 scores, due to accumulated warnings. They had a review with safety and dispatch, and got some remedial training. No one is getting fired - yet.

But it will change everything. The days of too many encounters with DOT and the law - then hopping to another carrier are over...

I've had this thought too. But there's another one. If one does their job properly - there's nothing to worry about. The FMCSRs have not changed one iota since this entire pile of CSA2010 BS started. The drivers who choose not to educate themselves about what is necessary to strap a 80,000-lb CMV on, or who choose not to take their responsibilities seriously will suffer consequences.

And yeah, I think that despite what the FMCSA and NTSB desire for an outcome, it will end with more low-time drivers on the road. That isn't a prescription for safer roads.

 

Yeah, I agree.... told my company's safety guy, FMCSA intentions may be good but the results will be desastrous, it will put more inexperienced drivers on the roads (just because they have "clean" records) and will remove many good, experienced drivers... Safety?? My rear end... And (safety guy said) my company will continue hiring students and cashing on them... but maybe not for too long (in my opinion). If they continue having one rollover a week...

 

Let say I am getting ready for work. I do a complete inspection of my equipment. Everything is in place and working as it should. I go on my way, While I am on the road a bulb goes out and due to the rough road (Manitoba Canda roads suck), I loose a reflector. I get back in the states and am pulled into a scale. Get a complete inspection and failed because of two little items. I get points put on me because these items went out while on the road. I will be ###### if I am going to stop every hour and do a walk around. #### happens, bulbs burn out, small things such as reflectors fall off all the time.

 

Your grasping at straws, I have had to replace 3 bulbs on my tractor/trailer in the last 12 months. I run 48 states and 3 provinces in all conditions and doubt that your reflector had a catastophic failure with no warning.

For those who talk about going over the point limit because of a light that fails in the 200/300 miles since your last comfort stop (or maybe 10 miles), the walk around at every stop is what a professional does every time. How did you miss it. The points you get for that light are not the problem, it's all the violations you received previously that cause the problem. Do it right, do it every time, and carry spares. You wont have the problems.

 

I agree with you, #### happens and some days you are just out of luck.
Sometimes, unless you stop every hr and walkaround the truck to make sure every light and everything else is working fine, you don't know.
There were times I only found I had problems with my lights because other drivers told me via CB. I carry spare light bulbs but if the problem is the harness, most of the time only Freightliner will have the part to fix it and that means, will have to drive (with light out) to the nearest Freightliner (sometimes many many miles) and wait and wait till they can fix it.
So, maybe now when we find that we have a light out and we can't fix it by ourselves, better call our co. and ask them to send some roadside assistance and have it fixed right there...

 

I have had many failures of lights on the road in the last year. The winters can be real tough on wiring and lights in my area. Winter road chemicals can easily work their way past even the tightest seals on wet slimy winter days. They sit in there and eat away at connections on the inside and you can not see the damage without cutting things open.

As far as reflectors etc. Well unless you physically grab a hold of them and yank then you can never know when they are going to fall off. See I run product from farmers to processing plants. This means I don't get to run the nice interstates. I am stuck to the E ticket rides that manitoba call roads. Then I cross into ND and have to run the ill kept up state roads that are hammered out by the 105K lb trucks.

 

From the "Just the facts flyer about CSA 2010 from FMCSA.
CSA 2010: [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium,Franklin Gothic Medium][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium,Franklin Gothic Medium]JUST THE FACTS [/FONT]
[/FONT]

1. Comprehensive Safety Analysis 2010 (CSA 2010) does not give the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) the authority to remove 175,000 drivers from their jobs and cannot be used to rate drivers or to revoke a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). FMCSA does not have the authority to take those actions. Only State agencies responsible for issuing licenses, CDL or otherwise, have the authority to suspend them. CSA 2010 does introduce a driver safety assessment tool to help enforcement staff evaluate drivers’ safety as part of motor carrier investigations.


2. Using the new Safety Measurement System (SMS), FMCSA continues to hold motor carriers
responsible for the job performance of those who work for them. Therefore, motor carriers are
held accountable for their drivers’ errors such as speeding. This is a longstanding FMCSA
position and is not unique to CSA 2010 or the new SMS.



3. Carriers who are considering hiring drivers can review "Driver Profiles" if the drivers have authorized the release of their information. These profiles are compiled from FMCSA’s Driver Information Resource (DIR) and will be available to carriers through FMCSA’s new Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP). Drivers can view their own profiles. PSP is only available as a pre-screening tool and not for use in evaluating current drivers. PSP was mandated by Congress and is not a part of CSA 2010.




4. Potentially erroneous violations on carrier/driver records can be submitted for review. The DataQs system (https://dataqs.fmcsa.dot.gov), which does not change under CSA 2010, allows motor carriers and drivers to make a Request for Data Review (RDR) of information that resides in FMCSA databases such as crash and inspection reports.



5. While some third party vendors are developing and marketing CSA 2010 driver scorecards, consumers should know that these companies do not have access to the driver violation histories in the FMCSA databases despite some claims that they do. FMCSA has not and will not validate any vendors’ scorecards or data. Also, keep in mind that the SMS is subject to change prior to its launch in response to the test results




Let me ask the driver's here something. What has changed? You do your Pre- trip and make sure everything is correct. You do your log book as required. You drive as a professional driver and don't tailgate, speed, do drugs or alcohol, unsafe lane changes, etc., etc, etc.......How will this affect you?...............................It won't. It will affect the guys that are not professional and don't do their log book, could care less what they drive or what condition it is in. I understand your concerns. But if you do what you are required to do, you will be fine. If your a steering wheel holder.....................maybe you won't make out so fine. There is a lot of speculation and I have not had anyone confirm to me that insurance companies are using this data. No one can confirm the rumor, to me that the DMV's will use it. There is a lot of truck stop lawyers spreading hate and dismay up and down the highways on Channel 19. I'm like a lot of you, I'm waiting to see what it is, what it will do before I comment one way or another on this topic. I found the just the facts flyer on the FMCSA web site concern CSA 2010.

I can tell you this, I have seen a huge increase in the Data Q's we receive on a daily basis. Most of what I have seen is something that was out of service, like a rear turn signal being inoperative. The driver fixed it within 10 minutes, why do you list it as a violation and out of service? I have seen some crazy ones too though. I think the uncertain, unchartered waters we are treading has put a lot of folks on edge. I wish there was more factual information out there and less rumors. The rumors do nothing to help the industry or the driver's. Anyway, good luck to everyone as the CSA 2010 is implemented. Be a professional, do it right and do it everytime.

 

I'm almost sure the score my company got from a vendor for my co-worker is wrong (according to my understanding of what is on the CSA 2010 handbook). Told my friend to get some accurate information and challenge that.

Problem is FMCSA is using data from 3 years ago.
They changed everything on us and that is totally unfair.
Violations and warnings that didn't have much importance in the past will really hurt us now and will follow us for 3 more years.
So even if we don't ever get another ticket, violation or anything again, we will have to live with high scores (some of us) due to old warnings and some old stupid violations.
That is UNFAIR, WRONG and it WILL affect many of us big time.