E-logs and Reality

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Red Hot Mess, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. shredfit1

    shredfit1 Road Train Member

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    I'm saying most if not all, fudge wait times on paper logs. I'm not saying we run crazy illegal, and some wait times cannot be fudged as BOL's have times that need matching up. The amount of time that can be fudged, can add up to another load in a day in most circumstances.

    I'm saying that mandating EOBR's will reduce the efficiency of almost every truck, thus requiring more trucks to do the given work, which will increase wait times... and cost more to do the job.

    Who do you think will pay for this increased cost? Will fuel prices go up with shortages? If fuel prices do go up, what happen to other freight being moved? Who pays for those increases?
     
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  3. Cowpie1

    Cowpie1 Road Train Member

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    All the times, even on a bill of lading, have to match up to is that you were physically at the property where you were loading or unloading. It does not mean that you were actually on duty the whole time you were there! There is no mandate to log every minute at a location "on duty". Just actual loading / unloading times. I have even taken legally logged breaks at a customer property, upwards of 10 hrs. That is what I was doing. No "fudging" of the logs. If I am not actually involved or responsible for the loading or unloading, I am on line 1 or 2. If the time were to be 2 hrs or more, then that off duty, combined with a 8 hr sleeper berth later, qualifies for my split break and I keep on moving. Have done it several times, legally, and gone thru FMCSA audit with no problems. If I can go to the can, get a soda, stand around and chat with someone, etc, in other words, not responsible for the load, then I am off duty.

    I will concede that some will be negatively affected, and it will be a tough deal for some operations. But most will not have a tough time of it if they just use the gray matter between their ears and use the regs as best they can in their favor. I have hauled fuel in the past. There will be instances where the new regs will be burdensome and cause problems. But if one is not so anal and "scared" to use the regs, to some degree, in their favor by taking a more loose interpretation of them and using them in their favor, they can make it work. We have 18 months to modify how we are all dong things to make it all work.

    And even on an Elog, my NET income has gone up 3 out of the last 4 years. Almost $70K last year. Something is working right.
     
  4. shredfit1

    shredfit1 Road Train Member

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    Yes, we do this as well, however... as I think you already know... this still eats up your daily 14(11 and 3). It is really of no help to fuel haulers as we are getting multiple loads per day from just a few terminals... perhaps with a back haul of booze(ethanol)... which can have loading and unloading wait times as well.

    It is what it is, in a perfect world, we all could just log it as we do it.. but it is not uncommon to have 5, 6, or even 7 hours of added wait times per day for loading or unloading... leaving only a few hours to do actual fuel drops.

    I could see e-logs working for long distance OTR runs and even some regional stuff... but multi-state fuel hauling... it just doesn't work in the current market driven system in place now.

    I suspect what will happen, if they do require all fuel haulers to go with e-logs is that when we try to comply... and shortages start occuring. Exemptions will be brought on by state gov'ts(just like fall harvest season)... and it will be back to business as usual for us tanker yankers.
     
  5. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

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    Your missing my point. So its ok for shippers/receivers, and buyers to set unreal and unlawfull appointment times after someone picks up the load? Yes, its the drivers choice to run under law or push it, but what iam saying is everyone should be held accountable, not just the driver. Its like a Mob boss paying you to shoot someone, you do it, get caught and you go to jail, but the Mob boss skates free. The law would catch both of them. So why can't the goverment, thats "so worried about saftey" make laws to make all partys accountable and have to be held to the same regulations.

    I get most of my loads from the Buyer. if it was up the them, noone would sleep. Thats how fresh produce works, they loose money on produce if its not ontime in some cases. I tell them to bad, this is when i can be there. I get skipped on some great paying loads because i won't push. It still should be aginst the law for them to attempt to even make guys try to run over hours. If a driver that decides to run over hours and gets caught, the paper work should state what time load was picked up, what time buyer/receiver wants it there and show who started the push. Then all partys get fined.

    I bet things would change in a heartbeat. But it won't. The goverment takes care of the people who line there pockets with money, "The Mega Carriers" Safety has nothing to do with it.:biggrin_25516:
     
  6. SmoothShifter

    SmoothShifter Defender of the Driveline

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    I would have to say that the government does care about safety. They have families in cars next to all the big trucks, and it's not a matter of, "Let them fly off the road and we'll collect the fines...."

    I think guys like dieselbear are genuine. I don't see him as a revenue collector, and the government pays his salary. I see him as the type of LEO that if he pulled you over, and everything checked out except the fact that you were 10 minutes from the yard at hour 11:15, he'd look at you and go, "Don't make a habit of it...."

    Y'see, that what you are going to forfeit when we let Big Bro step in and make laws for the shippers, and put tattle boxes on everything, because we let shippers and receivers take advantage of us because we are afraid of "losing our jobs".

    And....good for you. It's not a matter of losing time, it's a matter of paying for an expedited service. If it has to be there and one guy can't get it there on time by himself, well, then pay for 2. But alas, that's losing money as well.

    The only reason you get skipped is because there is someone standing right behind you ready, willing and able to break the law to get it done.

    But it is just an attempt. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads. They are wagging a dollar bill.

    IDGAF.

    It's up to the driver to say "No, I'm not going to drive 30 hours straight without sleep to get it there." It's already evident that people here run a business, make good money, and seem to be able to do it with those EOBR's, or the common sense to tell their customer, "I've got some laws to abide by, I'll get it there as fast as I can without compromising that."

    That shipper/broker isn't losing any sleep, and will not lose any sleep if his freight is sitting on top of a family of 4 in a fatigue related accident.

    I've seen guys wait for hours for a dock door and then spend more hours sorting/segregating and handling their freight because it's saves the receiver having to pay an employee to do it. Then, log it as "sleeper time" when in reality they are working, so now we can drive more than we are supposed to. Or, they hire a lumper service who 80% of the time isn't even legit, and put it into the cost of transportation.

    There are many people who will run 2 log books, 3 Qualcomms, invent phantom drivers, because if you don't get that load of produce from LA to NYC in less than 52 hours, someone else will step right up and attempt it. If everybody said, "Nope, it's gonna take me almost twice as long to run it legal, or you need to find a team to do it....", than what options would those big bully shippers have?

    No, we will wait for the government to step in and mandate transit times for solo drivers, and enforce it, because we no longer as an industry have the balls or integrity to stand for what is right.

    This industry and the people in it, starting with the person who owns the knuckles that clench the wheel are the biggest instruments for change if they could just stand for what is right.

    There is always talk of a strike, which I don't see happening. Too much dissension in the business.

    Big Brother ain't gonna fix what's broken. It's up to us.
     
    ricrey99 and Stump Thank this.
  7. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

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    Soooo, like i stated before, you think all the blame should be on the driver, not the partys that push it...... well ok, drivers are satan, the buyers and shippers are in the right. This proves, trucking is, and has been, going down the drain.

    Until there is a Transportation wide regulation, this will never end.

    I never blamed the law enforcement. They are doing there job. The Police might care about safety, there familys are the ones shareing the road. Congress cares about the people who line there pockets. The rest of us are pawns.

    I get skipped on loads that are pushed, because i care, but for everyone of me, there is a driver who looks money first, because a buyer will offer it.

    So that makes it "OK'' FOR THE BUYER TO OFFER!! Knowing he is asking someone to break the law!!

    If you say yes, or say the easy comeback, "Its up to the driver to pull the load" It will never end!! No matter how many drivers go down for the offer.

    Until the Buyers/shippers, and receivers are held responsiable, with drivers/carriers, it will always go on!
     
  8. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

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    But it is just an attempt. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads. They are wagging a dollar bill.

    So, if i ask you to kill someone for money, and you do it, I'am in the clear?

    Whats the differences if i ask you to run over hours for more money, you wreak and kill someone, you go to jail, i move on to next driver willing. I guess this is ok to?

    Its called being held responsiable, All partys involved. This is my point.

    But money wins! Not saftey.
     
  9. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

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    Your last statement is true Smoothshifter, big brother wont help, we have already lost to the dollar. Drivers won't get together like back when my Dad was a young driver to make a true "saftey change"
     
  10. shredfit1

    shredfit1 Road Train Member

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    The difference is intent. If one is going to commit the crime of murder for money. The intent is there for the killing.

    If someone is involved in a 'wreck' many times refered to as an 'accident', there is no intent to cause harm.

    It's just our blame oriented society the requires a clear reason for an unfortunate occurrence... (ie the accident). Why? Guess it make some feel better?

    So, if a person is hungry. Someone offers them some food... however, the hungry person has a fatal food allergy to the food being offered. Should we punish the person willing to give the food to the hungry person? Certainly they didn't intend to cause this persons death by food allergy.
     
  11. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

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    So its ok for a Buyer/shipper to push a driver to break a law, with no punishment? Only punishment for the driver? So when does it end? Only out of a drivers pocket, not the other partys involved? Please, think about this from all partys involved, not like a law maker, or puppet.
     
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