Flatbed MPG

Discussion in 'Flatbed Trucking Forum' started by twolane, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. roshea

    roshea Road Train Member

    Yes, running 200-205 should be more efficient, but starts pushing the limits of the coolants capacity. Non water based coolants seem like a good idea but sure aren't cheap. Close to $50/GL I think. Another thing is if you can keep the temperature of the fuel as cool as possible, racers have worked on that for decades, running fuel lines through dry ice and such to chill it as much as possible. The denser the fuel is when injected the more expansion you get upon combustion, therefore more power. Pretty hard to do on our type of trucks I'd say.
     
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  3. twolane

    twolane Medium Load Member

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    Hows that work? Plain ole h2o boils at 212deg. at sea-level.
    With an anti-freeze/h2o mixture the boiling point is alot higher than that.
    More infact than the engine can endure.

    Why would ya want an anti-freeze that boils at a higher temp. than your engine can endure?

    No argument here...just want to know what benefit this $50.00 per gallon anti-freeze is?
     
  4. roshea

    roshea Road Train Member

    I don't know all the details, but here are the highlights. First, common antifreeze is water based, and not everyone is meticulous about maintaining the proper ratio of antifreeze to water. That alters the freeze and boiling points. I've seen drivers that have a leak just keep adding water, to the point that it eventually replaces all but a trace of any antifreeze in the system. I've had two drivers do that to my trucks over the years. Ruined two engines come winter when they took time off. Second, water conducts electricity, thus it promotes galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals. Iron based blocks with aluminum components, possible copper, some zinc, and you get internal corrosion. Think radiator cores for one, water jacketed oil coolers, etc. where there is thin metal. There are distinct disadvantages to a water based system, but it is cheap and easy, and the damages take time to manifest themselves. If you keep a truck three to five years chances are you won't see any of these issues if you follow all precautions. And while the boiling point of a proper mixture is high it is still a hundred or so degrees lower than the non water based liquids.

    Also, our coolant systems are designed to operate with a couple pounds of pressure, because as pressure is raised so is the boiling point of any liquid. The new coolants do not need a pressurized system to operate which results in a bit less stress on components, and it would be perfectly safe to open the system at 300° and it wouldn't suddenly boil up and explode out of the coolant tank or radiator, as a water based coolant will do. Ever notice the warning not to remove a radiator cap until it cools down?

    Now imagine something like a water pump failure where temperatures will build rapidly and the heat cannot be dissipated. Engine protection should shut the engine down but you will still have a lot of heat being absorbed into the coolant, and with no, or minimal, circulation hot spots will develop where the coolant begins to boil. At those locations the air bubbles that form will mostly be in contact with the metal surfaces, which will reduce the heat transfer from the metal to the coolant and further increase the potential for damages such as cracked blocks or cracker and warped heads. With a BP of 375 the new coolants can absorb more of the heat, and by their molecular structure in liquid form they do no have entrapped air that bubbles off as we have with water based mixtures. That along with being non-conductive makes a good argument for their use. Cost and easy availability make their adoption slow. They are clearly better, but it will be a long time I think before widespread use will be seen until cost comes down closer to glycol coolant prices.
     
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  5. twolane

    twolane Medium Load Member

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    roshea,
    Impressive!
    Thanks for taking the time.
     
  6. Flightline

    Flightline Road Train Member

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    Let me clear up a myth. Diesels engine are designed to take normal tempertures above 300 degrees.
    The problem with water is turning to steam above boiling.
    Also water cause metal corrosion at 170 degrees slightly but strongly above 200 degrees. Water is the problem
     
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  7. roshea

    roshea Road Train Member

    Yeah, what Flightline said!
     
  8. twolane

    twolane Medium Load Member

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    I don't agree Sir...a propane torch willl expand a piston at the pin-boss, enough to push the wrist-pin by hand! I've built too many engines to beleve that excessive temps. won't hurt. Inadequate temps are just as bad.

    Your super antifreeze leaks out as anything else, so thats not a good argument for $50.00 a gallon antifreeze IMO. Drivers? Yer kiding right?

    Engines/components are designed to operate within specific temperature parameters. Exceding those parameters either way, results in excessive wear or a catistrophic problem.

    Those little bubbles on the liner you refer to, are caused by electrolysis, turbulence, and temperature differentials between the steel & coolant.
    When these tiny bubbles "pop" they create dimples in the steel liner eventually eroding a hole. Coolant aditives reduce this to a manageable level.
    I know ya knew that!
    My point is that fooling with operating temps. is fool-hardy IMO.

    There is no engine I'm farmiliar with that will a survive 300 deg. coolant temp. 220 is pushing it!

    Also,,,whether there is pressure in the system or not, boiling points are what they are. Increasing the psi. increases the boiling point as you said.

    I see no advantage to using a colant that will operate at higher temps than the engine is designed to operate at.

    Please advise.
     
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  9. Flightline

    Flightline Road Train Member

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    At this point, I'm out of here. I'm not gona try and argue with someone professing alot of misinformation. Just go and talk to the manufactures of the engines and engine parts.
    I would agree with possible leakage but this day and age, you shouldn't have any leakage.
    Not sure I can justify the extreme cost of $50 a gallon which is correct.
    But the engines will take the temperature.
    Propane torch is a controlled 300 degrees? Were not talking about putting a torch on the wrist pins,. Top of the pistons with the diesel explosions temperatrues do exceed 800 degrees on regular basis.
    But Hey I've built many engines also and done many things with them.
    Also cool engine temperatues like 150 degrees does not hurt an engine in anyway except poor economy and bad emmisions.
     
  10. twolane

    twolane Medium Load Member

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    It wasn't an argument Sir! I thought it was a dicusssion. Your very knowlegable and again I apprecieate your taking the time to explain why you believe as you do...I just don't agree.

    Merry Christmas!
     
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  11. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    I wouldn't want to run at elevated temperatures for a number of reasons. First all of the clearances within the engine are designed for a certain temperature and a certain viscosity oil. Running the engine very hot changes clearances and also the temperature of the oil, which lowers viscosity. That's why overheated engines scuff liners.

    OEMs have found between 180-200 degrees is where the least amount of engine wear occurs. Thermostats have crept up a bit for emissions reasons.

    CylinderWallWearvsOperatingTemperature.jpg
     
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