How limiting is my setup?

Specific to Pennsylvania a motor carrier can buy and sell as many as they want if they are registered as a fleet (minimum of 15 trucks in PA). They will also then be eligible for a special use dealer plate to move the vehicles before and after they have been in service. The limit to this is every vehicle must be titled and registered under the fleet system for it to not count towards the 5 total for the year before requiring a dealer license.

The other restriction with the PA fleet program is dismantling. While a fleet can have parts trucks out back to salvage parts from, they can't sell the parts to other persons. When they are ready to scrap the remaining hulk of the vehicle they will then sell that to a licensed dismantler/salvage yard.

 

I'm curious how this person did this, if he was in compliance or not.

I myself want to understand these rules better. I think these things are not often discussed but there's probably a lot of legal problems that can come from them.

Do you have to have 15 trucks to register as a fleet? What is involved with that?

I will tell you this individual shared a company with his brother. The brother had three trucks and he had two. But he would constantly constantly be buying and selling them.

He sold so many trucks I bet that was probably like half of his income.

How does the dealer plate work? What does that mean using it before they're in service and after?

Is that for trailers also?

You said this is a special use dealer plate.

I'm guessing that does not give you a dealer license to go to auctions?

 

Yes, you must have a minimum of 15 registered vehicles to qualify for fleet registration in Pennsylvania. There is a whole process and it gives you some flexibility such as choosing the expiration dates of your non-apportioned registrations and being able to easily transfer tags to new trucks in the fleet. These are non-apportioned vehicles, so any IRP required vehicles do not count towards the fleet registration program.

As for the company you are speaking of, I can't say anything with any certainty however many people simply ignore the rules and do what they wish when it comes to buying and selling vehicles. If I had to guess I would bet many of the vehicles he flipped were never titled in his name which makes it harder to track and figure out he is selling mor than the 5 allowed by state law.

There are plenty of "driveway dealers" everywhere and Pennsylvania is no exception. In my home county there was a group of these folks illegally acting as dealers that were also State Troopers. Yes, they had enough guts to illegally sell vehicles at their own homes which ultimately lead to them being caught but given very light penalties. Where I am at, only a few miles form both NY and NJ, we have a big problem with people buying cars in NY or NJ, where notarization of the title isn't required, then not putting the title into their own names. Instead they offer these for sale and simply give the new buyer a signed out of state title and a bill of sale in the other persons name. Happens every day although it is not legal.

Properly licensed dealers, like I was, have almost given up even filing complaints since the state does little to combat it.

As for the special dealer plate for fleet registrations, I am having difficulty finding the information today. It has been several years since I dealt with PA fleet registrations so the rules may have changed. In my previous experience, a PA fleet was eligible for what PennDOT calls a miscellaneous motor vehicle business plate. These plates are typically issued to repair/towing services, repossesses, transporters and boat/boat trailer dealers (which are not required to be a licensed motor vehicle dealer). They are in the same class as a "dealer" plate but without any dealer privileges.

The last time I dealt with these MMVB plates for a fleet registrant, they were only to be used for when the fleet buys a truck and it is not yet registered, or after taking the truck out of service and transferring the registration plate to another fleet vehicle. It is to allow a fleet to drive these trucks to/from service centers, upfitters or to road test them to potential purchasers. It does not give them any dealer privileges. It is for any fleet motor vehicle and can not be used if the vehicle is laden. Very similar to a "Hunter's Permit" except they were a hard metal plate owned by the fleet instead of a temporary permit ordered form the state.

I will see if I can find more about it this week and call one of my old contacts. I haven't done PA title and tag or dealer stuff in several years, coming up on almost 9 now, so my info is a little out of date. Put it this way, when I had my dealer license PennDOT was still in charge of the dealership license and registrations and now it is the Department of State that regulates vehicle dealerships and salespersons but PennDOT still regulates the license plates. A lot has changed in the past few years.

 

You know Brian, everybody on this site has some kind of a different knowledge, and we are fortunate that people contribute their expertise.

I greatly appreciate you being on the site and answering my questions.

I've often wondered why people would use a compliance company. I know you do more than that, but I've always wondered about that.

I see now. You have knowledge of things most of us don't even know that they exist, let alone how they work.

So I just wanted to thank you Brian because you truly have a very extensive specialized knowledge about these things.

If you find any further information please let me know.