Imodium Problem. A recurring Opioid issue.

Discussion in 'Driver Health' started by x1Heavy, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    Ok. Drivers and Companies, A little background on me.

    Im a patient who is under a doctor's care with certain medicines that are not allowed in trucking due to it's Scheduled Lists controlled by the Government and regulated over time and number of doses via a doctor who is him or herself examined very closely by the Authorities regularly.

    There are people who intend to overdose or otherwise bypass the Limitations and those are not the ones welcome here. I reject any Driver who wishes to be high or altered mentally/physically and drive. Driving sleepy is the same as driving drunk or worse. Doping up on Caffeine pills by the box was the worst Ive done to endure 30-48 hour days between rest periods running the seaports with a daycab and no bunk in sight. There is a reason I don't do that anymore. Lives depend on you being alert and safe on the big road.

    With that said... here is a new problem. Imodium. The anti Diarrhea Medicine. Let me explain briefly before I start linking to the multiple sources and articles that hit the net tonight about this anti diarrhea medicine.

    In trucking you might drink bad water, or eat bad food and all of us I dare say have at one time or another drank Imodium to keep the wheels turning. Right?

    What the medicine contains is called loperamide It is specific to Imodium.

    Keopectate is what I use most often and still use when my medicines create a occasional Gut problem. Ive been taught in the past during surgeries I have had several, that pain medicine, anthesia and other chemicals which attack your receptors and go into your brain to shut you down will usually shut your gut down meaning you don't get to have a BM, Pass Gas etc until several days after the surgery is removed and medicines is stopped including a period in which they watch you begin to generate gases again as your gut wakes up and goes back to it's work removing waste from you. This is what they do to all patients before they discharge you.

    Where am I going with all of this? Bear with me. I do not write very good, but I feel powerful strong about this developing situation that might be the next big thing and possibly affect many of you without you understanding what you are doing to yourselves.

    Bottom line. With this linked article... in short Addicts who are denied medicine or cannot get to street illegal drugs (Including those who are proven to be dependant through no fault of their own...) will use Imodium now in large doses. It is enough in two cases documented (Links provided elsewhere) to interfere with the heart timing and kill them.

    Taking from the article two paragraphs...

    Quote

    Loperamide was once sold only by prescription and was listed as a controlled substance the same way cocaine and methadone are. Originally approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1976, the medication was allowed as an over-the-counter treatment in 1988.

    The FDA says it is aware of the growing loperamide problem and “will take appropriate steps as soon as possible,” to curb further abuse.

    End Quote

    Source of this quote

    http://www.rightinginjustice.com/ne...ng-to-anti-diarrhea-drug-imodium-to-get-high/

    Many darknet (Illegal side of the US Internet, a slang term describing such) are beginning to light up with forum posts about using Loperamide to bypass Opioid Withdrawal which is a REAL problem for so many who cannot even get through a day without medicine without spending same puking guts out in the toilet and sweating buckets of fluid until dehydration sets the kidneys to quit working putting them into the ER.


    Next article Link...

    I know this is from Fox News. Laugh about it what you will. I do follow them on the Tech Side usually but once in a while dear Uncle Sam begins to lurch towards a action that will affect all of us at some point in the future when enough People abuse something over the counter.

    This article explains what addicts are doing on purpose to bypass the withdrawls and realizing that this particular substance within the OTC medicine was also part of the same family of controlled substances back in 1976.

    The main thing to remember is that this substance attaches the the receptors in the gut and when taken far beyond recommendation doses will travel up your Spinal Cord which is a highway for ALL chemicals, Medicines adminstered to you towards your brain. Inside your skull sits a barrier that rejects this substance from Imodium to prevent you from getting high.

    However addicts report that they flood themselves enough to get it. After they discover that somehow the Imodium helps them with the bad bowl experiences when they cannot get any more pain medicine, illegal drugs or run out early before a state enforced refill date a few days to weeks prior due to abuse they are trying to conceal from the pain doctor or another provider.

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/...ting-high-on-diarrhea-medicine-and-dying.html

    Here is the short one paragraph article published for ALL doctors in Medicine about this substance in Imodium.
    Loperamide is an over-the-counter antidiarrheal with μ-opioid agonist activity. Central nervous system opioid effects are not observed after therapeutic oral dosing because of poor bioavailability and minimal central nervous system penetration. However, central nervous system opioid effects do occur after supratherapeutic oral doses. Recently, oral loperamide abuse as an opioid substitute has been increasing among patients attempting to self-treat their opioid addiction. Ventricular dysrhythmias and prolongation of the QRS duration and QTc interval have been reported after oral loperamide abuse. We describe 2 fatalities in the setting of significantly elevated loperamide concentrations.

    References link is within this page on this following link...

    http://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(16)30052-X/fulltext

    Now that one is out of the way.... Here is another...

    This following link describes in plain language what addicts experience when they withdraw. It is for many very, severe and requires drugs like Buds (Short for Budaphierine and Methadone) to fight and halt (Essentially a rehab in a cup, needle or implanted device)

    http://www.healthline.com/health/imodium-and-opiate-withdrawal#Overview1

    This next link is a heavy hitting article written by a person very familiar with this situation which is evolving fast. All I can do is point you there and tell you to grab some coffee and read this one... In addition to the others.

    https://www.thrillist.com/health/nation/loperamide-high-why-people-are-getting-high-on-imodium


    This next link shows a implantable device that has recently gotten approved as a tool to fight addicts and kick them off the Opioids in 6 months. Unfortunately as in the article indirectly addicts have found that they can get ahold of substances after being implanted and experience something that makes it worth doing while trying to stabotage themselves. You know at this point they are incorrigible.

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/...proved-anti-opioid-implant.html?intcmp=hphz02

    Here is a link to a specific medicine that could be more widely prescribed to help those in withdrawl to get them a chance at being able to be human and be able to live. I believe many doctors do not bother to prescribe this substance and it is my impression even possessing this stuff in your pocket outside of the home is a no no. Police would have a field day with it. I myself have never been on this stuff but many people have and this might be something for those of you demonstrating a desire to learn what Buprenorphine is and how it's used.

    Buprenorphine

    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a605002.html

    Finally but not last.

    The Government has been waging a war on drugs and dating from 1994 CDL Laws by President Clinton makes it unlawful for Truckers to have anything in the system, even alcohol from sleep aids, mouthwash etc. Anything that might cause a drug test to get dirty would cause the driver to be out on his or her ### unemployed and unemployable. This is what the war on drugs has brought us after the so called declaration back when I was listening to Carter and Reagen in Grade School proclaim they will crush anyone doing illegal drugs.

    What most people do not realize is that Coke used to have certain substances in it that is considered a controlled substance today. Prior to the Food and Drug act of 1934, anyone in America could buy drugs of any kind they wished (And did.) In fact... Cocaine was a medicine prescribed by Doctors until roughly 1948 or so to stop nose bleeds or other issues related to feeling unwell. President Roosevelt's own doctor during the war years administered cocaine the day Pearl Harbor was attacked to help him get ready for the speech to Congress. Not that he was doped, no where near it. But in those days were way different than we live today. History Channel discussed this material in one of the recent shows some months ago so it's not like it's a state secret anymore.

    Finally but not least.

    I stand against anyone who wish to throw their lives away with illegal drugs. I spent decades telling the ER doc no narcotics because I was in pain and was afraid that the company will drug test me when I get back to the truck from the hospital and show that they can fire me for medicines given by the doc to help with the injury on the dock, flatbed or street fight etc whatever. So I told the doc no narcotics.

    Im not on the road for a number of very good medical reasons and cannot pass a DOT physical. But that is what it is in my life and Im ok with that. What I do choose to do is sit down, use some of that remaining time to share and teach you Truckers about some of the things that are probably going to want to hear about while we are around.

    When you see Imodium vanish from the shelves this year or next you will know why. If the stuff works for you and keeps you rolling on that bad food and water, get a few cases of it.

    A side note. My quality of life has improved under one doctor's care. But I feel rather sorry for the poor doc because he has both State, County and Federal Government crawling up his ### everytime he prescribes medicine that helps me in life. I cannot even fill some of those medicines without the State knowing about it in near real time. Which is why I go to strictly one doctor for that purpose.

    I have many doctors in my life. My phone directory lists about 20 in total, such as two dentists etc. But one only one is allowed to prescribe the medicines. The rest of them including my MD and Dentists etc refuse to prescribe anything for fear of interfering with the all mighty DEA who will jump down their shirts demanding a explanation. I propose a theory that due to Obamacare and the war on drugs, many doctors have been ... ##### slapped beyond submission to Uncle Sam intent on denying a entire United States anything at all in time of our lives. What's next? Banning Coffee? Who knows?

    I know this is a monster post. But I suspect this will become quite an issue because as a Trucker, I know better than anyone alive just how much Anti Diarrhea drugs it takes to keep the wheels rolling in places with really bad water or terrible uncooked or under cooked food. And think this will be the next big quiet issue that will affect all of us once dear Uncle Sam gets off his slumbering ### to do something about it.

    Good luck. BTW I don't take Imodium because it messes with my Heart (Now I know why....) timing. I use Keopectate which has absolutely NO "loperamide high" in the Keopectate. I am researching issues related to my heart because that is not a favorite way to exit this mortal world and am seeking to protect it as best as Im able because so many in my building have failed to do so and are experiencing life killing costs related to meds, surgery etc in a effort to buy a few more weeks, months of a life that is hardly a good quality one for most of them. Ive been told that Ive got a heart like a battleship and it's not going to be the one thing that will kill me thankfully. But I have always loved to learn as much as possible about body systems and how they work and why.

    Probably because there have been too many people God has taken from this world while they screamed and howled in agony waiting for the EMT to get there. Ive had enough of that to last me a life time.

    So there it is. Now you know.
     
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  2. RustyBolt

    RustyBolt Road Train Member

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    Well, ####!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2016
    Reason for edit: Don't bypass the censor.
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  3. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    Thank you sir. That was a great post.

    I did additional research into the Lope from Imodium AD and discovered that People were getting sick in the heart timings and ending up at the er. They usually do not confess (Nor do Tox screens test for Lope) to the ER doctor standing there wondering what the problem is.

    Here is an article from someone who actually got addicted and dependant on Lope and was resusicated a dozen times while fully awake with a heart in QT Failure. I consider this lengthly article an asset to help those of you considering the other side of those who tried to use Imodium to halt the withdrawal symptoms or get a legal high bypassing the doctors all together, only to discover additional problems.

    This might be useful to those of you truckers gobbling the Imodium during your day or night and getting sicker.

    https://madmargaret.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/loperamide-no-more-or-a-public-service-announcement/
     
  4. DustyRoad

    DustyRoad Road Train Member

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    Great, now the shelves will be empty of a bottle of relief....because a junky wants to get high.
     
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  5. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    That would be a very big possibility.

    I could not sleep this morning so I spent some time. Apparently there was a upstate new york clinic that had three deaths and several people who stumped the doctors there. They introduced a white paper into a national seminar about Imodium roughly 2013, FDA picked it up shortly after and it finally crossed over last month to where anyone in public thanks to the larger media organs are reading about this for the first time.

    I used a second computer and VPN Tunnel via proxy and read a bit of the darknet. Apparently they LOVE the Imodium very much as a defense against running out of medicine prior to refill day or a defense against doctors who have had enough and cut them off stone cold or literally running out of money and discovered that they can drink a proverbial gallon of Imodium and quinine (Anti mosquito parasite [malaria] in blood cell medicine... Ive had that as a infant, long story...) to prevent the brain from destroying whatever Imodium that crosses the blood brain barrier for those addicts determined to get a high.

    Humans and their way of understanding how something works and then become a sort of a 800 pound silverback demanding to be fed NOW in their addiction threaten the rest of us who use these things as a lawful purpose in bad water or bad food that cause the ####s.

    Further examination comes to find out the Lope in the Imodium AD was schedule 5 meprephine which is also known as Demerol... believe it or not. Makes me wonder if that stuff can be off label as a defense against migraine. I will know next week if I squash a migraine with a sip of the stuff. Beats going to the ER wondering if I have a tumor or something in the head while the doc shoves the stuff in a needle somewhere on my leg.

    You do bring up something worth considering. I wonder how fast the FDA will act on this problem which according to the tens to hundreds of thousands of posts on the darknet reveal a epic swarm of addicts buying imodium by the case in stores everywhere. I wonder how long it will be before that #### gets stopped. Literally.

    And when it does? Will there be a sort of barbarians at the gate issue when a mass of People hit the doctors demanding relief from trying to detox from Imodium?

    Trading soul for the devil to dance inside their addicted heads. I shake my head in amazement.

    And what of the Trucking Companies gonna do when they see a bottle of #### stop in your cab? You get fired? Or drug tested? IS that even possible? The more I think ahead about this, the more frightening the possibilities get upon the Industry.
     
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  6. RockinChair

    RockinChair Heavy Load Member

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    Kaopectate (bismuth subsalicylate) has always worked better for me anyway, so I keep a bottle of it in the truck.
     
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  7. G13Tomcat

    G13Tomcat Road Train Member

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    @x1Heavy . . . I've read thru your posts, articles, and I appreciate the time and research you put in to the above, as i'm sure many will. I do the Kao myself also, because the Immodium tends to stop me up for more than a day, and even though I'm not OTR, it doesn't make for a comfy day home.
    To elaborate (or, well, comment...) on some of the things mentioned in your posts, the implants. They are time-released bupe. Aka suboxone. Maybe this CAN help the heroin epidemic, maybe not. It's government heroin, in my eyes.
    I had someone EXTREMELY close to me, addicted to suboxone while getting off "legally Rx'd" opiates!~ This person became SO detached from family, kids, work, etc. . . being on that drug. Concentration, integration, and libido were robotic, if existent at all. Literally. Would work like a madman for hours at a time, then "pass out" upon the next dose... like the nods. Cigarette burns in many places.
    Person decided (with my help and a week off work on my part) to QUIT the suboxone cold-turkey on Easter last year, after taking their kids to church. The next week, months, almost 3/4 of a YEAR were HELL. The w/d's were worse than opioids, and although I have no first-hand knowledge, as bad as and longer lasting than herion. Said person lost JOB during W/D's. The PAWS (post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome) lasted MANY months, and I couldn't be there the whole time, but saw the pain, tremors, tears, and the EVENTUAL re-integration into society, life, the appreciation for music, good food, their kids' sports, etc. It was a gradual process that took many months. VERY many.
    Back to the subject, I don't have any faith in those implants. It's replacing one "street drug" with a very similar government-ized version of the same. These people become zombies. I've seen it. Until said / such person WANTS to TOTALLY abstain from any mind-altering chemicals, there's not much anyone can do, except offer rehab at AFFORDABLE prices, with comfort meds for the first few days or weeks. Said person above, had NONE, by choice. Eventual, choice.
    Not to mention, there's a thread on here somewhere with a Fedex driver caught with Suboxone. Whether it was legally prescribed to him or not isn't clear, but regardless. It's not acceptable in the industry. NOT a DOT approved drug.
    Quitting coldturkey may be the hardest thing one person (or every person!) has to do, but comes with the benefits of normal living, after many years of being in a haze.
    Sorry to hi-jack your thread about the Lope' but I'm with you there. Another "deadly" way for someone to get high, and take an OTR med that can help some of us and make it illegal.
    Best wishes to you with whatever's going on with your health; I wish you health. One never knows when their driving days will be numbered; I've cut back a lot since I've gotten older; will be 55 this year. I'm a one-doctor person, as well; Thank God I don't need any meds {yet} . . .
    If there's any thing you want to discuss further, pm me; have a great day, sir. I appreciate your wisdom and your truth be told posts. Always~
    Tom
     
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  8. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    I hear you. A great post.

    Shortly after I quit trucking I had a little issue in life at that time and a specialist prescribed xanax. Now... that stuff was not a problem in my specific situation as far as my life goes away from the big road. But I noticed immediately that I was making rookie mistakes while on it while driving a freaking car. I did not like it one bit. A little tiny car and here Im influenced by the tiny doses.

    I was told that eventually those doses will increase to tablets as big as your thumb and if you missed a dose the heart stops in a day.

    I told the specalist that I feel that particular medicine was coming from the Devil himself, trading a few hours no stress for something due later in blood someday. Specailist told me she has had thousands of patients and only three have stopped the xanax.

    Well I stopped. Cold turkey. This was late 2001. No big truck in sight I was done with that. Then. Unaware of the underlying medical damage I had accumulated which would be soon revealed with a sort of a panel of doctors tests, visits etc to evaluate my system. I feel fortunate.

    Now the quitting cold turkey that medicine, xanax was 3 months of cravings followed by 19 more months of nerve issues from the brain along the major pathways to the arms, legs and fingers with a twitch that would not quit. Eventually those stopped completely.

    People who are mediciated like that essentially do not have a life. They are going to be in a state (As you should know...) of not functioning. Zombies essentially. Then display behavior of addict seeking more if they get something of a high out of it.

    Suddenly I am seeing with a clear eye so many people taking medicines at the pharmacy and also at the VA in particular since 2001.. it's frightening.

    I was a very good trucker, one of the best if not a half outlaw myself at times as you readers will know from some of the stories I shared. But in those days there is nothing stronger than a pack of smokes and until 1994 a 6 pack for bad road. After 1994 things really got serious. But also improved greatly with air ride and so on. Today's trucks are amazing plush on a cloud on some of the worst roads. There is no reason to medicate.

    I have been examining Sub, Buds and Methadone and similar substances for those who are addicts or otherwise in a situation in life where they have had a horrible accident and find themselves dependant through no fault of their own.

    The Government has gone to such lengths to describe Sub, Buds and Methadone as a alternative pathways to getting high. That I do not understand. If these chemicals are when placed into a human body go after and fill all your pain receptors with inert plugs so to speak leaving you with no withdrawl symptoms and a chance at getting off the floor to do dishes, run errands and actually have a shot a life by going out to church or something.

    Why in the world would such a Government restrict so much these three items or any other medicines created in that family to help people in life so that life can be lived rather than endured with a thought towards suicide.

    As you readers know the suicide rate is rising because People feel that they have reached the end of the road and surely the Devil must be adding up the line of souls who ended themselves because there is no options left for them thanks to a overly restricted acts by the Government?

    Ever since I learned about this stuff yesterday and put together two and two to come up with a number between three and five I have been thinking about one thing in particular.

    What do I have to do to stop the doctors? I don't What I have in my own system is specifically chronic until the day I die. I don't intend to sit around zombied out unable to function. I fight. Im a warrior.

    But for every one of me who is a warrior, there are hundreds if not thousands who are lost. What about them? No one helps them.

    I have watched my family doctor stop prescribing medicines due to Obamacare from day one it got passed. The Government told him to start carrying a laptop asking all his patients irrevealnt questions such as gun ownership etc in that office. Any pain medicine he prescribed found himself in conflict with a DEA determined to halt that. No matter how small or how temporary.

    I watched my doctors such as dentists fail to prescribe anything that will trigger DEA. They are really afraid of them. So they don't Sure you get the big novacaine needle for a day and some gas. What then when you are at home at 2 am unable to rest? That as some of you well know is destructive.

    I have watched hospitals, ER's in particular do battle against patients who are seeking relief because the advil, moltrin (GI Joe Candy...) has ruined their stomachs and the pain or migraine is still present and they cannot function. Whole Counties hunt pain doctors and patients who fill prescriptions and check them over and over again. Any patient who goes to a second doctor or fills at a second pharmacy to obtain medicines or controlled substances prescribed to them are detected and then hunted by the State.

    Now....

    After all of that Im not blind to what the Nation has suffered and continue to suffer. If you go into Eastern Kentucky west virginia, tennessee and similar locations you will find whole towns addicted and dying to what they call Hillbilly heroin. When the doctors in those areas quit prescribing for very good reason to save lives, they hop in the car and travel out of state to bad doctors who will take cash money and prescribe all sorts of stuff.

    And the children. They get into the Medicine cabinet and grab the bottle of stuff and take it to school to experiment and recreate as they call it during middle school. Our middle school decades ago was nothing like that. Usually fast cars and hot females... among other things. But nothing like the hard stuff they are doing these days, even getting into the air conditioning units to access the gases which kill them on one breath for dead right then and there on the spot.

    I build computers because I am very good at doing that. Canned Air is part of a percentage of a addicted society among the young people who use it and similar substances to get a so called legal high similar to a dentist gas. I should not have to prove my grey haired elderly ### to the blue shirt at the big box trying to buy a couple of cans of air. I'll just run a hose to the air compressor now thank you very much....

    Who are they do stuff like that in our so called modern society? No wonder the Government is at a drug war against the People hurting anyone who has a valid claim to a doctor's care.

    If there is information to be had in factual form It's a valuable and good to the People to learn and understand what is killing them. I'll be ###### if the Government continues to crush those who do not need any more stress than what is already going to kill them in the beginning.

    I promised myself time and time again I would be moderate in my writings, But time and time again I think People need to hear and see what is what without any bull. And there is a awful lot of that already.
     
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  9. G13Tomcat

    G13Tomcat Road Train Member

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    You are EXTREMELY well-spoken, and have much to say of value. You are one of a chosen (or spoken) few that has taken a step to care about the war on drugs. I've heard that the benzo's are hard to get off of as well, but have no immediate knowledge, nor experience with them. I agree with you that if it's PRESCRIBED by a doctor, for a LIMITED amount of time, and the recipient is responsible, then all should fly right. I have heard about people that have numerous extractions, with no pain relief prescribed, and if they hurt that bad, they can find it on the street. I went to my dentist today with a clean bill of health, thank God, because DOT wouldn't approve any opioids, anyway. I've never been a fan. Last Rx I had for such was Tramadol, many years ago, before IT got scheduled out, also. Heck, if I DID have to have a root canal, I couldn't even take THAT for the pain, as humble as it is.
    I appreciate your writings, you post from the heart, not the hip.
     
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  10. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    Thank you again for your postings.

    I do recall before I was sent to the doctors who were going to run a series of tests to find the root cause of my problems from trucking (And boy did they find them...) my personal doctor bent over backwards with non narcotics. I remember tramadol and it caused tension in the household with myself and my wife due to it's expense. Celebrex was another. That one was very expensive. Something like 500 a month cash.

    Eventually the heart doctor detected damage possibly from Celebrex. If I wanted to I could sue them and get a pile of money. But I wont. What's the point?

    Not all medicines are good for you.

    DOT is not in a position to tell you that you cannot take pain medicine. If you were prescribed something for a couple of days for that tooth or whatever then you already know from your training that you will likely not be driving until you are drug tested again to prove that you are clean. Pain medicine onset to blood is two hours or so, salvia is about 15 to 30 minutes. And human hair is capable of holding the substances 90+ days. Your eyes display a myastigma I think it's called (Spelling) when you have alcohol or pain medicine in your system. It's the one big giveaway.

    Most people don't realize it. If you stopped the medicine after all that is over, it's out of your blood in 24 hours, and out of your salvia in 4 days or so depending on the exact nature of the medicine. Hair takes much longer. But for all intents, you are in withdrawal with the body, mind in day one through day 8 and it will take a few weeks for the brain and body to reset or try to reset to what it was before. Along with the puking, shakes, fevers, tremors, pain etc.

    Smoking was similar. Out of you in 6 days and it will be months and years before you can put it away.

    The Dentist is very good at providing for the pain during root canals. I had one last year It was a cool 1600 dollar procedure insurance covered 1200 of that. The percentage of nitrous to oxygen plus three large needles of pain medicine into the face was epic. But as promised there was no pain during the drilling and extraction of the actual nerves and blood supply to the tooth.

    Not to say it's a nap in the chair under that gas. It was a procedure that was endured at best.

    I was thinking last night about Pain Receptors in humans. When you adminster medicine to a human the body builds more receptors because it's nice for it to have or it tries to make sure that if something hurts you are going to feel it. I don't know the exact design of the receptors inside the body. However...

    An examination of them reveal that the knowledge of how to make a medicine that fills these pain receptors with something that is a plug that fits very well like a bolt to nut but provides nothing to the receptor therefore no high for you to enjoy. You are just there as before.

    You would think the Market place would provide for a inert medicine that does not provide any high at all to a human and fills all these receptors, shutting off your withdrawal symptoms that hurt you if you suddenly are cut off from actual medicine that is prescribed to you.

    (Im not even addressing illegal drugs.. you are introducing other things like battery acid, gasoline and so on into the body which is really destructive. The Russian Krokodil has cause people's arms to lose tissue and flesh leaving them with the actual exposed Bones itself and nothing else... that has got to be agony. Cut it off...)

    It's the behavior that is the problem, and those persons who need and require help to fight the withdrawal symptoms that are disabling and exacts a price on friends, family, job, boss, co workers and so on. Sometimes the symptoms are very destructive and require hospitalization.

    I was just on Cspan which is a programming I receive on my satellite all the time this morning and learned how the President of the Clinton Foundation bragged about how they removed Sugar snacks, sodas from the vending machines of about 37,000 schools. When a person attending a Hillary Clinton event fainted at a school due to low sugar issues, there was only orange juice to be found and lucky it helped this person. (Some orange juice....) and nothing sugar in sight on the property.

    I think and fear we are raising a generation of people coming out of school today that have been seeing everything and anything taken away from them. If they sit there in life and do nothing like sheep, they are going to find that when something bad happens and they need help there wont be much to be found.

    I wrote I think Im all done here unless someone has new information for me to think about. I would sum up this viewpoint in life particularly with the Obamacare and it's draconian rules these last several years.

    If you are a Patient, recieving Medicines that help you. You are a criminal. If you are a doctor who knows what medicines to provide to people who need them, you are a criminal.

    Anything that provides safe haven or rescue those who are suffering is being criminalized.

    #### it, Im beginning to think just living in the United States makes me a Criminal. Is that all where this is going? I refuse to accept that.
     
    G13Tomcat and NavigatorWife Thank this.
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