It would appear that as far as the unemployment issue we were all right and wrong. This is kinda hijacking, but I think its also valuable info we should all know.
Getting Fired And Unemployment Benefits
The possibility of Getting fired will always exist if you work for someone else, but we as American's seem to always think or believe that if we were fired unfairly, that we are the victim of wrongful termination.It is the doctrine of "at will employment", which is recognized by the United States that probably means you aren't the victim of a wrongful termination .. regardless of how unfairly you think you have been treated.
A wrongful termination involves violations of specified employment contracts and of course, the civil rights we all enjoy as Americans to not be discriminated against if we happen to be a member of a "protected class" .. and I think we all can fit into at least one of those.
The truth is, we can be fired for just about any arbitrary reason an employer can think of .. as long as it's not illegal .. which would make it a wrongful termination.
Getting Fired and Unemployment Benefits
Although I am not a lawyer and I don't know much about getting fired and wrongful terminations ..I do know about being fired and getting unemployment benefits.
Unemployment benefits, in a manner of speaking, are the only protection you and I have from unreasonable actions that the freedom of "at will employment" gives to employers and employees alike.
My experience with being fired has never been on a personal .. unless you count being laid off.
But, I know what I know because I worked in the unemployment appeal section of two different private corporations as a hearing coordinator.
It was a time sensitive job with lots of "deadlines" and responsibilities, but overall .. it was just a boring cubicle job.
My duties were to coordinate the efforts required to ensure that an unemployed person's ability to collect unemployment was denied, whether it be by virtue of an employer appeal or the unemployed person's appeal.
The problem for me was that I had to do this even if I knew the employer's case wasn't all that great and that the claimant should, by all rights, be allowed benefits.
The rarity I began to look for was the unemployed person that exploited these employer weaknesses to show that they were not fired for work related misconduct.
I can also tell you this. It's not as hard to receive unemployment when getting fired as it is when you quit a job.
When You're Fired The Employer Has The Burden To Prove Misconduct
When an employer fires an employee the legal burden to prove "good cause" belongs to the employer because he is the "moving party" or the one that ended the employment. The only good cause to fire someone from a job and deny them benefits is to prove Willful Misconduct.
What is Work Related Misconduct?
The truth is that not all people are fired for a reason that rises to the generally accepted legal definition of work related misconduct. It's also true that many employees never knew they should have been protecting themselves while an employee, in the event they might be caught in some bully manager's personal and unfair campaign to get rid of them or a corporate mandate to reduce labor costs in any way possible with the least amount of damage to a bottom line.
Fighting Back
Despite everything, it is easier to get unemployment when fired than when you quit a job because unemployment departments must be convinced by documents and sometimes verbal testimony, misconduct actually occurred. The state does not simply take an employer's word that you broke on his rules it is merely alleged to be misconduct. The state will investigate, but they are also very busy .. so it is quite possible that the initial determination may be wrong or as they like to call it .. erroneous.
The determination is easy to appealed by a party that disagrees. (You, the employer, or even the state).
Getting fired from your job does not mean you won't get unemployment!
If your employer wants to see you fired from your job he can do so for any reason he wants.
All states are "at will" employment states, with the possible exception of Montana. employment at will is a "doctrine" recognized by the United States which decisions and opinions consider. It is not a law. States may create laws which have the effect of creating a "public policy exception to the doctrine. What is employment at will? For the sake of brevity, I'll just say that it means you can quit your job or your employer can fire you for any reason he likes .. unless the reason conflicts with a law. This means that in states, aside from the one mentioned above, there is nothing you can do about being fired for any reason without good cause, except to file for unemployment unless the employer has infringed on your rights afforded by a law which creates an exception and then you might possibly have a valid lawsuit. And for that you should be talking to a lawyer.
Of course it doesn't follow that there will never be consequences for the employer if they fire you without cause. This is why there is unemployment benefits. Unemployment benefits is the solution provided by our government for losing a job when it wasn't your fault.
If you have been fired from a job and apply for unemployment it falls to him to show he had good cause and that needs to be "willful misconduct".
A definition for willful misconduct that has been adopted by many states is in Boynton Cab Company v. Neubeck (1941), 237 Wis. 249, 296 NW 636, the Supreme Court of Wisconsin stated:
"The term 'misconduct' as used in (the disqualification provision) is limited to conduct evincing such willful or wanton disregard of an employer's interest as is found in deliberate violations or disregard of standards of behavior which the employer has the right to expect of his employee, or in carelessness or negligence of such degree or recurrence as to manifest equal culpability, wrongful intent or evil design, or to show an intentional and substantial disregard of the employee's duties and obligations to his employer. On the other hand, mere inefficiency, unsatisfactory conduct, failure in good performance as the result of inability or incapacity, inadvertencies or ordinary negligence in isolated instances or good faith errors in judgment or discretion are not to be deemed 'misconduct' within the meaning of the statute."
Not all states use this definition, but they all use something similar. Check your state's code. Semantics do matter when misconduct is defined by a state.
He may have a sound business reason for firing you, but this is not adequate to be denied unemployment when you're fired from your job.
Many employers have a very hard time with this concept, but their advantage is that YOU are even more clueless about unemployment benefits.
If you were fired from your job for poor performance...they may protest it as neglect of duties, but they will have to prove it was intentional and not simple inability. But even though they do have the burden of proof, it is YOU that must make the state aware of why the employers contention of misconduct is incorrect.
Fired for being sick?...he calls it a rule violation, specifically "unacceptable attendance" but unless you failed to follow the employer's call off procedure or someone happened to witness you ummm...out and about having the time of your life....his protest will often be futile if you can prove through testimony AND/or documentation that the absences were beyond your control.
Fired from your job for refusing to follow a directive that was unsafe, illegal or flew in the face of common sense?.. he calls it insubordination unless you show the state the reasonableness of your refusal to follow instructions given by the employer.
Many people are denied unemployment benefits when they are fired as are most people denied benefits when they quit.
But more people that are fired and denied get unemployment after an appeal than those that quit.
Why is this so?
I have a theory, but again to keep me from jumping up on my soapbox .. let me just say that if you have some idea of how unemployment benefits work before the employment is terminated you get better results.
You know and I know, if you have been fired without good cause, (which is for a reason other than misconduct) you may have experienced things at work prior to being fired that made you consider quitting. Have you considered that this may have been intentional on the part of your boss?
Employers usually first try to create a record which they will use to fight your unemployment benefits .. just in case you don't quit. They then bank on your ignorance of how unemployment works in actuality.
American workers tend to be complacent about protecting themselves while still employed.
They then go forward with an unemployment claim with inadequate information as to how to actually combat an employer's contention of "misconduct".
I have answered a whole lot of questions with the intention of helping you understand how to get unemployment, why you might not be able to get unemployment, and suggestions as to what you can do because ultimately, it is your unique situation that matters.
I now offer consultations who still feel the need for more help understanding their unique situation.
Because being fired from your job does not always mean it was for misconduct .. if you know how to fight back.
My 1st accident!!:-(
Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by CertifiedSweetie, Jan 6, 2011.
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Good to hear that it has worked out for you
CertifiedSweetie Thanks this. -
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:smt078
Well, if there is ever a Pittsburgh/Cleveland rivalry again, it's going to feel worse than that vid for you. You'll be dreaming of a sea of Black and Gold...... or should we call it NIGHTMARES??
STEELERS ALL THE WAY!!!!
(BTW, you have the honor of being the recipient of my 1000th post)
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Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.
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