Personal Conveyance question while on your reset?

I never said you do interpretations, please read my comments above one more time. This is what I said to you. "By the way Moose, I respect the fact that you don't want to give out false information on the site. You and I are on the same page.....Thanks"
I said FMCSA keeps trying to interpret and clarify the regulations.

 

If you are paid by the mile and you move the 40 miles in the driection the loads going...you just got paid for that 40 miles. Imo this means pc is out. You got paid so you were working. Plus the guidance says a resonable distance. Going almost an hour up the road is not really reasonable. I believe in this case a better trip plan was in order.

If the op was my driver, i would decline the pc and suggest he/she learn how to build a better trip plan.

 

That my friend is never going to happen. I was thinking about this topic with regard to a drive-a-way shipment. I don't know if they still do this, but there used to be a truck body fab plant in Union City Indiana that made UPS delivery truck bodies. What about repos? In both cases, the trucks themselves IS the load. When the FMCSA or any federal rulemaking agency makes a rule they have to publish the proposed rule in the Federal Register for a formal comment period. Then they take these comments and concerns and account for them. The FMCSA is a bureaucracy! Bureaucracies are noted for 2 things. First, they almost never make a rule that does not have a footnoted exception AND they spend money. In the last year, I have sent the FMCSA 3 requests for guidance. THREE! Of those 3 I only got one reply and they replied by to refer back to the same rule I was asking for clarification on.

Then you have the CVSA that will interpret a vague rule and teach this to their members. In some ways, it is like the FMCSA and the CVSA have an incestuous relationship and the FMCSA does this on purpose. I do know that several carriers have been talking about bringing lawsuits against both the FMCSA and the CVSA but as of now, I have seen so movement.

I'm not going to bleed over into this thread HOS debates from other threads. However, this CVSA thing is why a lot of these horror stories are possible. I don't believe a story until I actually see the paperwork. So drive carefully, keep your mouth closed when stopped and stop wishing for things that are never going to happen. This is my best advice.

 

Not true.

Question 10: How does compensation relate to on-duty time?

Guidance: The fact that a driver is paid for a period of time does not always establish that the driver was on-duty for the purposes of part 395 during that period of time. A driver may be relieved of duty under certain conditions and still be paid.

- Section § 395.2: Definitions.​

As is also the case under the new Personal Conveyance Guidance when a driver runs out of time at a shipper’s and has to drive to a safe parking location; driving in the direction of the receiver is not going to negate the ability to use PC.

 

Well said Moose, well said. This is my current daily frustration with several of the agencies although the FMCSA and FHWA seem to be the worst.

By the way, I am a CVSA member and they are equallly as frustrated with the lack of clarity from FMCSA and their state partners.

 

You left out one word that puts it in a grey area again, and that is "reasonable". If you have one spot 15 miles the wrong way and another 20 miles the right way, it is reasonable to go 20 miles the right way to avoid adding 30 miles because it is 5 miles closer.

 

Argh!

You are giving great info. Please don't mess it up by using "safe haven" instead of "safe parking".

 

Boilerplate stacks of rules written in obscure legalise can be eliminated by two simple words.

Yes or no.

Or they can add a third option, if Motor Carrier approves such behavior.

Then shut up. The driver will have the PC and there is no confusion anywhere.

 

My point was that it does not matter if its a safe haven, or safe parking. You can still use PC.
Safe haven for Hazmat and explosives and any high value or load that has to be babysat 24/7, you can still use PC.

 

As was I for a time. However, IF some of the horror stories of DOT/CVSA/MCSAP officers using very highly technical points of 395 as terror weapons are really true this guidance is coming from CVSA, because it is they that are teaching them. As well as safety critters and compliance specialists. Now I'm not saying these stories are false. I'm just saying my baby blues have never seen examples. I suspect you and I along with many other old schoolers in these forums know for a fact this was not happening in the past. I see no change in 395 to account for it! So what happened? The only logical conclusion I can come up with lands on the CVSA's doorstep!