Poor pay

blacky · Dec 7, 2013

stevenneill said: ↑

I haven't read all the posts, but I wanted to respond to this. Perhaps I'll simply parrot what someone else wrote...If so, I apologize, like I said I haven't read most of the commentarfy here. You work in IT, right? IT is a technical field. It is a specialized field. It requires knowledge that is not easily or cheaply obtained. I.T. fields are rated fairly high in the pay scale. Its a white collar job. You know, suits, pressed shirts, nice cozy office, secretaries, that kinda thing. You guys program the computers that run our trucks...but you get a CDL as a fallback? And you expect...what? Is your idea of a trucker someone who is rolling in dough with a mansion on 50 acres of property, and a barn to park the rig in on weekends?

You are in a whole different field. Truckers are WORKERS. Trucking isn't a job, its a lifestyle, and one not meant for all. You know, the kind of lifestyle that puts you in a moving office where your bedroom, kitchen and office are a step away from your driver's seat. Its a lifestyle that consists of thousands of dollars worth of equipment you don't pay for, don't pay to maintain, and don't pay to keep legal. Its a job that requires you to work at odd hours, for long hours, sometimes without ever seeing your family and friends. What money you make is directly relevant to how good you do, how willing you are to work, and how difficult you can be. No, you will not start off making top pay, but in IT you didn't start at the top either, you started at the bottom. Drivers with years of experience making what they make can look down on us students and wannabe's and ask themselves..."Why would they do this for so little?" but deep inside they know...its not because we are trying to get rich, its because we love it, because we need something steady, a job we can depend on...for you this is a fallback...when the I.T. jobs come back you'll leave the truck and go back to your suits, and pressed shirts, and ties, in your nice corner of heaven, but for me, this isn't my fallback...this is just me. Making a living. No, I'm not making big money. Yeah, maybe my first year will only net me 35K...maybe less, but my second year will be better, as will my 3rd, 4th, 5th, and so on. I get to drive, which I love. I get to meet some great people, see great places, and I get that satisfaction of knowing that at least in this, I am free. You work for what you get. If you can't get that...then you wasted your money and time getting a CDL. I would lie if I said I didn't care about money. I have a wife and two kids. I have no savings, I have no money, My kids get very little for Christmas, but I am doing what I can for them, and maybe in time I will be making 60k a year and I can look in that side mirror while backing a trailer in 2k miles away and know I'm putting them in college. perhaps you should just look more into IT jobs. Move to silicone valley where the money is, just saying.
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Sorry, but the IT field you describe I've never seen in over 20 years of experience. IT training is available free from the internet or at your local library. Getting certifications is not overly expensive either. And, if you look at IT job ads they are looking for generalists who specialize in knowledge acquisition.

I've never heard of an IT office with a secretary or suits or pressed shirts. My last job at a huge Cloud company everybody wore shorts and t-shirts including the boss.

We were workers who oftentimes worked long and odd hours but we were paid for those hours. We used very expensive equipment that we didn't pay for as well. Our compensation was pegged to our productivity and quality which was micromanaged at least monthly. And, you have to love IT or you wouldn't put up with all the stress coming from all sides.

Btw, the IT jobs are not coming back. Not when we have to compete with people with no labor or environmental protection working in sweatshops. I'm no expert on the prospects in silicon valley but I have heard that the pay doesn't match up with the living expenses and outsourcing is endemic.

I would be very happy netting 35K. 3K net per month must mean you are making like 5K a month? You get like 4000 miles a week?

I understand people need to believe they're free but serfs literally had more free time.

blacky · Dec 7, 2013

Ridgeline said: ↑

The problem is when people talk about IT, even many within the industry don't get that it is BIG, a lot of things going on and no one person (especially if they are paid hourly) would see much of it.

Thank you for your post but don't worry my pretty little head about it? Sounds like I just need to trust Dear Leader and follow orders.
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blacky · Dec 7, 2013

Ridgeline said: ↑

It wasn't their greed that cause outsourcing, it is economics and how things work. No matter how you want to spin it, IT has evolved into a global thing where we lack many resources to compete, one really important problem is we produce people who can't do basic math or have basic language skills through our public schools and our institutes of higher learning. These people, even with masters degrees are not as good at math and even in some cases English that allow them to compete and win against the kid who passed his secondary school exam living outside of Mumbia India.

Sorry but I don't believe that greed can be separated from economics. Greed bought politicians who changed the laws which allowed the crash. I don't buy the idea that Americans don't have what it takes to compete. The playing field is not level. The idea that there are not enough qualified workers is spin to allow the importation of more H1B cheap workers. And the idea that
American students are especially bad is also spin. There's gold in them thar charter schools
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blacky · Dec 7, 2013

Victor_V said: ↑

Ha ha, Ridgeline.

Underpaid is underpaid.

Poor quality of life, health is poor quality of life, health.

HireRight enables abuse by retaliatory employers.

Your stick stuck.

Change needed.
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exactly my thought

blacky · Dec 7, 2013

Ridgeline said: ↑

It seems that way to many with a myopic view but the truth is we make it what we want it to be, no one forces anyone to do something they don't want to, no one is forced into this industry. I never thought of myself that I was a slave to any one company or any one profession, let alone selling myself into it or living cheaply because I had no choice. Pretty much I think your view is obtuse that shows a limited knowledge of what the industry's big picture is truly about.
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It's comforting to think we have choice but I doubt that grandma chooses to work in fast food except in the sense that it's better than starving under a bridge. Or the college grad with 50K in loans who chooses to live at home and work at walmart. On this very forum I've seen people describe themselves as coolies. Just because the chains aren't visible doesn't mean they aren't there.

If someone really applies themselves, learns what they can and takes advantage of opportunities with risks being weighed carefully, then one can do a lot of things and make a lot of money in a short period of time. But thinking you are a victim, under paid and all of that gets you no where.
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You're right that dwelling on victimhood gets you nowhere but recognizing there is a problem is the first step to solving it. Being willfully blind gets you nowhere.

But remember that this is a profession where experience and skills are important. If you can't get the skills or have poor ones or lack the experience, then of course you will end up driving as a company driver for little money.

Originally Posted by Victor_V
The public, if informed, would be outraged at the damage to quality of life and health drivers, backbone of the economy. If driver quality of life were on par with JIT freight, carriers would have to change their business model and end the 'disposable' driver practice

Really?

I think you need to look around, they don't give a crap. As long as their stuff gets to them, then it is ok with them that we suffer.

BUT that said, I think you need to look at the bigger picture too. I mean most of what goes on in our industry isn't this type of freight hauling. seriously.
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I think as long as the internet is free that there is hope that people will learn not to rely on corporate media for their info. I think people care when they are aware. Rather than being passive consumers they can become citizens.

I have no problem paying the bills and I have a lot of them. I think it is the same thing that has plague most of the country, people not being able to handle money in the first place. On top of that, as I said for many this is the last place they can go to for a job so of course they won't make it.

Again this isn't about politics, it is about a realistic view of the entire industry and just because you hold a grudge over being outsource doesn't mean that the entire country has been outsourced.
Still you are missing the entire fact that this has been going on for years, the ebb and flow of economical prosperity has been a fact of life since man has started to walk the earth.
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What hasn't been outsourced? Manufacturing has crashed. White collar is following as almost everything can be automated. Being aware is not the same as having a grudge. And economic prosperity is a political choice to a large extent.

RizenPhoenix · Dec 7, 2013

[QUOTE="Hang - Man";3697539]AAHH OOOHH --really maybe a Democrat can clear this all up --oohh crap, strike that.[/QUOTE]

They are just owned by a different set of Corporations. What we need is everyone to leave the democrat and republican parties and join/form parties that actually represent them rather then throw them a piece of red meat once in a while. If we could find a way to get PETA, public citizen, et al to get in the same room with the tea baggers and they kill each other off maybe we can start having things like an adult conversation and compromise to get this country working again.

Extreme4x4 · Dec 7, 2013

Just one small point. The term "living wage," is way overused these days. Nobody "deserves" a living wage. Those what earn a "living wage" work for it, and work hard for it. The person who's only skill is being able to suck air, while chewing gum, does not deserve to earn a "living wage." Most people start at the bottom, and work their way up to a "living wage."

It is a happy term that is being thrown around way too easily to simplify something that is far from simple. It is also used to create angst in the public perception war against anything and anyone who is successful in this country............... as in, "I am special, and deserve to have what you have worked so hard for just because I am."

Remember, if everyone earns a "living wage," nobody does. Think about it.

That said, in trucking you start at the bottom. If you decide to go to a poor paying Mega, then that is your decision. There are jobs for beginners that will earn you more money, but they are hard to find. See, they don't run constant ads for drivers because they don't need to. Drivers find them. However, even if you decide a Mega is the job for you, consider it paid on the job training. You have a lot to learn. You also have a lot to prove. Once you have that experience, and have proven your worth........... so to speak............ then you will be able to get an better job. In this industry, nothing will be handed to you. You will work for everything you earn. It is, however, an interesting job............. and is great if you hate being stuck in a building. There are VERY good jobs in this industry, you just have to work your way up into them.

Breaking pay down by the hour is simplistic and not fair to the job. Yes, you may make more per hour starting somewhere else. Please try to tell them that you want to work 70 hours, and get paid for all of it, and see what they say.

Oh, and as for getting paid for everything you do............... tell that to folks on salary. Many of them easily work as long of hours as we do, and more. They get paid nothing more, for the longer hours that they put in. Hours away from their family, and a lack of quality time at home. They come home, go to sleep for 5-6 hours, and start over again. There are many, many industries that pay in this manner.

We are only victims if we see ourselves as victims and allow ourselves to be victims.

OzzyOKC · Dec 8, 2013

lol, was just remembering what happened in Germany in the 30's. They had the two basic parties "Left and Right". The people got so fed up with thier failures they left in droves to the other two party options they had, the Nazi Party and the Communist Party...

I dont want to get any more political than that. I've turned my back on it all, just want to drive and get my boat to live on next year!

Lux Prometheus · Dec 8, 2013

blacky said: ↑

Ridgeline said: ↑

The problem is when people talk about IT, even many within the industry don't get that it is BIG, a lot of things going on and no one person (especially if they are paid hourly) would see much of it.

Thank you for your post but don't worry my pretty little head about it? Sounds like I just need to trust Dear Leader and follow orders.
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........
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Lux Prometheus · Dec 8, 2013

Ridgeline said: ↑

Sorry for the long post, I will try to be brief with my thoughts and comments. I tried to make these quotes in order to get what you guys are saying.

The problem is when people talk about IT, even many within the industry don't get that it is BIG, a lot of things going on and no one person (especially if they are paid hourly) would see much of it.

It wasn't their greed that cause outsourcing, it is economics and how things work. No matter how you want to spin it, IT has evolved into a global thing where we lack many resources to compete, one really important problem is we produce people who can't do basic math or have basic language skills through our public schools and our institutes of higher learning. These people, even with masters degrees are not as good at math and even in some cases English that allow them to compete and win against the kid who passed his secondary school exam living outside of Mumbia India.

It seems that way to many with a myopic view but the truth is we make it what we want it to be, no one forces anyone to do something they don't want to, no one is forced into this industry. I never thought of myself that I was a slave to any one company or any one profession, let alone selling myself into it or living cheaply because I had no choice. Pretty much I think your view is obtuse that shows a limited knowledge of what the industry's big picture is truly about.

If someone really applies themselves, learns what they can and takes advantage of opportunities with risks being weighed carefully, then one can do a lot of things and make a lot of money in a short period of time. But thinking you are a victim, under paid and all of that gets you no where.

But remember that this is a profession where experience and skills are important. If you can't get the skills or have poor ones or lack the experience, then of course you will end up driving as a company driver for little money.

This isn't the reason for the eventual change nor is it even the change in the industry, I mentioned why, it is because information flow became easy <<<=== that was the biggest reason for any change.

The JIT system you describe is old, decades old and the hub system was the system they used with rail freight. JIT, which has been around for 100 years (Ford used it when he built the Model T and they used it during the war) has been refined at best to save time in the past but it was refined to a science so to speak in the last 20 years because of the way we handle information now. It has not been so severely pushed as it in the past 10 years by looking at what is sitting at some of these plants today.

Really?

I think you need to look around, they don't give a crap. As long as their stuff gets to them, then it is ok with them that we suffer.

BUT that said, I think you need to look at the bigger picture too. I mean most of what goes on in our industry isn't this type of freight hauling. seriously.

I have no problem paying the bills and I have a lot of them. I think it is the same thing that has plague most of the country, people not being able to handle money in the first place. On top of that, as I said for many this is the last place they can go to for a job so of course they won't make it.

Again this isn't about politics, it is about a realistic view of the entire industry and just because you hold a grudge over being outsource doesn't mean that the entire country has been outsourced.
Still you are missing the entire fact that this has been going on for years, the ebb and flow of economical prosperity has been a fact of life since man has started to walk the earth.

We can interject politics into it but the truth seems to be that trucking isn't run by a few trucking companies, it is run by outside industries that it services of which is done by many different types of services made up of a lot of companies and a lot of people. We asked for deregulation which opened the flood gates to having thousands of companies come into existence and saturating the field, which drove down prices at first but then something else happened ===> going back to the idea that information is king, we got easy access to all the info we ever could use or want and that is a major cause of what we face.

Nope I've seen both sides of the fence, I understand what the problems are and in this case we allowed ourselves to become 'victims" of our own progress and wanted to be left alone to make the money we can make. No more are we or could we be a unified force because we look at this as a job, not a career, not as a profession and we let others deal with fighting for us while we can't come to grips with why we are not being paid well.

Nope that won't help. No one gets blackballed in this industry like my previous one. The 'megas' make up a small percentage of trucks on the road, even though it looks like they don't and they don't dictate the rules. Just like hireright isn't used by everyone, I have yet to have a company pull my DAC report and I've been with a few, so there are always jobs there for someone who needs work.

I will repeat my post here.
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