Signing my log book

395.8 (k) Retention of driver’s record of duty status. (1) Each motor carrier shall maintain records of duty status and all supporting documents for each driver it employs for a period of six months from the date of receipt.
(k)(2) The driver shall retain a copy of each record of duty status for the previous 7 consecutive days which shall be in his/her possession and available for inspection while on duty

Freedom, this is the charging section when you meet the out of service criteria ( just so you understand, 395.13 is the out of service section.)


Now read 395.13. Oh it says drivers declared out of service. The exeception states if your not current on the day of examination and the previous day your allowed to make the book current to AVOID BEING PLACED OUT OF SERVICE.


§395.13 Drivers declared out of service.

(a) Authority to declare drivers Out of Service. Every special agent of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (as defined in Appendix B to this subchapter) is authorized to declare a driver out of service and to notify the motor carrier of that declaration, upon finding at the time and place of examination that the driver has violated the out of service criteria as set forth in paragraph (b) of this section.

(b) Out of Service criteria. (1) No driver shall drive after being on duty in excess of the maximum periods permitted by this part.

(b)(2) No driver required to maintain a record of duty status under §395.8 or §395.15 of this part shall fail to have a record of duty status current on the day of examination and for the prior 7 consecutive days.

(b)(3) Exception. A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current.

Now lets look at 395.8


(f) The driver’s activities shall be recorded in accordance with the following provisions:

(f)(1) Entries to be current. Drivers shall keep their record of duty status current to the time shown for the last change of duty status.

Those are two (2) seperate regulations. Good luck with your way of thinking.

 

Freedom, let me ask you this question since your the expert. A driver is behind on his log book for 5 days. Driver is place out of service for this. Driver then "catches up his log book" and makes it current. Is he now allowed to start driving or has to stay out of service?

 

Signed or not you are still responsible for what's on the page!

If the page is unfinished because your day is not complete all your signature means is that all entries made to that point are true.
If they're not you are gonna get a citation regardless of the book being signed or not if the cop can verify that you made false entries...

Correct on all counts!

 

Question: Would you sign any legal document before it was finished?

 

This is not exactly a home mortgage, nor is it a PGA scorecard.
I'm still waiting for a rational explanation on why it matters.
Like blackw900 just correctly stated, if they find a reason to give you a violation, it's not going to matter if you have signed it or not.

 

Oh Diesel Bear,

§395.13 Drivers declared out of service. (a) Authority to declare drivers Out of Service. Every special agent of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (as defined in Appendix B to this subchapter) is authorized to declare a driver out of service and to notify the motor carrier of that declaration, upon finding at the time and place of examination that the driver has violated the out of service criteria as set forth in paragraph (b) of this section.
(b) Out of Service criteria. (1) No driver shall drive after being on duty in excess of the maximum periods permitted by this part.
(b)(2) No driver required to maintain a record of duty status under §395.8 or §395.15 of this part shall fail to have a record of duty status current on the day of examination and for the prior 7 consecutive days.

(b)(3) Exception. A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current.

(c) Responsibilities of motor carriers. (1) No motor carrier shall:
(c)(1)(i) Require or permit a driver who has been declared out of service to operate a commercial motor vehicle until that driver may lawfully do so under the rules in this part.
(c)(1)(ii) Require a driver who has been declared out of service for failure to prepare a record of duty status to operate a commercial motor vehicle until that driver has been off duty for the appropriate number of consecutive hours required by this part and is in compliance with this section. The appropriate consecutive hours off-duty may include sleeper berth time.
(c)(2) A motor carrier shall complete the "Motor Carrier Certification of Action Taken" portion of the form MCS-63 (Driver-Vehicle Examination Report) and deliver the copy of the form either personally or by mail to the Division Administrator or State Director, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, at the address specified upon the form within 15 days following the date of examination. If the motor carrier mails the form, delivery is made on the date it is postmarked.
(d) Responsibilities of the driver. (1) No driver who has been declared out of service shall operate a commercial motor vehicle until that driver may lawfully do so under the rules of this Part.
(d)(2) No driver who has been declared out of service, for failing to prepare a record of duty status, shall operate a commercial motor vehicle until the driver has been off duty for the appropriate number of consecutive hours required by this part and is in compliance with this section.
(d)(3) A driver to whom a form has been tendered declaring the driver out of service shall within 24 hours thereafter deliver or mail the copy to a person or place designated by motor carrier to receive it.
(d)(4) §395.13 does not alter the hazardous materials requirements prescribed in §397.5 pertaining to attendance and surveillance of commercial motor vehicles.
[44 FR 34963, June 18, 1979, as amended at 47 FR 53392, Nov. 26, 1982; 51 FR 12622, Apr. 14, 1986; 53 FR 18058, May 19, 1988; 53 FR 38670, Sept. 30, 1988; 53 FR 47544, Nov. 23, 1988; 60 FR 38748, July 28, 1995; 68 FR 22516, April 28, 2003; 70 FR 50073, Aug. 25, 2005]

Take notice how the EXCEPTION covers both 395.8 & 395.15 ,but yet you still try to twist it! If you are two days or less behind you have to be given the chance to make it current. If you make it CURRENT,and you are LEGAL How can anyone write a ticket for not being current since the regs allowed you to catch up you are now CURRENT & LEGAL!

Oh yeah you don't sign the log until you are sure it is legal,and correct,because it is a Federal document,and if you are involved in a wreck,and it is a false log they will use your log as evidence against you,and they will hang you. When you get to court it will be the same as any legal document that you sign,or don't. So you pre trip at 0800 & you sign all entries are correct. Now you don't touch the log until 1600,and you have a wreck your going to be eaten alive ,because you signed it. The lawyer will tell the jury here is exhibit A which the driver signed as true,and correct yet we have no idea what that is! I know you will make the log current before the cops & Dot get there. What if you are hurt,or worse,and can't. The record will stand. You are better off to have no log book,than a false one!

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[/QUOTE] So you pre trip at 0800 & you sign all entries are correct. Now you don't touch the log until 1600,and you have a wreck your going to be eaten alive ,because you signed it. The lawyer will tell the jury here is exhibit A which the driver signed as true,and correct yet we have no idea what that is! I know you will make the log current before the cops & Dot get there. What if you are hurt,or worse,and can't.[/QUOTE]

OK, same scenario, except you haven't signed it.
How does that change anything?
The signature verifies that the entries are true and correct. It is not verifying an entry that doesn't exist, because there is no entry.
If the driver was operating illegally(they don't need a log book to figure that out, as we all know), are you saying the jury will overlook that because of a lack of a signature?

 

Well Freedom, I guess your so intelligent you have failed to read the earlier posts about signing your log book and how it does not matter. Go back and read post #30. Let me give you question 3 from the interpretation of 395.8, read this carefully. do not skim over it as you may miss an important lesson.

Question 3: If a driver’s record of duty status is not signed, may enforcement action be taken on the current day’s record if it contains false information?

Guidance: Enforcement action can be taken against the driver even though that record may not be signed. The regulations require the driver to keep the record of duty status current to the time of last change of duty status (whether or not the record has been signed). Also, §395.8(e) states that making false reports shall make the driver and/or the carrier liable to prosecution


Freedom, go back and read the sentence in red. I think this is what I have said all along, but you being the expert you are confusing 395.8 and 395.13.


Question #24 also speaks of a signature. Here it is:
Question 24: When must a driver complete the signature/certification of the driver’s record of duty status?

Guidance: In general, the driver must sign the record of duty status immediately after all required entries have been made for the 24-hour period. However, if the driver is driving at the end of the24-hourperiod,he/shemustsign during the next stop. A driver may also sign the record of duty status upon going off duty if he/she expects to remain off duty until the end of the 24-hour period.


I could care less when you or anyone else signs the log book. When the driver hands me the book on the side of the road, a signature is not needed. What is in that log book should only come from you, as no one else is allowed to write in the log book. Enforcement action is taken and will still be taken whether or not it has a signature. Now when you turn your logs into the company they are going to check and verify a signature is there, so if audited they can be in compliance.

 

I would not want your job.

Especially after reading this thread and what you have been dealing with.

 

The way I interpret the Exception is even though you are allowed to make yourself current, you could still be violated (ouch) by not being current at the time your log is inspected because at the time of inspection, you were not current