Starting a Frac Sand Hauling Business

Discussion in 'Tanker, Bulk and Dump Trucking Forum' started by Safeclean Services, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. Safeclean Services

    Safeclean Services Bobtail Member

    24
    8
    Dec 24, 2011
    Northeast PA
    0
    Hi
    We're looking into Frac sand hauling here in PA and
    NY state when new drilling opens up. We are actually a trade
    show logistics company ,and we also run flatbed ,and haul construction
    demolition in a new Titan walking floor upstate NY(That's what I do most of the year).I run the walking floor and some of the flatbed
    End of the business for the company.I live in Northeast PA and have been watching the boom in the gas drilling in PA in the last few years
    and the owner of the company is interested in getting involved in it. We also have a couple of tri-axle dump trucks mostly sitting .Having talked to a lot of people ,and researched rates and different types of trucking
    involved,we are leaning towards hauling Frac sand. I see the vacuum water tankers (tractor trailer) sitting a fair amount ,and it seems like the tri axle vacuum trucks (straight trucks) work more ,but a new one is $180k and it seems there is a lot of companies involved already and what I am told it has affected the rates and work available,and there is a possibility of the industry turning to using propane to Frac in the
    future due to the political and environmental issues concerning using
    Millions of gallons of water per well and the toxic chemicals used.This
    is the big issue holding up the drilling in NY state. It looks like the Frac
    sand hauling is the end of the business we will be getting into. It seems
    no matter what the use to Frac they still need the sand or synthetic propant to inject into the fractures in the shale so the gas will flow.
    I have talked to a couple of companies and the pay structure per load and Demurrage (waiting time pay) seem to make it a good paying situation (for now,I have heard Schneider is gearing up to enter the
    Business,and some gas companies are going to be buying their own trucks) .This will I am sure will hurt the rates ,but with the massive amount of work projected over the next 20 years especially when NY starts and more states start drilling the trucks will spread out more
    and the rates hopefully will be decent.The major problem now is the
    major shortage of Bulk tankers.Most manufacturers are backordered
    a year or two with some having 140 trailers on backorder.
    Used trailers are scarce and commanding top dollar if you can find
    one.I see People selling late 70's and 80's trailers for $30k to $40k .
    God Bless them ,supply and demand ! I have a friend starting next month and he is leasing a trailer for $2500 a month and
    paying $7000 to have a blower installed on his truck. But his projections
    of $50k a month in revenue (until some big national players kill
    the current rate to saturate the market) make it worthwhile. My. company is currently looking for a trailer or two and has the means
    to buy new if any were available.They also just bought me a new 2012 heavy hauler KW W900 ,550 cummins,46k rears,full lockers,leather interior for my current work (I currently drive a 2007 379 Pete ,475 Cat,46k rears). We run 102k gross with a over weight permit in NY state when hauling C&D ,and the day cabs are easier when I have to go into NYC and work the trade shows,especially backing van trailers in on the blind side off of 54st packed with cars into an underground. Loading dock.The owner realizes he will have to put a sleeper on the new W900
    when we start hauling Frac sand ,since a sleeper is mandatory to get hired due to the hours and nature of the work.Anyone here
    hauling Frac sand in PA here and have any insight you would like to share ? I have thought about going back to being an O/O
    I have owned trucks before,but have been with my current company
    for 11 years,and they pay me good ($27hr )treat me great ,let me run my own show,and the owner treats me like a partner more than an employee,but a partner
    who does not have to make payments,fuel,repairs ,insurance,
    etc and my paycheck is always there ,while he is always having to chase money. But in return he gets an employee with a clean license,25 years
    Driving experience,who works on his truck in my shop(small repairs and maintenance ),washes the truck daily. I also own 2 service trucks equipped with air compressors,welders,tools etc. and takes care of all the day to day problems for him.For him that is priceless and it works for both of us.

    Sorry about the long winded post!

    Anyone want to chime in about hauling Frac Sand?
     
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  3. casl37

    casl37 Bobtail Member

    12
    1
    Dec 24, 2011
    san antonio, texas
    0
    Hello,

    I'm doing similar research in the south Texas area with the Eagle Ford boom. I have similar concerns regarding future supply and demand. I'd hate to make the investment only to have hundreds of new pneumatics running driving the rates down, or a big company walmart-ing our way out. #I drove the major highway near the area and counted 20 pneumatics in just over an hour.#

    I can invest in a couple of fully equipped trucks, but I'd like to have a better idea of the rates and the amount of work out there. What are the rates like in PA? In an ideal world I'd like to have a contract in place, or close to it, before signing for the pneumatics. I believe I have a good connection and could get them without having to wait in a line behind 140 back orders. This would help beat the rush, but I'm still blind regarding the amount of work in the south Texas area for the very specific task of frac sand transport. # ##

    Does anyone know reputable companies around San Antonio that would be willing to contract for one or two trucks with expectations of a least a year of business? Does anyone else want to chime in?#

    Thanks in advance,

    Casl37
     
  4. Safeclean Services

    Safeclean Services Bobtail Member

    24
    8
    Dec 24, 2011
    Northeast PA
    0
    Hi
    The rates are a mixture of per load and waiting time. I was told
    By the company involved the trucks are averaging $12k a week
    with the majority of the revenue being waiting time. I spoke to
    a driver the other day who t
     
  5. Safeclean Services

    Safeclean Services Bobtail Member

    24
    8
    Dec 24, 2011
    Northeast PA
    0
    The driver told me he recently had to wait 52 hours on the well
    site before unloading.You don't get paid for the first 2 hours,but
    get paid for every hour after that.I was told there are a fair amount
    of trucks in PA from Texas due to the drought in Texas that has slowed the
    drilling down somewhat there.
     
  6. casl37

    casl37 Bobtail Member

    12
    1
    Dec 24, 2011
    san antonio, texas
    0
    Thanks, safeclean.#

    I am hoping to be in operation early next year (still an hour to go here). Any leads to companies who are leasing with steady work around the area?#

    I was hoping to have the company hire the driver, although from reading this forum there seems to be very competent drivers in the area willing to work. ##

    O/O also seem prevalent around. I feel at a slight disadvantage as I would only be providing the equipment and don't know what kind of profit would be left after paying the necessary expenses. #Any thoughts on this?

    I hope everyone is having a safe and fun new years eve!

    Casl37
     
  7. Logan76

    Logan76 Crusty In Training

    4,525
    17,650
    Jul 12, 2009
    kittanning, PA
    0
    I haul water, we run hand in hand with the sand cans and with us and them their is ALOT of down time where we sit on the pad staged and waiting. From what I have heard it's very cut-throat up here hauling sand but much worthwhile due to the high rates. I personally can tell you to toss a decent sized sleeper on that w900 because sitting on a well site for 50+ hours in a 36" sleeper is NO fun.
     
  8. greghout

    greghout Bobtail Member

    5
    0
    Jan 1, 2012
    0
    Wishing all of u great health and higher margin's in the new year. Wishing you all great health and higher margin's in the new year. Wishing all of u great health and higher margin's in the new year. Wishing you all great health and higher margin's in the new year. :biggrin_25520:bigwish that the DOT, EPA. andthat joke Ohbuma stay am@on vacation in Hawaii for:biggrin_2551: the rest of his only term we would be better off or at least rid of him.To all my brothers in the ND oilpatch I wish u the veru best,Wishing all great health and higher margin's in the new year. _ wish that the DOT, EPA. andthat joke Ohbuma stay am@on vacation in Hawaii for the rest of his only term we would be better off or at least rid of him.To all my brothers in the ND oilpatch I wish u the veru bestWishing all of u great health and higher margin's in the new year. Wishing you all great health and higher margin's in the new year. :biggrin_25519Wishing all of u great health and higher margin's in the new year. Wishing you all great health and higher margin's in the new year. :biggrin_25519: wish that the DOT, EPA. andthat joke Ohbuma stay am@on vacation in Hawaii for the rest of his only term we would be better off or at least rid of him.To all my brothers in the ND oilpatch I wish u the veru best,Wishing all great health and higher margin's in the new year. _: wish that the DOT, EPA. andthat joke Ohbuma stay am@on vacation in Hawaii for the rest of his only term we would be better off or at least rid of him.To all my brothers in the ND oilpatch I wish u the veru best,Wishing all great health and higher margin's in the new year. _,Wishing all great health and higher margin's in the new year. _
     
  9. FREEBRD

    FREEBRD Medium Load Member

    499
    116
    Oct 18, 2007
    Lafollette tn
    0
    I have a friend starting next month and he is leasing a trailer for $2500 a month and
    paying $7000 to have a blower installed on his truck. But his projections
    of $50k a month in revenue (until some big national players kill
    the current rate to saturate the market) make it worthwhile.
    THIS WHOLE THREAD SOUNDS WHACKED!
    DUDE U LIVE IN SAN ANTOINE! GET OUT AND ASK! DUH!!
    ARE U GUYS FKIN NUTS!
     
  10. FREEBRD

    FREEBRD Medium Load Member

    499
    116
    Oct 18, 2007
    Lafollette tn
    0
    PUT THE PIPE DOWN! INCOHERENT RAMBLING!:biggrin_2554:
     
    benthere and Tardis Thank this.
  11. Tardis

    Tardis Light Load Member

    211
    117
    Nov 6, 2011
    banned or retired
    0
    Schneider is moving to the oil patch. They have already contracted with Schlumberger. I don't think that sand is part of the picture yet but I could be mistaken and that could change.
     
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