Stupid Question

Guvhog · Sep 9, 2013

handlebar said: ↑

Rainmaker,
At the risk of beating a dead horse (or at least one that's been whupped pretty well already), you've gotten a bunch of great answers here. If I may kinda cherry-pick a couple that sum up my own opinion as a commercial radio tech (from VLF to around 2 GHz in operating frequency), the radios I've had on my bench that get characterized as "big radio sound" are the ones that have the cleanest transmit sound (as noted above by others) without being able to be heard on adjacent channels, and *without* a lot of "swing". A radio that has a deadkey of 2 watts but magically puts out 15 or 20 watts on very loud input into the microphone is, by definition, overmodulating, one consequence of which is splattering over many channels' worth of bandwidth. If your output power increases by more than 50% on the loudest sustained input into the microphone (typically a loud voice), then you're exceeding 100% modulation, and all that extra power is going out on frequencies other than what you're dialed up on, essentially wasting it AND interfering with people on other channels.
Typically the only good reason for lowering your output power is if you're using an external amplifier that cannot with withstand more than one or two watts (RM Italy amps come immediately to mind).
An early-ish sign of a "big radio" was the use of the echo board that Connex uses in their popular line of export (i.e., unlawful for use in the U.S.) radios. The echo was done well, and so add-on Connex-style audio boards became available to put into other radios not so equipped from the factory.

Without knowing precisely what was done to your existing radio when it was "tuned, peaked, and modded", it can be hard to know just what was done to it. If part of the "magic" that was done to your radio was clipping or otherwise disabling the transmit audio limiter, then it will be hard for you to tell when your radio is running out of spec unless you've got an oscilloscope hooked up while you're operating and know how to read it correctly.

As has also been accurately pointed out, regardless of what you can do at your end, if "the other guy" has a sub-par radio (like one that was badly mistuned by an incompetent tech) and his/her/its antenna system is a two- or three-footer with poor coax and corroded connectors, the entire "communications circuit" is compromised, as *both ends* of the conversation must have everything optimized as much as possible to make use of a finite amount of radio energy being transmitted by either end and intended to be received at the other.

Changing a couple of output transistors so that the radio can strangle 5 or 6 watts out instead of the stock 4 watts, even if the rest of the radio has properly tuned, will never produce a difference that will be heard on the air. Putting on an amplifier that will put 200 or 300 watts into the antenna system will get your signal out a little farther, but won't do anything to help your receive, so unless you're running a broadcast station that doesn't expect to hear any replies, like "I ain't got no panties on," or "We've got everything you big truckers need right here at exit 69," then even if you can be heard 20 miles away, you still won't hear the other guy/gal/thing once he/she/it is more than 4 or 5 miles past you. And if he/she/it is going the other way, you'll be out of two-way range in about 3 minutes anyway. If you're heading the same direction and are within 5 miles of one another, there shouldn't be any reason to need an amplifier. If it's a long chat, there *are* 39 other channels.....

Adding an amplifier to your radio may help the other guy/gal/thing hear you better, but will do nothing for your reception of his/her/its signal if it's degraded by 70 or 80% at his/her/its end.

But keeping your signal as clean as possible, with the transmit limiter adjusted and enough mic audio (possibly by a power mic) to keep your average modulation above 90%, and as tall a resonant antenna as you can fit on your rig, with a decent counterpoise (metal roof, or plastic roof lined with metallic mesh or foil), will do amazing things with stock power, and will keep your signal symmetrical with others who've put their $$ correctly into decent antenna system(s) and clean installations, transmitter AND receiver properly aligned. I typically get 8 to 10 miles range between my non-big-truck mobiles around town or when caravanning, and up to as much as 20 miles to my base station -- all at legal power. But then I've got the gear and the experience to make sure everything is running right, too. And I learned long ago while doing live sound for concerts (sometimes on stage, sometimes running the sound) that echo and reverb actually distort voices, making them harder to understand under noisy conditions. (They're used during music recordings to help correct small differences between when the instruments start or end a note and when the vocalist attempts the same thing.) But when the singer/announcer has to speak to the crowd without the music going, the echo/reverb get turned off so they can be heard clearly.

Same thing on the radio. When you need to be heard accurately, turn off anything that makes your voice sound "odd". If anyone asks if you're using a big radio, you can always say, "Yup," and go into detail about the antenna which appropriately got the money put into it that otherwise could have been wasted on a poorly designed solid state amplifier.

Nothing I like better than *not* seeing a radio come back into the shop to have something re-fixed because everyone is complaining to the customer about sounding rotten. Even better is when the customer brings in another radio to have the same treatment, or someone who heard an existing customer's radio on the air and wants his radio to sound that good.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. People keep telling me that when they ask me what time it is, I tell them how to build a clock....

73

P.S. I'd keep what you have, but maybe sometime when you're around a shop that has more bench equipment than an inexpensive wattmeter AND a tech who can explain what the gear is for (briefly -- time is money), have the radio checked to see if whatever was done in that 3-part "peaked. tuned. and modded" was actually beneficial. I've noted a great tendency to believe that any work that adds $20 or $40 to the price of a new radio is likely to be....ummmm.... misspent.
Click to expand...

I'd like to ask a question of you myself. I run a Cobra 29LTD that has a Dead key output of 2 watts with a swing to 6 watts and a Palomar Elite 250 Amplifier. My question is will that low of a swing output cause the splattering you mentioned???

MsJamie · Sep 9, 2013

Anything over a 2:1 "swing" is overmodulating, so yes, you are causing some "splatter". Not as bad as the 10:1 that Handlebar mentioned, but I doubt that you sound any better or talk any farther than a stock 4 Watt radio.

Guvhog · Sep 10, 2013

MsJamie said: ↑

Anything over a 2:1 "swing" is overmodulating, so yes, you are causing some "splatter". Not as bad as the 10:1 that Handlebar mentioned, but I doubt that you sound any better or talk any farther than a stock 4 Watt radio.
Click to expand...

I've received many compliments about how loud and clear it is and I've never had any complaints about it causing problems for anyone.

Turbo-T · Sep 10, 2013

Guvhog said: ↑

I've received many compliments about how loud and clear it is and I've never had any complaints about it causing problems for anyone.
Click to expand...

This is one of those things you have to take with a grain of salt. Everyone has their perception of what it's clear/loud....some think your radio has to have a "crunchy" sound to it...but only on a scope will you know how much of the signal is being wasted.

Mr. Jay · Sep 10, 2013

When I did Pro-Audio, I would constantly get into arguments with kids over their guitar amps. "Man, I have to run it this loud! It has that tone..." I would commonly reply with "That 'tone' is distortion, and it sounds like ####."

We came up with an adage: "Loud is easy: You can buy loud. Good? That takes talent."

mike5511 · Sep 11, 2013

You can't really trust the "new guys" out there to give you a useful radio check. You need to do it with somebody you know and can trust.....and actually knows what "good" is.

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