Texas HOS vs. U.S. HOS

I agree with you, the Texas (or any other state) intrastate rules only apply to loads that meet the definition of intrastate. Keep in mind it it the intended destination, not just your segment of the haul that determines if a load is interstate or intrastate. This is why even UPS package trucks doing the final mile to people's houses have to follow all the interstate rules.

Here is the definition of interstate commerce from Part 390.5, this and only this determines if you have to comply with interstate or intrastate rules, except in a few excluded intercity zones but that isn't what your safety man is referring to.

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States—

(1) Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);

(2) Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or

(3) Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.

Intrastate commerce means any trade, traffic, or transportation in any State which is not described in the term “interstate commerce.”

 

He is correct. You can run Texas HOS in the state. If you leave the state, you switch to U.S. HOS and must stay on U.S. HOS until you do a 34 reset, at which point you can go back to Texas HOS as long as you're back in the state of Texas.

This is how I always run my logs with 2 recent DPS log inspections with no discrepancies found.

 

Wrong. Just because the officer didn't give you a citation doesn't mean he could not have. As the answer above you, the whole trip of the product is what matters.

For example if you pick up a container in Laredo (from Mexico), and deliver and deliver to Dallas it's federal rules as it's cross border. If you pick up sand in Waco and deliver to a well in Midland, that's Texas rules.

 

Okay. I don't haul any cross border freight. Intrastate turns to interstate when I cross state lines. Goes back to intrastate when I reset within the state of Texas, which is where I begin and end my day every day. Until I reset, I have to run interstate even though I'm staying in Texas and not crossing any state lines. This is legal per both Texas DPS and New Mexico state patrol. Maybe if the OP is picking up out of country freight, things would be different but that wasn't specified in the original post.

 

One magic word.

INTRASTATE. As in TEXAS Loading and driving only inside Texas UNLOADING. Strictly intrastate.

I hope you like those rules. When you cross the line out of the Republic of Texas into the rest of America you have to follow Federal DOT INTERSTATE HOS rules. Even if you started your day loading IN Texas. But if's going to Jersey.. guess what. Texas HOS does not apply.

And no you cannot log Texas way until the state line and then log USA way. Nuh uh.

There has been times in recent past there was some talk that the Republic shall rise again down there in Texas. With that being the case no fly, no truck and no pass etc (Tanks to the state line etc) would apply against Texas until formal diplomatic relations etc are established. It's just talk.

However. Whatever state you are in. And it's a INTRASTATE LOAD... you have to follow that state.

And here I was also thinking of international cross border loads with Mexico and Canada...

 

This times 1,000. Thank you for explaining probably better than I ever could.

 

Your understanding is spot on. For example, if you haul a container/chassis wholly within one state, but the container came from another state, federal HOS rules apply. If you haul a load of food stuffs from Walmart D.C. to a point in same state, federal HOS applies if goods came from out of state. There was a big case on this involving Armstrong Carpet. Carpet came from Georgia, went into a warehouse in Texas as part of an inventory, then was moved wholly within Texas by another carrier. ICC (now abolished) and Court held it was interstate transportation.

 

There is case law, administrative ruling and guidance that goes back to the mid 40's on this very subject. It has been determined time and time again that the intent at the time of initial shipment also plays into the determination of interstate vs. intrastate such as with Armstrong Carpet.

Now, that said, most roadside enforcement officers will not have a deep understanding, or care, so with a bill of lading showing origin and destination within the same state most drivers will get away with using intrastate hours of service rules eventhough they are not qualified to do so.

 

Prior to the Armstrong case, the ICC considered that a shipment "came to rest" in a public or private and a new intrastate shipment started upon issuance of a bill of lading for the shipments from the warehouse to the delivery location in the same state. The Texas Railroad and Warehouse Commission (or whatever it was called) used this to keep competition out.