was driving over vail pass lastnight empty.

gpsman;

I thought I addressed that by saying get your head out of text book?

My assumption was everyone would know the difference of tractor folding into trailer vs. trailer taking the lead... my bad

I was assuming similar configuration... thus I said "generally" and conclude (2) 8" of tread holding 10,000 lbs of steer will not break loose as quickly as 64" of drive and trailer tandems on empty rig.

I said, the engine decel/brake allows all wheels to still turn. Instead of using air brake which may lock up.

I can only suggest you reread the OP's posts... and re-imagine what you speak of. My guess the OP would've been very happy to find a dry spot, instead of shoulder.

 

Cdl schools are worthless. This job takes common sense not some book preaching. You can't teach common sense.

 

But the premise is: "A lock up of trailer axles", not "the trailer losing traction".

 

Link to my first response:

http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...er-vail-pass-lastnight-empty.html#post3731011

And the OP just thanked MJ1657 for posting "Cdl schools are worthless. This job takes common sense not some book preaching. You can't teach common sense."

Reminds me of the too many green students who told me they were just in school to learn to shift, back and log, because they already knew everything else. I'll give you 3 guesses who didn't learn to shift, back or log worth spit.

 

It's Truckers.....Like Evan Lockridge used to say....You can't get two Drivers to agree on the price of a free cup of coffee....

 

I started driving in the lower 48, and was also taught never to use jakes in slippery conditions. Then I went to Alaska, and found everyone using jakes as much as possible, in order to keep the trailer brakes from heating up and then freezing while parked. Point is, it can be done. Sure, the jakes can break traction; happens all the time; you don't instantly crash. You just hear the engine suddenly lug down, and in some cases even stall before you can get your foot on the clutch. Unless you have the inter-lock in And both differentials locked, you still have at least one drive wheel turning, and that generally keeps you straight. Just ride the clutch for a second and get the engine turning again, and carry on. As the OP said, higher RPMs do generate more retarding power, so if your engine is winding up, you can expect it to slip, especially when you tap the brakes on top of it.

Regarding stab braking vs. gentle application on ice, in a perfect world, with all brakes properly set, gentle application works better. In Alaska, we run so much alcohol in our air lines that there is a long delay in brake application and release. (up to a full second in an A-train) This really screws up the gentle brake application, so sometimes it's easier to give it a pretty good stab then immediately let off of it. Even if some brakes do lock up, they'll start turning again a second later, which is usually enough to reduce speed by a couple MPH without getting very far sideways. As soon as everything is turning and straight again, you stab 'em again. Don't panic just because something started to slip; if you're going to be driving in the mountains all winter, it's going to happen, all part of the job. It's just a matter of staying slow enough so that, if something does lock up, you can recover before you go into the ditch.

As far as Chevy's question, "what could I have done differently", I have 2 suggestions. You didn't say whether you had the axle-interlock in, but don't be shy about locking it any time the road is even slightly slick. It doesn't do any harm, you can run all day at high speed with it locked. My boss told me to leave it locked 24/7, year round.

2nd, if you're having trouble staying in front of your trailer, put some drag chains back there. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

As those of us in the far north know, it is possible to drive safely in conditions that would horrify 95% of the southerners. A lot of it is learning to read the road. Not all ice is the same, not all snow is the same, and it can change in a heartbeat. As you found, frequently the better traction is on the shoulder. If it's been a while since the sand truck came through, most of the sand will have been kicked over onto the shoulder. Just make sure there IS a shoulder, if you're not familiar with the road. Just because it's plowed 5 feet past the right lane does NOT mean you can drive over there. As another poster mentioned, you can sometimes find good traction on the rumble strip. If there is bare pavement in the tire tracks ahead with a strip of snow in between and on the dotted line, frequently you'll have better traction in the snow than on the 'bare' pavement. Another trick I learned up here is to watch the temperature: in conditions that look exactly the same, you'll have better traction below 10 degrees than you will above 20.

 

Last time I was through there, had a load of spray paint, which is hazmat. It was ice everywhere and a real blizzard. The DOT wouldn't let me go through the tunnel and had to detour on Hwy 6. Yep, that was real safe; 100's of people & many on skis and snowmobiles passing me on the highway.

 

Yuck. I never want to take Hwy 6 in a blizzard. It's a pain enough snowpacked on a fair day.

 

Yeah, that's true, but not the argument, although I suspect some believe it is. The point is, it can lead to a crash/unexpected and instantaneous loss of control.

Those are all good points, but mostly apply to Alaska, which isn't exactly I-70 full of skiers on their phones in a hurry to get to the slopes/home. And, I think it's safe to assume Alaskans tend to have different perspectives regarding driving among trucks than those living in the lower 48.

+1. +1. +1. +1. +1.

 

That's awesome.