Yes...stupid question

Discussion in 'ELD Forum | Questions, Answers and Reviews' started by superscooter, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Ok, if you say so. Not that I've read the regs though. Or, for that matter, certified and have our logs lady change it. I guess I must have been dreaming when that happened.
    Or maybe, I did read the regs and I do know what they say.
    Again, it's your company not wanting to modify after it's certified, it has nothing to do with regs, or ELD's. Unless it's a piss poor implementation by the ELD that your company uses.
     
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  3. aaronpeterbilt3787

    aaronpeterbilt3787 Medium Load Member

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    Your condescension is noted. Oh great one. I’m talking on user end. With Qualcomm, once certified, it can not be edited.
     
  4. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    And again, that's company policy and nothing to do with the ELD or regs.
     
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  5. aaronpeterbilt3787

    aaronpeterbilt3787 Medium Load Member

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    Ok so to be clear, you’re stating once a log is certified, the regs say it can be edited? Drive time included?? I’d like to see this in writing. Do the regs also state that once a paper log is signed and completed and can be torn out and changed? Essentially the same thing.
     
  6. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    I specifically stated drive time was not allowed to be edited. Certification doesn't matter.

    As for the black and white, go to Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)
    and read all about what is and isn't allowed.
     
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  7. Dieselboss

    Dieselboss Technology Contributor

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    Under the latest revision of the regs, those entries that are already certified can still be edited. If an edit is made by the carrier then the DRIVER MUST RECERTIFY that day again on the ELD for it to be legit. This is similar to the "old days" when we would have a driver turn in an "amended" paper log sheet because he or she made a mistake on the original. In those cases it was also legal to turn in an amended sheet with the corrections and the driver's signature on the amended sheet.

    I cannot speak to other brands. But as an Omnitracs dealer and installer I can verify the following as far as editing an Omnitracs (Qualcomm) log as long as the unit is in full ELD mode. The Admin CAN edit a driver's log any time in the 6 month window. If the Admin does an edit, the driver WILL receive an alert in the truck showing him or her the edit. The driver must the "ACCEPT or REJECT" the edit. Ultimately the driver is in control of what the log says at the end of the day as far as being factually accurate. Doing "non-driving" edits are pretty easy. Editing "Drive" time can only be done in a couple of cases. Case 1: Team driver forgets to log out. You can edit the drive time onto the correct driver. Case 2: Driver forgets to log in and drives. This will show as "unassigned drive time in an audit. You can edit the unassigned driving by assigning it to a driver.

    Here is the editing regulation from here:

    §395.30 ELD record submissions, edits, annotations, and data retention.
    (a) Accurate record keeping. A driver and the motor carrier must ensure that the driver's ELD records are accurate.

    (b) Review of records and certification by driver. (1) A driver must review the driver's ELD records, edit and correct inaccurate records, enter any missing information, and certify the accuracy of the information.

    (2) Using the certification function of the ELD, the driver must certify the driver's records by affirmatively selecting “Agree” immediately following a statement that reads, “I hereby certify that my data entries and my record of duty status for this 24-hour period are true and correct.” The driver must certify the record immediately after the final required entry has been made or corrected for the 24-hour period.

    (3) The driver must submit the driver's certified ELD records to the motor carrier in accordance with §395.8(a)(2).

    (4) If any edits are necessary after the driver submits the records to the motor carrier, the driver must recertify the record after the edits are made.

    (c) Edits, entries, and annotations. (1) Subject to the edit limitations of an ELD, a driver may edit, enter missing information, and annotate ELD recorded events. When edits, additions, or annotations are necessary, a driver must use the ELD and respond to the ELD's prompts.

    (2) The driver or support personnel must annotate each change or addition to a record.

    (3) In the case of team drivers, if there were a mistake resulting in the wrong driver being assigned driving-time hours by the ELD, and if the team drivers were both indicated in each other's records for that period as co-drivers, driving time may be edited and reassigned between the team drivers following the procedure supported by the ELD.

    (d) Motor carrier-proposed edits. (1) On review of a driver's submitted records, the motor carrier may request edits to a driver's records of duty status to ensure accuracy. A driver must confirm or reject any proposed change, implement the appropriate edits on the driver's record of duty status, and recertify and resubmit the records in order for any motor carrier-proposed changes to take effect.

    (2) A motor carrier may not request edits to the driver's electronic records before the records have been submitted by the driver.

    (3) Edits requested by any system or by any person other than the driver must require the driver's electronic confirmation or rejection.

    (e) Coercion prohibited. A motor carrier may not coerce a driver to make a false certification of the driver's data entries or record of duty status.

    (f) Motor carrier data retention requirements. A motor carrier must not alter or erase, or permit or require alteration or erasure of, the original information collected concerning the driver's hours of service, the source data streams used to provide that information, or information contained in any ELD that uses the original information and HOS source data.
     
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  8. aaronpeterbilt3787

    aaronpeterbilt3787 Medium Load Member

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    I’ve been wrong twice in my life, divorced twice. As far as my stance on editing once certified, a driver cannot edit once certified. Only admin users. That’s where the misunderstanding was. But also, as far as I know, on duty yard move cannot be edited to off duty, nor can personal conveyance. Certified or not. They both can be edited to drive time. And Qualcomm is what I use as well.

    Drive time can’t be edited, or be switched to off duty. It can be re assigned to another driver but it never goes away. In the OP’s case, his “on duty” reset can be easily changed by admin, but not himself. Certified or not.

    I ran into the same issue, forgot to switch from PC to off duty once home. Guess what, my 36 hour reset was shown as off duty pc. Can’t be changed even by admin. Pls correct me if I’m wrong for a fourth time. Lol
     
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  9. Dieselboss

    Dieselboss Technology Contributor

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    You got it. The important concept is that a vehicle can't "undrive." So a yard move to off-duty is impossible because a yard move is a vehicle that is driving in a yard. You're correct also that if the OP forgot to go Off-Duty (which happens a LOT) then the Admin can edit that On-Duty to Off-Duty easily and the driver certifies the edit.

    As I wrote in another post, the FMCSA has tied the rules down to a "perfect world" where drivers never forget to log out or to log PC or out of PC, etc. But it isn't a perfect world. I think that they should allow the Admin to edit the drive time over to another driver who is not a team (like a mechanic) and to edit a driver's drive time to be PC or PC to be drive.
     
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