Engine Block Numbers Not Adding Up...

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by dis_bit, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. dis_bit

    dis_bit Bobtail Member

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    Hi again, this is a whole mess, so I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through and offer guidance. I posted awhile back about our truck being down; it is still in the shop. We ordered a new in-frame kit for our glider based on the block number associated with our VIN, which is infact a Fitzgerald re-man block number for a Detroit Series 60 DDEC 2 converted to DDEC 4. However, we recently learned that the pistons in the kit are the new style, and incompatible with our engine, which is, per the original stamped block number, a series 60 DDEC 2, old enough that Detroit had not prepped the block for conversion, which I understand to be the common practice after 1998. The re-man number, according to Fitzgerald, is not associated with our original block number, either. We contacted original owner and the dealer he sold the truck to. The original owner said he will go through his files to pull whatever records he might have, but the dealer he sold it to claims they never had the truck, despite their name being on the title transfer. The truck has been down for months; this setback of having the wrong parts and having an engine that is not even prepped for the conversion to use the parts will be the death blow to our company. I need to find out who switched the engine then falsified the documents, whether it was the original owner, or the dealership he sold it to. What can I do?
     
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  3. Judge

    Judge Road Train Member

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    Doubt it’d be the original guy, but nothing really, finger pointing.
    Figure out which parts you need or get another truck, rent/lease if have to, drag that one and park it on fence row til you can get right parts for that engine.
    A good mechanic on the old engines is what you’ll need to find, very few of them left
     
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  4. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    Always go by the serial number on the engine block, not what's listed on the build sheet.

    Engines and components get swapped out quite often and the build sheets become outdated.
     
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  5. Rideandrepair

    Rideandrepair Road Train Member

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    Not much you can do. I don’t really understand. It’s a Fitzgerald glider, ddec 4, Fitzgerald # on block. It’s probably all original the way they built it. They just used an old block. I think that’s pretty common with Fitzgerald. You have 2 choices, really 3. Get the other kit, with correct pistons. Get a new block, that’s drilled for piston squirters, and use the kit you have. Or Buy a reman w/ all the upgrades. Cheapest thing to do is return the kit, and get the right kit. Use your block. Finding a block may be hard to do. Probably have to buy a whole engine, and just rebuild it. New reman is about $30k. This is the problem with Fitzgerald. They have they’re own numbers, you have to rely on them for info. You never know exactly what you have, till it’s taken apart. I doubt anyone falsified anything. Fitzgerald built it just as it it.
     
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  6. Big Road Skateboard

    Big Road Skateboard Road Train Member

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    You can't covert 2 to 4. Pretty sure all 4's had piston cooling nozzles. If the death blow is this, your done.

    No 2's, and not maybe no 3's had em. Yeah, you can drill into the coolant passages for TLC liners easy, but you can't add piston cooling nozzles.

    Detroit won't even take a DDEC 2 back for a core, at least so they told me 9 months ago.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
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  7. Rideandrepair

    Rideandrepair Road Train Member

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    Don’t need the nozzles anyway. Just need the right pistons/kit. Only 2 to choose from, get the other one. Might be able to use the 16.5 kit, if you buy new rods. Might be able to get drilled rods, that came out sometime after 2000. They had 2 sizes of wrist pins. Get the right size.
     
  8. Rideandrepair

    Rideandrepair Road Train Member

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    Must be the upgrade that Fitzgerald is referring to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
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  9. Big Road Skateboard

    Big Road Skateboard Road Train Member

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    Yeah, they could do TLC, but they couldn't do cooling nozzles. Point being, if all 4's had nozzles, there would be no way to convert a 2 to 4.

    Maybe Fitzgerald a bit shady?? We already know that
     
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  10. Rideandrepair

    Rideandrepair Road Train Member

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    Only the early ddec4 premium models (PK) were drilled and had nozzles. Others didn’t, and weren’t drilled. After may 98 all blocks were drilled. They either had nozzles (PK) or were capped off, (MK, GK) and nozzles can be easily added. Only upgrade I’ve heard of for ddec2-ddec4 is an ecu only w/ new harness and sensors kit. Can be used on older early 90’s Trucks.
     
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  11. Big Road Skateboard

    Big Road Skateboard Road Train Member

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    Pretty sure 2's also had a different crank gear too, needed for the 2 to 3 upgrade. I may be misremembering also.
     
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