HOS Compliance

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by landy77, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    The grayest part is due to the fact the FMCSA does not define "unladen". It could be taken to mean empty, or it could be taken to mean bobtail. I tend to lean towards the latter and, as you can see, others favour the former. I suspect most enforcement officers favour the narrowest definition, i.e., bobtail, but I have never had to test that theory.

    Only the judges know for sure. :biggrin_255:
     
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  3. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    They should be.

    IMO, if a driver arrives with enough time on his/her clock to get loaded and to the next safe haven for parking then the shipper/receiver is obligated to get the truck out in time for that to happen, or must provide said safe haven themselves. Impossible to manage though. The only thing I can think of at the moment would be to have shippers/receivers on some kind of a log system as well. Even then, the task of oversight and follow-up would be enormous.
     
  4. Raiderfanatic

    Raiderfanatic Heavy Load Member

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    If I'm outta hours and there is no place close by that I can go to for my ten, then I'm staying. I guess if the police get called, then so be it. But I run the risk of getting put OOS if I leave and get pulled over. It's a lose/lose situation.

    Again, if in the same town/city there's a place for trucks to park, I'll head there. But alot of times we load/unload out in BFE. Any reasonable LEO would be understanding, IMO, if called out cause you said you can't leave.

    I've never dealt with this before though. Every time I've been out of hours, I've just stayed parked after I loaded/unloaded and never had any trouble.
     
  5. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    It would be nice if dieselbear or scalemaster would post an opinion on this.

    Running out of hours at the shipper/receiver does not qualify under the ADVERSE DRIVING CONDITIONS exception (and it wouldn't allow you to exceed your 14-hour clock anyhow). The question for me is whether it would qualify under the EMERGENCY CONDITIONS exception. The FMCSA does not define what an "emergency" is, so it is obviously open to a broader interpretation. If the shipper/receiver is forcing a driver to leave the premises or enforcement will be called, that seems to have a rather urgent nature to it. In essence, you are pushed off the shipper's/receiver's property and now your truck is on the public road. You can't just leave it there.

    I think the worst thing would be to actually have enforcement called as that could leave you with few options (I think very few LEOs would see the situation from the same perspective as a driver... regardless of the regulations). If I were in that position I would probably drive to the nearest safe haven for parking (that could have been reached absent any undue delay) and note it on my log as an emergency and let it get sorted out later.
     
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  6. THBatMan8

    THBatMan8 Road Train Member

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    There's nothing stopping you from driving off duty when you run out of hours at a reciever, besides company policy. I've pulled onto scalehouses driving home after dropping off a load when I was over my 14, and got no log violations.

    I can't think of a scenario where you would run out of hours at a shipper. In my opinion, that's just poor trip planning. If you go to a shipper with a fresh 14, it's impossible to run out of hours if you're detained; unless you stay on line 4 the entire time.
     
  7. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    The only way to arrive at a shipper with "a fresh 14" is to have slept there... sometimes possible, most times not. When doing multiple picks, particularly with produce, that is very unlikely to happen.

    So, you arrive at a shipper you have been at many times before for a live load that typically takes 1.5-2 hours. You have 5 of your 11 and 7 of your 14 remaining and your next planned stop for your 10-hour rest is 1.5 hours away so you aren't concerned about running out of time. Due to equipment breakdown the live load takes 7 hours and the facility is closing as soon as you are loaded and you cannot remain on the property. You did not have enough hours in the sleeper to qualify under the SLEEPER BERTH provision.

    You're out of hours at the shipper.

    BTW, not all that unusual in the produce world.
     
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  8. THBatMan8

    THBatMan8 Road Train Member

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    I pull a reefer and have never ran out of hours at a shipper. For starters, I won't run back to back loads as when something holds you back on the trip you're on, it screws you up for the next trip. I want at least a 10 hour gap between trips, so I set my PTA (Projected Time of Availability) accordingly. 2nd, I will only take runs with alot of deadhead if it's a pre-loaded trailer. If it's a live load, the company can find someone else who's closer. I drive for a company that has alot of customers, so usually a shipper is no more than 100 miles from where I park at.
     
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  9. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    Well, lots of companies don't operate that way for a variety of reasons, be it manpower limitations, equipment limitations, customer preferences, load availability, etc., which is why drivers post those kind of questions. Many produce haulers are doing an out-and-back, with multiple picks (sometimes as many as 6-8 for one load) for the return.

    There is no one-size-fits-all solution in trucking... never has been, never will be.
     
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  10. THBatMan8

    THBatMan8 Road Train Member

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    Im not suggesting that there is. What I'm saying is that it's all in your trip planning.
     
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  11. scottied67

    scottied67 Road Train Member

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    Trip planning is the key. Had this happen to me many times but a few months ago at a certain receiver it was a huge problem. They don't allow drivers to stay on their property. I stayed anyway to make a point, and this is only going to get worse when elogs come out for everyone. Police were called, 3 cruisers with bright lights and several local cops banging on the doors with their billy clubs. I got out slowly holding the little green book out like a bible as a shield against devil demons lol. These local cops looked at me like I'm some loon for not driving across the street to the large shopping center. I explained the United States Department of Transportation says I cannot drive past this 14 hour/11 hour clock.

    My fleet manager's answer was: "maybe you shouldn't have taken that load." Problem is I'm trying to feed my family and my anxiety says if I turn down this load I may sit for x amount of time as punishment. I just do the best I can to stay ahead of the 8ball.
     
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