C.R. England is asking for an exemption from a rule which dictates that non-CDL holders must be accompanied by a qualified driver trainer while driving. The mega-carrier has submitted an application for an exemption from the rule to the FMCSA who has opened the request up for public comment.
As they currently stand, the rules state that a licensed driver trainer must be on duty and sitting in the front seat at all times while the non-CDL driver is operating the vehicle. This applies not only to driver trainees, but also to drivers who have passed both the written exam and the skills test. It is only the drivers who have passed both that the exemption would apply to.
In their application, C.R. England points to their desperate need for new drivers while claiming that under the current system it is too expensive to get new drivers back to their local DMVs to pick up their newly-earned CDLs. If new drivers and driver trainers could effectively run as a team, it would cut the costs significantly.
The FMCSA is accepting public comments on the exemption application. Fill out your formal comment here.
Next Story: Gas Dips Below $2 A Gallon In US Gas Stations
Source: fmcsa, gpo, gobytrucknews, federalregister
snowlauncher says
Poor CR England 🙁
They are in desperate need of new drivers. (I wonder why??) And now they cry poor because they can’t afford having 2 drivers in a truck unless they team? This really takes some balls on their part!
Bryan says
This is coming from CR England? You’re kidding. No way. Ha Ha ha Ha. My sides are hurting.
michelle mares says
CR England not the only one All these mega carriers are desperate. Get a clu . Stop treating your drivers like a pos!!
Mickey says
The sad thing is. There may be people in the government that will go along with this. ……
Amie says
If all the company’s would treat and pay their driver’s fairly they wouldn’t have so much turnover, so in turn, not have so many new drivers to train. No one should be exempt. If you don’t have a CDL in hand you should not be driving a truck. If they need to pick up their license then drive a regular car? Simple as that. This request is so lame. You know the old saying, give them an inch and they’ll take a mile. I don’t know this company but have recently learned a lot of the ways trucking company’s try to cheat the system with the driver who takes the bad end of the deal. Is CR England paying for this privilege if they win their exemption status? If they have a wreck to get the license who pays for the accident? CR England? Insurance company? Maybe the insurance company should get a say in this. I see this as: Send the person to pick up license, check, while they are at it let’s have them pick up or deliver on the way to or from, check; two birds with one stone?
Barbara says
All these major carriers ate self insured tl.
Moving Forward says
When I was going through the Phase-1 part of CRE’s training program, my so-called trainer was almost always back in the upper bunk (against CRE policy at the time) and either sleeping, talking on the phone or listening to music. He almost never sat in the passenger seat and rarely gave any “training tips” – he just wanted the extra miles.
Usetabe says
To, Moving Forward – Same here, m’friend. I started with CRE in 2005, went through their school, got my license FIRST (which confuses me about this article), was bused to SLC from Dallas (helluva trip), then put on an O/O’s truck to train. He put me behind the wheel and within 15 mins, went to the sleeper. It was my first time out, I wasn’t comfortable with shifting, and instead of TEACHING ME he wanted to run it as a team. One of the times I didn’t recover from missing a gear, he reached up front, slammed it in gear and shouted, “YOU HAVE GOT TO LEARN HOW TO DO THIS ####!” O_O I don’t give a damn who you are, you can’t TRAIN someone from the sleeper.
Jim Williams says
What a joke C R England is! I worked there a a solo and as an OO. I lost my home due to no miles to that lease( 1100-1500 pr wk) mega carriers should shut up and stick to safety. As stated above TRINERS CAN NOT TRAIN FROM THE SLEEPER ! trainers do it for the $$$ only. Crash stats speak for themselves. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DECLINE C R ENGLANDS REQUEST ! BTW I was one of the original plaintiffs in the class action against C R England vs OOIDA… cr englands idea is just stupid with $$ behind it…
Sojourn14 says
Same here with Werner. First day with trainer, and he had a 13-speed! I was taught in school on a 10-speed. My trainer was more into playing his video games in his bunk than training. I was too happy to leave his truck, and even happier to leave Werner!
sudon't says
It’s not just England. That’s how I was trained – trainer in the bunk. It’s not the trainer’s fault, of course. Most companies dispatch trainer trucks as if they were a team operation. It’s perfect for the companies because few drivers want to team, so they fill the seats this way. When I trained, there was only one bunk in the truck, (insurance reasons, I was told), so how could it have worked any other way? If we couldn’t sleep at the same time, how could we be awake at the same time?
All these companies whining about how they can’t get enough drivers ought to put their efforts into making the job something that people might want to do. Start with making the sacrifice of having no life at least remunerative. Increase pay and vacation time – considerably. As it stands, we truck drivers are subsidizing cheap freight with our low pay, while having no life, and destroying our health. I would not do this job if I were still a young man.
Chris says
Bad idea don’t do it.
Mike says
Exemptions ====(short cut) equal X.X NO exemptions for no company’s Have to agree with Mr Henry’s ghost
John says
Was my trainer suppose to be in the passenger seat? Now you tell me…30,000 miles later. Hmph!!
Patrick Henry's Ghost says
This was my comment I submitted for the record.
“There should be NO exemption for C.R. England or any other carrier when it comes to training new drivers! That’s the problem with the large fleets now. The student does not get enough training in school and even less when they get out on the highways with these mega carriers. The end result is these under trained students go out on the road and cause accidents destroying property and sometimes life as well. It has resulted over the last 20 or so years in more rules and more regulations on veterans of the industry like myself. I used to love the trucking business. Now I am looking forward to retirement at 45 years of age. In any event, I have absolutely no interest in being out on the roads with a bunch of improperly or under trained truck drivers.”
Jim says
How much is the accident going to cost?
Jackblack says
Don’t they do this already anyways?
Renegade says
It’s these big companies who push for all these stupid rules! I say great you get what you ask for now live with it! That’s one for the owner operates ! All these big companies want the government in our business . Elb’s , these stupid hours and 30 minute breaks are the result of big business trying to push the small companies out ! Poor baby !!!!
Doug says
I say the road is way to dangerous now. These big companies have ruined trucking. I say the Government should pass a law stating your trainer must have a minimum of 5yrs otr experience or he can’t train. These 90 day “TRUCK DRIVERS” don’t even have a clue & are “TRAINING” people! No wonder there is so many accidents & such. SUFFER BIG COMPANIES! YOU HAVE TAKEN ENOUGH ALREADY! 😛
Don says
CR England had a previous class action in which owner/operators were getting screwed for those drivers who may remember. Stay away from these clowns, they are seriously bad news.
Barbara says
I so agree .I was taught by my husband at the time he had over 20 years heavy haul.he slept in the jump seat for the first 60 days .I think drivers should have at least 5 years otr in the 11 western at least this way you can train your students properly on the Rockies mtn and you know how to drive in heavy winter passes conditions. Some trainers train in tyne winter and come from the lower states where there’s hardley no snow or mtn driving
Hamp phillips says
No they need a experienced driver awake until TV they get their license. Really you shouldn’t be able to get licensed until you have a year under your belt. Had my license for 30 years and this 14 day school are giving drivers a bad name. They are unsafe.
Cindy Beamer says
Absolutely not!! How in the HELL can a person train a newbie when they are running as a team and sleeping while the new driver drives????
As a former trainer that was forced to “train” this way, I did not last long, as I felt a trainer was supposed to sit in the jumpseat and actually train, teach, and watch the new driver. Not only does a trainer have the job of teaching driving skills, you need to teach life skills for the road.
Perhaps if these companies PROPERLY trained the trainers, drivers, etc. there would not be a shortage….we are people, not just another interchangeable part of the truck.
I live in Alaska and have driven all over the lower 48, Canada, and here in Alaska, in all sorts of weather, situations, and equipment. Van, flat, reefer, frameless end dump, to name a few. I usually pull full doubles here…grossing about 120,000 and up on these icy, snowy, often two lane roads……and would not sleep behind an experienced driver, let alone a new one.
These companies need to train drivers and their retention rates would drastically improve. Costs would decrease in areas such as accidents, driver turn over, recruiting ads, etc. too. And your drivers would be less stressed, able to handle themselves as professionals, and stay working longer for your company. OMG! What a concept!
Joshua Collins says
You should submit this post to the FMCSA during the open comment period. Well said!
Joshua Collins says
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/11/28/2014-28072/commercial-drivers-license-standards-application-for-exemption-cr-england-inc
Cindy Beamer says
I did that. But will they listen? Supposed to be for our safety, but so far they don’t support us or use common sense when making rules or regulations for our industry.
Moving Forward says
If anyone submits the actual facts and experience s/he had with CR England, it might come back to bite them in the arse… since his/her name will be attached to the complaint, CRE might very well come after you and attempt to damage your record.
Fletcher White says
Not everyone can/or is ment to drive trucks. It takes time and determination. Nothing comes over night. Ok,George Foreman was very powerfull. But most of us it takes time. Quit bad mouthing these big companies. They are being generous?.
Chris says
Perhaps they should just let the trainees go home for a few days to gather up what they need to perform thier job. That would include thier obtaining thier physical license. BTW, “Doesn’t the trainee have to have their DOT physical paperwork to submit to the DMV just like the rest of us?” Maybe CRE is worried that the DMV may require the new driver to perform an actual skills test like backing up with a trailer.
I see this as a way for them to pinch pennies by keeping the trainee on the road for as many days as possible. They already know that ninety percent only last a few months at best. Every day they can keep a new driver rolling freight for next to nothing in pay is a big benefit to the bottom line.
A great majority of new drivers out on the road today have very little, to no real exposure to the realities of driving a CMV as a career. Nobody teaches them about the dangers they will encounter. They have no clue of the toll thier family’s going to pay during thier initial learning period. They all have been brainwashed into believing that as a new driver they will earn top dollar within six months. Meanwhile, they struggle to survive financially and become dependent upon driving three thousand miles a week just to make ends meet. Many end up divorced and reside in the company truck as thier home.
CRE kmows this as well as the other large scale companies. Shame on them for trying to squeeze even more out of a new driver.
Pure greed is what I see laying behind thier application.
Brian says
I did their whole training deal back in 96′ . I had to go to Salt Lake City to do the driving exam part. After I did the practice here in NJ. While I was on road with instructor we came back to where it started in NJ and they let me go. But they still to this day want me to pay $3,000 for their training. CR England has made a living off of train to hire scam. They feed you a bunch of bull, then say you aren’t what they are looking for, but please pay $3,000 at the window sir. CR ENGLAND is a big scam which is now going to bite them in the ass. It’s about time. They screwed up my credit till this day.
Brian says
Oh I forgot to add. That when we got back to the hub here in NJ. When they were going to formally let me go. They said we’ll give you a bus ticket to wherever you need to get home. Lol!! I told the guy that let me go to take the bus ticket and stick it up his a@@. I live a mile and a half from the hub in NJ. Lol!!! Dumbasses….
Foot Loose says
They only said that they’d give you a bus ticket because they knew you lived a mile and a half away. I personally don’t know but have heard that they have a puppy mill kind of operation in Indiana where they bring in new recruits, charge ’em $3,000 to be there and then find a reason to fire ’em after a few days and NOT pay for transportation back home. Again from what I’ve heard, you have to pay your way to the training facility in Indiana with promises they’ll reimburse you but that doesn’t happen. If you want some real horror stories about C R England’s practices and principals just Google “C R England training scam” (About 351,000 results – 0.36 seconds) and read the thousands of reports from drivers they’ve victimized; then there are a few “glowing reports” of how wonderful the company is, obviously written by shills paid by the company–much like the one 3 comments below, ostensibly from the Pastor of a “religious organization” in Winston Salem, NC. BTW, you can actually hire people in India who will write glowing reports for YOUR business at $1.00 per report, if you’re in need. Professional shills in the US charge up to $10.00 per report which is probably waaaaay too much for England to pay. One would hope that the ‘govamint’ would shut this organization down instead of granting ANY exemptions from ANYTHING… but as long as they’re getting their share they couldn’t care less about the drivers.
Brian says
Yes Footloose you heard correct. It’s the same set up they have in Burlington, NJ. Funny part about it is there were 10 other guys going through with me. So you do the math. $3,000 a pop X 10 every 3 months if I remember the time table right. Then they put you on a Greyhound to Salt Lake, put you up in a mobile home type of setup they have on their premises. I think it was 3 or 5 days while you actually do hands on to get your Utah CDL. Then when I got fired I changed it over to NJ CDL. No they don’t give a rats ass about their drivers. The reason for my “firing” was I was rough on my trainers truck while trying to back into a dock space no bigger in square space than the trailer itself, in order to perform this feat of magic. So yeah I got a little aggravated and hit the gas forward a little quick. Not to mention I didn’t sleep a wink for 5 days because we were constantly moving as a team, cross country and back to the East coast. And I wasn’t quite comfortable with someone dictating if I was going to die in my sleep while they were at the wheel.
Charlene says
The big companies use the students for profit and minimal training. The trainer operates the truck as a team. The trainer is an idiot and unqualified at best. I met a student whose trainer had been driving for 6 months !! This is why the industry is plagued with the trash behind the wheel. The trainer should have a minimum of 5 years for training purposes.
Steve Bell says
Why do the big profitable companies need breaks ?…The rules should apply to to all no free rides for the wealthy…
Jimmie Evans says
All companies that operate on the scale CRE is on should be allowed special exemptions when they contribute to the overall furtherance of the economy. CRE is a major force in delivering the food that every person on this forum consumes. Every comment I read is looking at the issue from the wrong perspective. NO COMPANY should have to have a Licensed driver in the passenger seat the entire time a non-licensed driver is behind the wheel. First and last hour of each drive shift minimum training time. When I was training at CRE, I didn’t want my trainer sitting up there beside me like he was my baby-sitter. That made me nervous. If I got stuck BECAUSE HE WAS AN O/O………….I knew he was concerned about me taking care of his truck…….HE WAS ALWAYS THERE FOR ME!!!!!!!! I experienced great success at CRE. I completed a Lease Contract, paid a truck off, and hired a driver to drive it for me. All of this while training students the entire time I was there. Yes, its challenging, but so is life itself. Because of CRE, I am not a statistic today. I am employed and contributing to the furtherance of this economy. This company and all companies that legitimately need this exception to protect the bottom line of their business should be given the exemption swiftly without reservation. No driver in training need be guarded like a child while learning how to drive.
Tim says
Your “contributing to the furtherance of the economy” argument sounds pretty good on the surface Jimmie, but unless you’re willing to back it up with support for all kinds of historical riffraff human beings have perpetrated on one another, you might want to retract it.
Salty Lad says
You’re on a trucking forum, or haven’t you realized? We *ALL* further the economy by delivering goods, it’s not something only England got stuck with.
And you can shove your little recruiting blurb, we don’t care that you were able to buy a truck. Every fleet out there has O/O contractors.
And why is England the only one crying for an exception? I don’t see May, Schneider or Knight begging. Then again, they aren’t stupid enough to trust their equipment to some green driver fresh off a skills test. After I completed my month of training, I went out on the road with a trainer who watched me like a hawk the entire time, and did his best to ensure I am one of the safest drivers on the road. Was I nervous at first? Hell yes. But not as nervous as I’d have been if I’d been alone up there.
For once, the FMCSA has put up a perfectly legitimate rule, and I am 100% behind it. This is the kind of ruling that finally supports the driver, making sure that the new guy gets trained properly.
Do a YouTube search for I80 runaway, where a green driver tried to take Donner pass with his trainer in the sleeper berth. Then maybe you’ll understand why this scares some of us so badly.
sudon't says
Well, I’ve got say, this is the first time I’ve heard something positive about England. They seem to have one of the worst reputations in the business, and that’s saying something! Not that I doubt you, Jimmie.
Rob S says
How much did CRE pay you for that spiel?
Moving Forward says
I’ll bet he’s just a plant on this site for CRE… they don’t deserve this exception and I’m sure most of the good folks involved in the Class Action lawsuits against CRE will agree. Jimmie sounds like some of the staff I met at their SLC facility.
Struggling says
“All companies that operate on the scale CRE is on should be allowed special exemptions when they contribute to the overall furtherance of the economy.”
Spoken like a true “crony capitalist”. RINO’s like you make me gargle with Liquid Draino® more than Leftists do because it is crony capitalists like YOU that exploit or find it acceptable to exploit, or both, us laborers. You are probably for granting illegal immigrants to be allowed to drive trucks also, which is probably CRE’s next request.
How about this “pal”: How about all workers in interstate commerce, such as interstate truck drivers, but taken out of the “expemt employee” classification; you know, the one that allows companies not to pay us a minimum wage, not to pay us overtime after 40 hours worked in seven consecutive days, et al.
I think that the “megamills” already have an unfair competitive advantage as it is in that they can “self insure”themselves thus allowing themselves access to the pool of inexperienced drivers. If I could “use a pen and a phone”, I would not allow any single company, and its subsidiaries, to possess more than one thousand power units. Trailers may be only up to triple the number of power units.
Alas, in this current plutocracy in Obamica, I suspect that CRE will soon get its request soon after it cuts checks for senator and congressmen re-election campaign fundraisers.
Kc says
This is really bad. If there was a time I would agree with theFMCSA to take a stand it would be this day.
steve says
Of all the bottom feeder incorporated, England has to be in the top two. We need to comment and make sure the FMCSA doesn’t allow them an exemption.
steve says
Doug is right. I read in an magazine an article about a guy who started training with only 6 months experience. Are you kidding? The guy hasn’t driven 4 seasons yet, and he’s training other drivers?
Ray Yuzik says
It’s a real joke.These companies build their whole financial operation on cheap driver pay and stealing from the drivers.The trucking industry as a whole has built it’s whole operation on scab Labour. It’s the only industry that doesn’t pay for the expenses and sacrifice of being away from home.
Kc says
This type of crap is the cause of cheap freight.
Brian says
I hitched a ride with a CR Eng phase 2 trainer to Salt Lake City once. She told me that she had so much difficulty backing the truck into a dock that she regularly had drivers from other companies do it for her. The training should be longer and it should pay enough for the student to survive the process without driving so completely. stressed out for 11 hrs a day. As it stands, i believe they pay veteran drivers in the range of $0.32-.34 per mile, so I fail to see how they’re having a money shortage.
Salty Lad says
Can you imagine the insurance rates they gotta pay? If they’re backing that badly, and not fully training the drivers? Their expenses must be through the roof!
BrownDog says
Self-insured. I believe.
mark says
pay top out at 33.5 cpm at 10 years, nothing after that.
robertt says
Hell no, unless of course some green happens to find its way into your wallet.
Speaking of green. There would be little driver turnover if they paid a decent wage.
Dale Harper says
Brian you are lucky. Many of these companies will not even provide you a ticket to get back home. It is up to you to find your own way home. They could care less if you made it safe one or not, or even if you make it back home. Many if not Most of these “Big Box Companies” owners in my opinion should be in prison the way they lie and scam new drivers.
The biggest scam of all is thier lease program. They say become an Owner Operator for us , be your own boss, pick your loads and make more money. Here is the secret they don’t want you to know. IT IS ALL A LIE. You will work harder then you ever would just to make the truck payment. You will forfeit your home time and holidays because you cannot afford your truck to not make money. You will forfeit most or all of your benefits . No work comp, no truck breakdown pay, no vacation pay, no company insurance. After everything is said and done, your actual take home pay ( not the money you pay the truck) will be far less then what a company driver makes who has all of the benefits and none of the stress and worries of being an O/O. In the end 80-90% of these lease deals the driver will lose his truck because he cannot keep up on the maintenance and truck payments and still pay thier selfs. These companies will fix up the trucks and release these trucks to new unsuspecting drivers again.
Bottom line …it is free labor for the big companies and you pay the fuel, the truck and maintenance for these companies. If you have all of the facts and numbers to plug in it is simple math to figure this all out. That being said there are still a few good leases out there, just far and few in between. If you want become a successful O/O . Gain some experience first. Do your due diligence. Educate yourself by talking to successful and experience owner operators from other companies. Do the math. Don’t go in blindfolded, that is a guarantee failure.
Brian says
That is why I’m glad they let me go Dale. I still owe them for the $3,000 training, well it’s probably up to $8,000 by now with the interest. I haven’t looked lately. Funny thing is I used the CDL for 1 job after CR England for about a year and after that it was good to have when applying for jobs that weren’t using me to use the license. Mostly straight jobs. But no one would hire me without 1 year over-the-road experience. Then as time went by it was because I didn’t have recent over-the-road experience. Ridiculous!!!! But now that I have 2 DUI’s under my belt (got 1 from 20 years ago and 1 2 years ago) and am currently unemployed and don’t have an interest in the industry anymore because of the aggravation and time I put in to try and get hired by a trucking firm before my 2nd DUI they can all sink in the economic downfall that has hit everyone else. Not to mention about 8 months ago I started getting all kinds of calls from companies willing to hire me LOL!!! Too late you bastards!!!
Bill says
This is about England being able to make more money by running more freight. They don’t give two shts about the driver. Hey the law is the law England. Suck it up. Hey I think maybe I should get an exemption from the HOS rule. I need to drive 13 hours a day because I’m losing money at 11. Wonder how that would go over.
Bill says
I need an exemption from the 30 minute break
Bill says
I need an exemption from the 1-5 reset rule on resetting my 70. Can you put that in for me too England?
Corey Jackson says
Lol, this is funny. Who does England think they are fooling? This joke of a trucking company is just looking for more loopholes to put more money in their pockets. I started with them back in 1998, and was the only one out of my class to last the whole first year because I was determined and I love trucking and trucks. My dad trucked for over 40 years and my brother came straight out of highschool and started at 18, so its in my blood. I went through some serious bullshiggety with these crooks. They always tried to find some stupid excuse for not reimbursing your money for tolls, cat scales, lumper fees, trailer washouts, pallet pickups, you name it. Once I called in to get a comcheck express code to pay for a washout so I could drop that trailer at a beer plant. The payroll girl had the gall to tell me that I should use the $100 dollar advance on my fuel card to pay for that. I laughed, and calmly told her that the name on the truck says England and not Jackson. Really, you think Im gonna pay to have your trailer washed out for a load that you are force-dispatching me on? I wised up and started making copies of all my receipts, and it came in handy a few times. They would always claim they didnt reimburse your money because the receipts were in the trippak envelopes. I remember once being in Hershey, Nebraska talking to a poor lady who made the mistake of leasing one of their trucks. She told me she hadnt been paid in over a month, and that her last check was for a whopping $98! I asked her why hadnt she told them to ram that truck where the sun don’t shine, her reply was “I don’t want to go back into a 65mph company truck.” I was like wow! This is how companies like C.R. England stay in business, by employing morons who will make them millions while they starve and lose all their possessions. And it’s gonna continue because this world is full of dumb people who have nothing else going for them and will allow companies like England to break it off 8n them.
Bob says
One time at the T/A in Laredo, I directed a CT England driver who was obviously a rookie and was about to hit my truck. I instructed him to change his set up and guided him in. A lady got out and watched. I asked, “are you his trainer”? She replied, “NO. he’s MY trainer” WOW! Talk about the blind leading the blind. Nothing against the driver’s who are trying to get experience, but CRE is not the place to do it. Stay away from them. They have completely earned their bad reputation.
Charles says
C.R.England has the worst drivers on the road now.And if C.R.England,along with a lot of other companies out there would treat the drivers with a little more respect and dignity,well maybe just maybe they wouldn’t have such a hard time keeping drivers.Oh yeah,and quit lying to drivers in order to get them on board.
Mike J. says
@ Charles,,,(Oh yeah,and quit lying to drivers in order to get them on board.)
Charles i totally agree with the last part of your statement. In 2012 i applied with CR England,,prior to applying i worked for a local trucking company for about a total of 11 months here locally in the Las Vegas Nevada area between 2011 through 2012 running 11 western states,(Worked for 15+ years in the construction field prior to 2011 driving job) before being contacted by a guy named John Nevins at C R England in S.L.C. The company here in Las Vegas was an OK company to work for just that they operated older equipment and i kept breaking down,, three breakdowns in three different states, in three different trucks in less than two weeks time (this company did their own repairs,,need i say more). Examples,,(over heating, hydraulicking, loose sensor wires). Was to go on-board with C R England as “EXPERIENCED NEW HIRE” with 14+ years and 1,000,000+ miles, current DOT physical, clean driving record for over 30 years (since last ticket). Went through 4 days of orientation and ACED all the tests (Road Test,Physical agility,Missed only one question on the final Dot test), then the afternoon of the fourth day (final day of orientation) tells me that since i only have 11 MONTHS CURRENT WITHIN THE LAST THREE YEARS i would have to be evaluated and would have to go out on one regional round trip to be checked out. At first i resisted but then gave in considering i had just spent 4 days out of my life going through orientation and had picked out my lease truck and regardless of what i had been hearing that i was going to make it work, boy was i wrong,, The guy i went out with had very little experience, i told myself well one trip i can deal with that, well we did not go back to yard in S.L.C, instead Denver back to Grand Fork Utah turnaround back to Colorado Springs,,when i attempt to talk to the drive manager of that route she refuses to answer my QUALCOMM MESSAGES so i call from my cell and she tells me if i got something to say say it through my trainer,,AND I SAY WHAT, WHAT TRAINER I AM SECOND SEAT ON THIS TEAM AND I WAS TO MAKE ONE ROUND TRIP AND RETURN TO SALT LAKE TO PICK UP MY LEASE TRUCK,,SHE THEN REFUSES TO TALK TO ME. At about the same time i am telling her i am headed back to Salt Lake City my co-drive’s phone rings and they talk. He try’s to talk me into hanging with him a while longer and i tell him this is not what i signed on for and drove back to Salt Lake City, got out of the truck and said adiós to C R England,,,,there was nothing negative written in my DAC and they did say that i was eligible for rehire.
pocketchange says
Amusing.. is this someone’s idea of a comedy sketch?
John says
I would have a hard time accepting this. What legitimate reason could England have that would exclude them from everyone else? Other then they are abusing the system now and want to continue to do so. This is another company that is so bad, it has more rookies then seasoned drivers. This is why we need regulations. Its for companies like England. They have no concern for safety, drivers or the motoring public. Only to squeeze out more miles for less costs of operation.
Bob says
CR England doesn’t want to send these rookies home on a bus to get their CDL because they are afraid they won’t come back. It’s much easier to disrespect people and treat them like crap if you can hold them financially captive and keep them away from home. As a driver, you are nothing more than a piece of meat in the seat to these large mega carriers. Gee, I wonder why they have high turnover and can’t retain experienced drivers?
Corey Jackson says
Lol, I can just picuter some of those rookies at the bus station with a couppe of recruiters, promising them that they will come back once they get their cdls, then running on the bus, telling the bus driver to step on it, the bus pops a wheelie and burns rubber out of the Salt Lake City depot. Then one recruiter looks to the other and says, “Im confident they are coming back, arent you Bob?” Th3n Bob goes, “well, Im skeptical as I can se them throwing all their paperwork out the window, and they just threw out a flaming toy England truck.”
Greg says
They want the exemption because they know that no one will want to be a trainer if they can’t get the extra miles and they would have to come up with some way to compensate “trainers” and that’s where it will cost them money.
Went to SLC for a 14 day school, got with a trainer who sat in the front seat until we cleared the grades and got on flat road then he crawled in the bunk and stayed there to Denver except for the 30 min break. Pretty much how it was the entire time.
Learned more being out by myself from experiences and other drivers than I ever did with a “trainer”.
murray says
Oh no, no, no.. This will open a can of worms that would allow trainer to be asleep and unavailable for a quick response should a question by trainee arise. It would be running freight cheap for co. trainees don’t make that much a mile. Do not do this.
Robin says
I have my own story to add to this. Similar years back when I applied, they told me that they do not have company drivers that everything is lease. So I said, okay, send me the details of your lease so I can look it over and they refused. however, I was invited to come down to Utah to talk to them.
It was after I found an older copy online that somebody at posted, that they had finally given in and sent me a “rough draft” of the requirements and costs for being a lease driver with them.
Doing the math, taken in consideration mileage restrictions, extra fees and charges, etc., it didn’t pencil in.
Tim says
Look I’m no fan of England, but it sounds to me like all they are asking for is to let a driver who has passed his/her CDL exams to be granted driving privileges immediately instead of having to wait for a piece of plastic to make its way into their wallet.
Is there some hidden agenda to that? I don’t see one, so I don’t see anything outrageous about the request. (What’s most outrageous to me is that England exists—I’m definitely on board with that!)
Bill says
That’s like trying to get into the port without a twic. Doesn’t matter if it’s already approved they’re not going to let you in. You have to have it on you.
Salty Lad says
It’s not people holding a CDL. This applies to the drivers still holding a permit, as in they’ve had the 5 days of basic classes, and are just now out on the road with a learner permit. THAT’S the rule England wants to bend.
lizzie says
Go over to the federal site and make your comments there.
Craig says
I believe that CDL mills ruin the trucking industry. I was going to hire a CR England trainee two months ago after he completed his contract. He was on his way home but died in an accident while sleeping in his bunk.
I do understand CR England is a large company and has high turnover. I do not understand why new trainee drivers have to go team drive instead of doing local work. The new driver would get more dock practice, more traffic practice, and more one on one with the instructor.
I have a vested interest in what CR England does with these sometimes less than properly trained drivers. I have the right to LIVE.
I never again want to offer the father of a dead CR England driver my semi to bring the body of their son home for the funeral.
gman says
Most of the accident that happens on the highways are by experience drivers are involved not the new drivers. The new drivers may have a problem when it comes to backing up so don’t put that on the new drivers. I have been driving for 26 years
Bill says
And you know this how??? Without some figures on this I would have to disagree. Here’s a question. If you had to put a driver in a truck you owned or if you were running team, would you rather have someone fresh out of school or someone with 10+years OTR. I rest my case.
Jenny says
I’ve been driving 30+ yrs and anybody asking for this should not be in trucking. I pulled on a scale in Arkansas few months ago and got DOT and was informed my CDL was downgraded to a Class D because Minnesota claims they never received my new Medical which was faxed by the Doctor, Myself, and the Company I was leased to from three different locations and states to make sure they got it. I have never been through anything like this. I was furious with the new so called Medical being able to ruin your record after years of driving with nothing on my record, plenty of experience, professional attitude, etc, just to have been charged with Driving Without A Commercial License when you do everything they asked you to do. Minnesota did not do it’s job so I paid the price. Is DOT going to investigate Minnesota? I don’t think so. So to CR England, “YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN ANY BODY. FOLLOW THE LAW SET FOR ALL DRIVERS. YOUR DRIVERS ARE NOT CHILDREN NEEDING A PERMIT TO DRIVE. THEY ARE ADULTS NEEDING A CDL LICENSE ON THERE PERSON TO DRIVE PERIOD!!!!!!”
Taylor says
Funny, the mega’s are always pushing more and more rules thru FMCSA, then cry and want exceptions made for themselves due to the strangling rules… Keep it like it is, let the mega fleets suffer from their love of rules!
Bill says
I agree. It’s these big fleets and the ATA that pushes these BS rules. Suck it up. It’s a monster of your own creation. Maybe if the ATA would stand with OOIDA all this wouldn’t be happening to the extreme that it is.
dmdriver says
I guess I’m just not that smart? once you pass the skills and written tests, don’t you then have your cdl? be it a paper or plastic copy when I graduated school I was a cdl holder. can’t figure out why a non-cdl holder would be driving ?
Cindy Beamer says
You might have the paper…..but it takes more than that to know your equipment, safe driving, etc. Just because you obtain the cdl, doesn’t mean you are qualified to share the road with my grand children.
dmdriver says
my point is why do they need an exemption. how does a non-cdl holder qualify to even be hired ? with or without a trainer? I am well aware that passing the school program equals diddly squat. I trained otr drivers for 7 years and have spent three years training fuel haulers. can’t remember 1 that didn’t have a c.d.l. when thyey started training.
Salty Lad says
The requirement is just for drivers with learner permits. If you have a CDL then you’re golden, at least according to the FMCSA(Schneider required an extra month when I started, and I still don’t know if even THAT was enough). What England wants to do is put people out on the road, before they are even licensed, with the only help available snoozing deeply enough to ignore the sound of a diesel and the road.
That kid could be passing you tomorrow.
Scared yet? I am.
Struggling says
In Illinois, an applicant also has to pass the third phase: “The Road Test”. I am just answering….
a. beatty says
Trucking has reached a sad state. Push the drivers to do more, more, more! Push the new trainees, that have absolutely no experience, to do even more–simply because the trainees really don’t know what’s really right and/or wrong, as far as regs go. If the Feds allow this, I know I will be getting off the road as a driver. Either to starve or work as a burger maker. I’ll get the same amount of respect for my skills
Rui says
This is like putting a loaded handgun in a kids hands n hoping they don’t hurt anyone.. insane.
Schlottmann says
I would’ve been very uncomfortable driving without cdl stamped on my license when i started. The new driver shouldn’t be driving at all without it. Of course that wouldn’t apply to a permitted trainee at a school. I drive locally and wont even go one day without my license.
The one thing i can say for Swift is the mentor was required to be in the passenger seat for the your first 50 hours of actual driving. My mentor was also willing to get out of bed if i got in a bad situation.
One problem with swift though, was they willing to let me train after 8 months of total time holding a cdl. Of course i declined.
Rob S says
The company with one of the worst reputations in the industry wants to put unqualified drivers out on their own because there is a driver shortage? Perhaps if they and the rest of the mega carriers paid and treated the drivers they already have well there would not be a shortage.
Jerry Diamond says
C.R. England is not special. The law in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the street, and to steal bread.
The law in question is based on safety. If anything, it should be more strict with company’s like C.R. England and require the company to not permit team driving at all until the trainee is fully licensed with several months experience and only then may the trainer be relinquished from the passenger seat and not before.
If an exemption is granted on the company’s financial claim the law is then corrupt.
Sue R. says
This is ridiculous! It is the unsafe training practices of the huge carriers that is causing the smothering regulations on the industry as a whole. A previous poster hit the nail on the head saying these companies should treat drivers better and they would retain professional, experienced people. We need the crack downs on these huge carriers on their safety and trading practices, maybe knock them back down to size. CRE you are insane.
Bill says
Check out there FMCSA snapshot. https://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/query.asp. Look at the accidents and fatalities at the bottom. The company I’m with is about half England s size and has had 1 fatality in the past 2 Years. England has 20. My company has had 120 accidents. England over 700. Hey numbers don’t lie. These are the dirtbag companies that force the hand of the DOT to pass tighter regulations.
mack43 says
you have to be kidding!
ss says
my husband is a phase 1 trainerand I believe he would be against thisI’m not sure why they’re asking for this but something does seem wrong about it ask for somebody being in the top box that’s definitely against policy against DOT policy also and as a student with that person I would refuse to move the truck until they netted up because it would go on your license also if you were to have a wreck and they get hurt because they were in the top bunk and you were driving and you knew my husband losses a lot of sleep when he gets a new student as he is one of the good trainers he actually cares about his students and what happens to them when they leave him he tries his best to prepare them and she doesn’t want to hear about them getting hurt out there because there was something that they were unaware of and for all of you out there who hate the net get used to it it saves your life as do seatbelts USETHEM I know a lot of you have family counting on you to bring home the bacon and come home safe not in a body bag so slow down out there on the ice and quit trying to play Mr badass super trucker cuz I guarantee if one of you take out my old man I’ll haunt your ass , or hunt you down if you live through the accident. because I am a woman who does depend on my husband my support As I am disabled and we have two grandkids who want to know their pop pop . so please slow down and stay safe out there this winter.
Old Guy says
There is no shortage of good drivers Only a shortage of good companies to drive for . Stop treating your drivers like crap and you might be able to actually get some drivers that actually want to work there .
Misterk says
I’m fairly new to driving a big rig, as of March of this year, and I think that is absurd! I had my CDL when I started my job but I was a student fresh fromCDL school. If I didn’t have a trainer, I would have been at a real loss! My company was great to me! I had an awesome and fun trainer as well.
firecracker 34 says
This a ridiculous request they’re asking for an exemptionfor something to do on a daily basis. I was unfortunate enough to work for themmy trainer had me work the graveyard shift while he sleptthis was brought to their attention and they did nothing. luckily I was just in the refresher course and knew how to drive.
Jean says
It wait for a big accident that will cost them millions and hits the news!
Rana Ayubi says
This is an interesting request from CR England. This company is based on the philosophy of “drivers are losers who have failed at everything else and need us to provide them work.”
I guess they are one need drivers specially those who can operate the vehicle with minimal training and no supervision.
Exemption should be granted for drivers. They must be accompanied by a trainer ( someone with more than 6months experience ) and that person MUST be on “OnDuty” status the entire time student is behind the wheels.
CR England, if in the business of producing quality drivers and put any value n the lives of their drivers and motoring public, they’d welcome the new rule.
You can’t have an untrained and unqualified person driving 40 tons of mass at a high rate of velocity on public highways without proper supervision, otherwise, they are just as dangerous as kids playing with a loaded gun.
Sindee says
Has anyone from this comment section actually filled out the formal comment form – FMSCA to file official comment? Comments here is informative but none of it counts! this is your chance to be heard…I just filed mine.
Derek says
Bump up for you. I just about said the same thing.
DontTredOnME says
I wrote a three paragraph comment to the official comment board laying out reasons this should not be allowed and everyone else here that cares about trucking or even the general safety of the roads should do the same. You needn’t be as long winded as I was; but, just letting the pols know that people are against this may give us a fighting chance against the lobbyists (I’m lookin’ at you ATA).
Just click the “Fill out your formal comment” link at the end of this article and then click the green “Submit a formal comment” button near the top right of that government page. You don’t even have to attach your name to your comment if you don’t want too
Steve N says
I’m confused, A permit holder can only drive if the other person in the truck is a “qualified driver trainer”? So if a buddy of mine had his permit I couldn’t let him drive my truck while I’m in it?
Gary Fowler says
That’s the rule as I understand it.
Drac1985 says
As if the new driver doesn’t have enough on his or her mind. Now the so called trainer will be in his or her bunk instead of the “shotgun” position providing insights and tips to help the new driver.
So CRE is in desperate need of new drivers. Gee, that’s a shocker. Based on the stories I heard from those that bailed I am surprised that they are still in business.
MountainMan7 says
Here’s an opportunity for former CRE England drivers who may have been forced to leave to let it be known. Are there some drivers who were starved out of work because they did not want to go along with their lease purchase offers?
sirbyrd says
Stop being a company driver…. Go on line and look for temp companies in your area… Get home everyday and receive hourly pay.
Rob says
From everything I’ve read on the forums at this site CR England already operates their drivers as teams. Maybe the FMCSA should look into that!
Gary Fowler says
CR England has the worst drivers I’ve ever seen anywhere. I drive for a food service company and I do get to see a lot of different carriers coming and going. Most are okay as a whole. Not CRE. Over yet to see one that can back a trailer up. They are the last company that needs that exemption.
James Emerson says
Seriously come on England….. How about you go accident free for 1 year and maybe then we should think about this dumb exemption
Derek says
Well, I hope that all the experienced drivers that know about the abuses and treatment to drivers CR England conducts will also comment during the open public comment on the federal register. Now is your chance to really be heard and effect change.
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/11/28/2014-28072/commercial-drivers-license-standards-application-for-exemption-cr-england-inc
Moving Forward says
Since C.R. ENGLAND (DOT# 28406) is currently flagged by FMCSA in the “Unsafe Driving” category, “this carrier exceeds the FMCSA intervention threshold relative to its safety event grouping based upon roadside data and/or has been cited with one or more serious violations within the past 12 months during an investigation”, doesn’t it seem odd that they would even consider that request from CRE? In addition, CRE currently has several thousand other violations listed on CRE’s SMS report that should wave a few red flags about giving them any kind of exception to the rules. Source: https://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/SMS/Carrier/28406/Overview.aspx
John K. says
Stay away from C.R.England! I went through the program and they shut me up in this really nasty hotel until they can get me a truck to drive. Been going on 4 weeks!! I need to make money to support my family!
Moving Forward says
Let me guess, you must be attempting to become a Company Driver instead of signing into their fancy lease program that smells like a scam? It’s amazing how many people that happens to… and watch out for the bed bugs, as numerous motels used by CRE seem to have them.
Jraulpilot says
We are all forgetting something; part of the problem is that “government” provides this companies with money Grants and tax exceptions for “training” these drivers.
So it is profitable for them to have driver trainees…….filling up “Team positions”. It’s being going on for years…!!!!
greg says
Suppose cr gets exemption and new driver has paper temp that expires in 30 days but cr keeps them out longer.now the temp has expired so the new driver is technically without a valid license. Are they also exempt from needing to have a valid license with them? It is said never hurts to ask but really you cant find time to get a new driver home to get real license before making them run as a team? I hope everyone here sends their opinions in as driver training is so poor already. My sister started driving has had cdl less than 2 months was asked by may to become a trainer? Dont care how good a drivet she is never chained no winter experience but trainer? & she ran over a cop car with a trainer sitting in jump seat.shouldnt there be 3 months of cdl or no accidents prior to being offered trainer?
William Brewer says
The Driving academies and “Training Companies ” just barely teach the basics and now CR wants special privileges cause of cost….what a joke…what would the cost be should they run over some one??? CR going to cover that cost??? I see so many drivers that should not be on the road by themselves….They have been trained just enough to get them in trouble…I see it ever day..Yes..I am a seasoned driver with many years under the belt… The teaching drivers don’t even teach them how to set up trailer right to be able to back into a parking space..much less even back at all….The other side is if the Companies would treat the drivers better then they wouldn’t have a huge turn over. I myself over the years driven for some of these companies..reason, I left treat was being treated like I didn’t matter….so no special privileges for C>R> England…suck it up1111
PFM says
Had an England “driver” hit me on the front driver side at the dock and take everything off to the nose of my trailer – luckily didn’t puncture my tank. He then pulled forward, ripped his door off and backed over it hitting me again. Was an easy straight see side backup that he tried to blind side in. He didn’t even know how to report it – I ended up talking to his Safety and getting the local cops out for a report. He asked me if I thought if this would affect his job – I told him to start looking for a new career. He had 4 months on the road. Tell the FMCSA Hell No!
GavinT says
Most seem to be missing the point here. After passing the written and driving part of the CDL test, CR does not wants to not have to then send the trainee back to thier home state to get thier CDL from thier local DMV. They want to be able to put the trainee in a truck with a trainer without having the full CDL lisence in the trainee’s possession. The trainee is qualified to drive a class 8 truck as they have passed the test. That is it. This ruling / exemption has nothing to do with the quality of the training, the length of the training period or the qualifications of the trainer doing the training. Those are totally separate issues.
Moving Forward says
When I went through their program back in 2011, one of the first things we had to do was claim our residence in Indiana and switch our regular license over to an Indiana license… and then when we passed our CDL in Indiana, it was mailed directly to the CR England offices for them to give to us. Then, after people wake-up and resign from England, we had to go switch our new CDL license back to the actual state we live in… seemed a bit fishy at the time and maybe that don’t even do it that way anymore.
Derrick Belton says
Let’s not forget how the black driver are treated by thoes in UTAL.
Jeffrey B says
Karma, I love her, she’s my bestie!! 🙂