A group of six drivers has brought a class action lawsuit against the FMCSA on behalf of all drivers whose non-pertinent information has been shared with companies through Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP) reports without their consent. The drivers are claiming that the FMCSA has no right to share any information not specifically supposed to be contained within the PSP reports. The suit seeks to claim $1,000 per offending PSP report issued for the drivers and for every member of the class which could potentially contain millions of truckers.
According to the suit, PSP reports are only supposed to contain accident reports, three years of inspection data, five years of crash data, and reports of “serious driver-related safety issues.” The plaintiffs allege that the FMCSA has “intentionally and willfully” included unauthorized information in PSP reports being sent to potential employers.
The additional information being sent to employers includes violations such as excessive weight, speeding in the 6-10 mph range, failure to use a seatbelt, use of a radar detector, violations of hours rules, incorrect logs, failure to use hazard warning flashers, and unlawful parking.
In addition to allegedly violating the 1974 Privacy Act, the drivers are claiming that sharing this additional information damages their reputations, hurts their earning potential, and limits their employment prospects.
Though the court will decide who may be eligible to be part of the class in the event that it rules in favor of the drivers, the suit claims that class members would include anyone who has had their non-pertinent information shared with a potential employer by the FMCSA as part of their PSP report.
You can read the whole complaint here.
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Source: thetrucker, fleetowner, overdrive, overdrive
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Sho-Tyme says
When can we start suing the FMCSA for Causing Unwanted Stress?
Tom.G says
Wow that’s a lot of truck drivers that they have all these records on them what a million and more,$10.000 a head. WOW
I think they have a lot of shredding to do.
MrNA says
I am so glad for this lawsuit. Kudos to you drivers who initiated this. You have my gratitude and undying support.
Anthony says
I want in where do I sign up at?
Kajidono says
This is absolutely true. The US Postal Service is forcing subcontractors to fire drivers for violations like speeding contained on PSP reports. Three similar violations of any kind and they will demand you be fired.
Brandyjowo says
You realize the speeding tickets show on your MVR right? And an MVR is cheaper than a PSP, most likely they’re getting that info from your MVR, not PSP. And really, most insurance companies don’t allow more than 3 moving violations on your MVR. They’re probably trying to step up their safety. You should be fired if you have that many violations. It’s not hard to keep a clean record, just takes a little effort and a conscience. My kids and I are on the road with you, I’d appreciate your safety.
Robert says
Does speeding mean the truckers are unsafe? What about the four wheelers who speed? Remember we are on the road too and we would appreciate them being more careful. The general public is so quick to blame the trucker in an accident. Here’s an idea, all you four wheel drivers out there start demanding to be held accountable the same as truckers. Demand the same rules and regulations as truckers put up with everyday. When you can do that then you may complain all you want about truckers. Until then remember we aren’t joy riding. We are trying to do our jobs with a bunch of whiny children running around our office. If you don’t have to be on the road help the truckers and the country and stay off the roads. Take responsibility for your stupidity and stop using the truckers as a scape goat !!! Good day
Thomas Mears says
Robert July 25, 2014 at 4:01 pm
Does speeding mean the truckers are unsafe? What about the four wheelers who speed? Remember we are on the road too and we would appreciate them being more careful. The general public is so quick to blame the trucker in an accident. Here’s an idea, all you four wheel drivers out there start demanding to be held accountable the same as truckers. Demand the same rules and regulations as truckers put up with everyday. When you can do that then you may complain all you want about truckers. Until then remember we aren’t joy riding. We are trying to do our jobs with a bunch of whiny children running around our office. If you don’t have to be on the road help the truckers and the country and stay off the roads. Take responsibility for your stupidity and stop using the truckers as a scape goat !!! Good day
This statement should be printed in every newpaper and magazine across the country.
Widedomain says
Brandyjowo… Most of the “violations” listed on the PSP report never show up on an MVR because no citation was issued… The listing of these law violations are unconstitutional as the driver doesn’t have any recourse for due process.
He or she never get their day in court to defend themselves against the charges.
WING says
Say Brandy…..we as drivers would appreciate your safety also. You might be a driver your self.
so…do you follow the Smith System Rules…such as getting the big picture?
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=the+smith+system+rules.
the link is one of many with pdf ‘s you can print out. I am not part of the company.
When I was in kindergarten , we had a road course with tricycles, stop signs and crosswalks, along with peddle cars. You had to pass the driving course to pass kindergarten. A popular class. You can start early with your children.
36 years here with no speeding tickets, dui’s or accidents….and I and others can attest that teaching kids early, when they absorb things best….pays off.
What we as professional drivers are seeing and experiencing, with high traffic congestion, poor truck driving schools(not weeding out the incompetent, no down the road review of a new driver and his/her performance record, no remedial training or testing,etc.), cultural distractions and brainwashing by media and electronic toys (computers,smart phone and such, texting while driving, gps screens, and more), is litigation in the forms of FMCSA non-nonsensical rules and regulations, revenue collecting officers and DOT inspectors (both during road side and company audit), the up and down roller coaster micro-managing of FMCSA/NHTSA/DOT on HOS(hours of service) , large lawsuits against companies and drivers, see recent Walmart and FEDEX, and Bhandal Bros. events and judgements.
The general public hates truck drivers. They do not care from whom their bread gets buttered, only that they get it. When they want it , which is yesterday. The general public comes and goes as it pleases on the same highways as we truckers, any time of the day or night, without general restrictions on movement.
Grandma or Grandpa, with health problems and many prescriptions, and no pre-drivers license drug screen…, pot smokers, drunk drivers, mothers with children, putting on make up, etc. . How many know not to ride in a truck’s blind spots or where they are? Or not to drive into the front of a truck’s stopping distance and safe following space?
All the electronic distractions that are being placed in trucks, now and in the near future, are dangerous to the safe operation of the truck. Alarms for out of lane, VORAD, LIDAR, in cab
drive cams, pointing at the driver and the sleeper, EOBR ,etc.. Continuous banter and preaching from the cheap seats to truck drivers about safety… from the NHTSA, FMCSA,DOT,MADD,PATT,PUBLIC CITIZEN,and those who think they know a truckers job better than a trucker.
There are more experts on trucking who want to drive the truck than the real truck driver these days…including the new computer driven truck that doesn’t need a driver…., an article just rolled out in Fleet Owners magazine shows the reality.
We used to be able to go out and do our job safely, with out all the distractions.
So it is no wonder that when drivers are suing for cause, they should also make a complaint to the EEOC and to OSHA, as a lot of this rancor from companies and government is an invasion of the drivers privacy and plainly blacklisting by companies (familiarize yourself with Hireright/DAC policies if you aren’t already).
The powers that be would have the general public believe that truckers are not private citizens.
Just research the Supreme Courts stance on logbooks….which are clearly meant to record criminal violations by the professional driver, and are standing against the Fifth amendment right of drivers not to incriminate themselves. See Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations,Part 395.8 (a) and so on.., requiring the Motor carrier to require the driver to use and record a log book. The ‘company’ or Motor Carrier, has been judged by our judicial system, to be an ‘virtual entity’, giving carte blanche inspection rights to the policing agencies that are supposed to regulate transportation movements in our country, the USA, controlled by the Commerce Clause in the Constitution, giving Congress power to regulate Transportation .
The myriad regulations and micro-managing from Congress and DOT,etc. , have caused for the professional driver, to become a criminal class indentured servant/slave to public and government whim and fancy. If you don’t think so, See Anne Ferro and her FMCSA comments to Congressional transportation committees/senators and nose thumbing to OOIDA ride along stunts.
We, as professional drivers, go out and do our jobs as safely as possible.
The general public has been brainwashed and spoiled into thinking that that nasty catch word
called “Safety” , will protect protect them from their own foolishness and ineptitude while driving on our nations highways and byways, without recourse on said same driving attitudes,
except for that provided by ambulance chasing litigators and their new media ads.
I congratulate the continuously safe , professional truck drivers and the motoring public who work together to keep everyone involved, as safe as possible.
Just remember…Safety is relevant to the situation.
It is not a Constitutional Right nor privilege…. it must be earned by constant vigilance on the part of every driver.
You will hear the argument that we as professional drivers, don’t have privacy rights….that banner is flown by Policing agencies and litigators, big industry that wants to sell you something.
I don’t know about you, but I didn’t sign a form waiving my privacy rights, so that
I could become a professional, safe driver.
The first and foremost responsibility for ANY driver…is to driver safely.
Stay Vigilant……
Candice says
Actually not all speeding violations that show on the PSP Report show on the MVR. If the driver was stopped for speeding but only given a warning and not a ticket it would not show up on the drivers MVR it would show up on his/her PSP report.
Cary Davis says
SO!?? Stop speeding! Why is it someone elses fault that a driver can’t controll his behavior? This attitude is right in line with the entitlement mentality!
ez says
lmao i see we have more defrocked priest on this forum, the holly then thos are coming out of the woodwork. yes this is coming from a driver who has not had a ticket in 23 years and one minor bent bumper in a truck stop in 1988.
Thomas Mears says
If you have three moving violations in a commercial vehicle in a given amount of time then probably you should be fired. Every one of the points that these six are suing over should be given to the employer but that is not how the law reads. The FMCSA is breaking the law.
luckytrucker1969 says
Who cares? Do nothing wrong and you have nothing to hide. Thats the problem with drivers today, they want to drive their trucks like their driving in nascar. No load is so important that you should risk lives of yourself or others. Obeying the speed limits, wearing your seat belt, using your flashers…all safety steps that EVERY DRIVER should be doing. We’re supposed to be professional drivers and with that title, we are rightfully held to a higher standard on the roads, even in our personal vehicles. As far as radar detectors go, well….thats a stupid useless law because again, if you obey the speed limit and drive like you have a brain, you have no need for a detector. Bad drivers giving good drivers a bad name by association.
For sure says
I agree, all those should be included. You just have these outlaw truckers with no brains driving around like they live in Russia. No more nanny state mentality. If you are a fail everyone should know.
Brandyjowo says
Well said! I agree. Professional drivers should have a way of standing out in the crowd, I personally love the PSP. I’ve noticed many drivers turn their ways around once they saw theirs. I did a bulletin board and posted ALL my drivers “points” as they would have had them if they showed using the PSP, some of the drivers who thought they were my best drivers had the worst scores. It was a wake up call for them and they started looking into what they could do to improve.
laura says
exactly! they want to say it’s the PSP’s fault they aren’t getting hired….it’s like talking to a teenager nothing is their fault.
Cary Davis says
Exactly Luara! Everyone wants a free pass when they unwilling to make the proper decision to driver within the legal restraints of the law!!!
ez says
yyes and the police should be able to knock on your door and walk in to search your house with out a warrant because only people with something to hide want the police to have a warrant.
luckytrucker1969 your are a fool.
Thomas Mears says
Every driver with a valid drivers license should be held to the same standard. This is about government overreach and using their techniques and the laws that they the government wrote to push that overreach back.
Robert says
You should re-read the article. You have no idea what the lawsuit is about.
Thomas Mears says
I know how the words in the article read. Let us suppose that the government wins their case and next year they start including health records, divorce records and credit reports. The law states that they can include “this”, but they also include “that” next they start including your school records and how you vote – conservative or liberal – is that okay?
agreenbee says
I think you missed her point…. I agree with her! Nothing is more important that the driver acting responsible this includes driving, log books, loading docks, etc. What is so hard about knowing and following the laws put in place to keep us all safe?
Nolapride12 says
I, as a driver with 11+ years and more than 2 companies under my belt, actually disagree with this suit! This is like a person(s) running rampant commuting petty crime and holding themselves to less than high standards and then expecting to be treated the same as those of us that bust our butts to keep our records clean, those of us that don’t speed, scale our loads, inspect out equipment and do what’s required of us by law! This is an afront to all of us that try hard to be the true definition of a ‘professional’ driver! If your upset about something in your pap report like such things as issues you yourself controlled and created then my advice would be to man up, stop harming yourselves thru petty violations and get a firm grip on your own record!!!!
Brandyjowo says
I’d hire a driver like you any day. I love to see ACTUAL professional drivers, and I will go out of my way to use them as examples to other drivers who need some guidance. Keep up the good work, and attitude.
MrYowler says
When you posted your driver’s “scores”, did you also post your own “score”?
I’ll say it again; a lot of violations that appear on the PSP never really happened, which is why they don’t appear on the MVR. Some violations appearing on MVRs never really happened; they are the result of negotiated plea agreements to avoid the expense and down-time imposed by taking the alleged violation to trial. It is entirely too easy to post a portable speed limit sign behind an overpass or tree limb, and catch out-of-town truckers that aren’t aware of the trap when they pass the obscured sign. Driver that carry radar detectors frequently do so, because the only warning that such a trap is in place, comes from the radar signal being broadcast by the patrol car behind that overpass. You won’t see the sign until it’s too late, if you see it at all – and that’s intentional. If you were a truck driver instead of a desk driver, you’d have seen these tactics in play, out on the road.
You’re not hiring necessarily safe drivers, Brandyjowo – you’re hiring lucky ones. Or drivers that rarely find themselves driving on unfamiliar roads. Yes, your drivers are probably safe ones – and so are a lot of the unlucky drivers that you are passing over, who fell into one or more of these traps.
Everyone has the right to privacy. No, scratch that – not everyone has the right to privacy – but everyone should. You have more than enough information to make good hiring decisions, already. You don’t need to know about things like citations that were thrown out.
Steve Bell says
An interesting interpretation or privacy and weather actions should have consequences…It will be interesting to see where the court goes with this one..
Cary Davis says
Driving behavior, egregious violations, and poor preformance have absolutely nothing to do with privacy, and EVERYTHING to do with trying to cover up their inability to drive safely!Learn to take safety seriously and STOP looking to blame someone else for your inability to conform like the rest of the hard working drivers out there that take their jobs sriously!
ez says
ahhhh yes you want everyone the to act just like you”” inability to conform “”, little scardy cat gets mad when they see some one getting away with something they are to afraid to do because they mite get caught.
WING says
Cary Davis….safety man and what is it ..25 years as professional driver?
Yet you sell your soul AND your privacy rights for a buck. That buck is the only difference between a professional driver and and the general motoring public. and that is to the insurance industry, the judicial system, safety people, and the general bottom line for the trucking industry.
How many insurance companies require a physical drivers road test review, for either a professional ‘new’ driver after one year, or review of driving record/logging skills,etc? Or for that matter, a new 16-18 year old driver and their driving skills after one year?
you do a great dis-service to professional drivers and the general motoring public, with this tongue wagging about this nasty word called ‘safety’. The overworked word ‘egregious’, repeated by parrots everywhere, equates to the phrase ‘criminal activity”.
Every professional driver sees the driver who drives like a professional,in the general motoring public . We appreciate those drivers, as they keep we, as professional drivers, safe also.
You, among many, have bought into the 1 per-center line that everything, including a professional drivers privacy…should be transparent. Sold….to the highest bidder.
Yet Grandma/Grandpa, repeat drunk drivers, drug addicts, don’t take a pre-drivers license drug screen, or post-accident drug screen, required of Professional drivers, after an accident, or to qualify them to drive, and certainly not a physical, which is now required to be on record on every professional driver’s home state MVR record. Another invasion of of a professional driver privacy.
yet, there is no parity or equality for the professional driver. Just pure discrimination in it’s many forms against us.
You might be better off going back to driving as a professional on -the road driver, rather than
preaching to the choir.
We’d all be safer….
Safety is relevant to the situation..
Stay Vigilant!
MrYowler says
They aren’t asking to cover up egregious violations. They are asking to cover up things that the regulation specifies as being irrelevant to safe driving – such as violations that never became convictions. Did you read the article before posting your comment?
Tim says
I think it’s about time somebody took this moment to seek justice.
It doesn’t matter whether that were right or wrong in the offenses made . What matters is just what they are saying …. That the FMCSA is charging them a fee of 10 dollars every 3 months to get a report that they can’t even claim is accurate and that this information is being used by eployers as a type of guide is making determinations of hiring and firing pracices .
Really people can’t you see they are screwing us .
The things they put on these reports at times don’t even have anything to do with the driver but rather the vehicle . Weight violtions? This doesn’t have anything to do with your driving . Some companies haul heavy and pay the weight fines on a regular basis because that’s how they haul their loads . Think about … WE are being discriminated . No regular individual has to worry about going to a job interview and the Human Resource department pull out a file on them and use it as a hiring negotiation ..
Brandyjowo says
Weight is under your control 100%, YOU can tell your truck is heavy. YOU can head to a scale to verify if needed. If you’re working for a company who wants to be overweight you should seek other employment. Drivers are in high demand right now, won’t be hard to find a better place to work. As far as accuracy, I haven’t found any errors on the reports I’ve pulled for the many many applicants I’ve screened, and the 250 + drivers that worked for me. If a roadside inspection has an error you or your company should Data Q it. You as the driver are in control of a LOT of things on that truck. If it’s not legal you should make your company get it right. If your company wants to use trucks that aren’t safe, then again I recommend a new job. But if you’re happy with the status quo then it shows the kind of driver you are, and your PSP is probably an accurate reflection of that attitude.
WING says
what do you need to censure now?
my comments are awaiting moderator review.
Anything I have posted is in the public realm….as in open to the public view via the internet, gnu or gui.
MrYowler says
Job-hopping gets you taken out of employment consideration by good companies. Only the giant, crappy companies will hire new, inexperienced drivers, so many have to deal with crappy equipment for the first year or two, like it or not. Weight can shift, and preloaded trailers that are picked up in a yard can’t be brought back in for rework or equipment repairs; you have to take them somewhere else – and you risk getting stopped along the way. Owner-operators frequently simply cannot afford the down-time because a carrier refuses to fix their equipment in a timely manner, and if you are leased to the company that you drive for (regardless of the corporate shell game to separate the lease company from the carrier), you risk your family’s livelihood and your credit score, if you have to sit on that trailer, if you refuse that load, or if you try to quit (violating your lease agreement). Your weight and the condition of your equipment is by no means 100% under your control; at one company I had “trainer” who refused to scale his load, and then expected me to drive it. As a trainee, I’m in no position to contradict him, when he claims that he knows his weight is legal, and although the company made him pay the scale ticket; I still got the violation and CSA points. And I would argue the accuracy of the reports that you’ve pulled, by pointing out that *you haven’t found* any errors. That you failed to find them, does not mean that they aren’t there. How hard do you look for errors? If an applicant claims that a report is in error, do you look into his claim, or just pass over the candidate?
The driver is 100% responsible for his weight and equipment violations – and yes, the driver has a great deal of influence in these areas, most of the time – but not always. And most of the time, even when violations take place, they escape notice. But it doesn’t take very long, or very much, to make a driver unemployable – or to reduce a driver to having to accept employment at a carrier that he doesn’t want to work for. 100% responsibility is not 100% control – and it’s worth noting that when a desk driver makes a mistake, it rarely carries the severity of consequences that a truck driver faces. When you make a payroll error, most of the time it my go unnoticed. Occasionally, it gets noticed, and you correct it on the next paycheck. If you don’t correct it, at worst, the driver quits, and you hire another one to replace him. If he missed that 40mph sign behind the overpass, in the construction zone with all the signs covered up and no construction going on, he’s going to spend the rest of his career driving a forklift truck for around $12/hour.
Is it any wonder that drivers are in such high demand, or that the industry is flooded with trainees bearing shiny new licenses? Maybe good drivers are simply too easily discarded by people that only drive desks.
Thomas Mears says
I had a woman stop on an interstate in a snowstorm whiteout. when I saw her I was doing less than the speed it took to push the car – get it? I hit her so lightly that I didn’t even push the car out of its tracks. No citations issued on either side; I supplied all pertinent paperwork that I had been issued to the State Trooper. I received in the mail a letter stating that my driving privileges are to be suspended (in that state) because I did not have valid insurance during the time of the incident. Even though I had been issued an Insurance Card and had watched the Trooper fill in the information into his report – seems the Leasing Company and or the Lessor Company of which I work for made a clerical error but I am going to lose my driving privileges. I contact the state and ask why am I losing my driving privileges when it was a cheese eating mid level management error and having been issued said documents and with no other recourse have to take said document on faith that they are both legal and valid – why was the state coming after me and not the company that issued fraudulent documents?
The reply was: that is how the law is written.
Long story short; when I was swinging a hammer, I never had to lie for a paycheck. I did my work and I got paid for that work. The laws are designed against the Commercial driver but only upheld on a subjective, prejudicial, bigoted – I don’t know what the word is but I have seen law enforcement let one person slide and throw the book at another because of perverted and wrong headed reasons.
Case in point: How many have come into contact with someone who was operating a commercial vehicle asking for direction and could not speak or understand English enough to ask for said directions let alone understand the directions given?
I have been given a speeding citation for one mile an hour over the speed limit but it was worded 1 to 5 miles an hour over and while citation was being written I ran out of hours of service to he added that he put me out of service for being over on my hours of service – I could see the truck stop where I was going to stop for 10 out the State Troopers windshield.
So: If there is a way to push back the draconian laws that are being enacted and used as a cudgel when they feel like it but let others (from distant shores) break the basic laws and get away with it; I say yea, stick it to em *%^&*&*%$E^ em!
I
Tim says
I think it’s about time somebody took this moment to seek justice.
It doesn’t matter whether that were right or wrong in the offenses made . What matters is just what they are saying …. That the FMCSA is charging them a fee of 10 dollars every 3 months to get a report that they can’t even claim is accurate and that this information is being used by employers as a type of guide is making determinations of hiring and firing practices .
Really people can’t you see they are screwing us .
The things they put on these reports at times don’t even have anything to do with the driver but rather the vehicle . Weight violtions? This doesn’t have anything to do with your driving . Some companies haul heavy and pay the weight fines on a regular basis because that’s how they haul their loads . Think about … WE are being discriminated . No regular individual has to worry about going to a job interview and the Human Resource department use a file from the government on them as a hiring tool .
Cary Davis says
All drivers have the ability to counter anything on a report. You obviously know nothing about the system. Educate yourself before complaining!
ez says
and how long dose that take, how much money do you lose fighting it and being blackballed.
why are we held to a higher standard then employees who are non drivers????
please do not say some public safety bs .
Jordon Haguewood says
But being successful is another matter entirely.
Thomas Mears says
Take one hill at a time. If are forefathers had put down the shot glass and taken off the party hat and held the (supposed) peoples representatives to the task, we would still have to take every hill – every generation. The government wants complete and total control, they get paid to harass and intimidate – we on the other hand get to spend our days off fighting it.
Thomas Mears says
Cary Davis,
That may be the way the rules are written but reality is more often far from that. You obviously don’t keep up with what is actually happening.
MrYowler says
You can also make a statement to be filed in your credit report, to argue your case about negative statements in your credit report. Do you think that lenders care what you have to say? Do you think that they even read it?
Do you seriously think that anything a driver has to say about his DAC or PSP report means anything to anyone? At best, it’s an opportunity to look like a whiner. At worst, it draws attention to things that you might prefer went unnoticed. If you were seriously interested in what drivers have to say about these reports, your comments on this forum would have a distinctly different flavor than they have had, so far.
Roger says
This goes no where. Driving records are public record.
Robert says
Actually they are not public records. That’s why you have to give permission for a company to check your record.
MrYowler says
The MVR is nominally public – the rules for access to MVRs vary from state to state. The PSP is restricted, and contains information that the MVR does not – such as violations that never resulted in convictions. Arguably, convictions should be public – I say “arguably”, because there is room for dispute about that, too. Things that you got accused of, but clearly did not do, should not be attached to your name at all, in any record, public or restricted. That is the point of the suit; such things are irrelevant to your driver safety, and therefore not supposed to be released – arguably, they should not even remain on record.
David says
American people need to wake up iF the government controls the trucks they control every American person in this country wake up that will make this a communist country worst than it already is. I can drive my truck 11 hours and then go get in my pickup truck and drive 24 hours stupid is that.these medical exams all drivers if you hold a driver’s license you should have to take a physical every two years there’s more accidents with four wheelers.government is forcing drivers to drive tired all drivers are not the same some can drive 5 hours ok some can drive 15 hours okaybut you gotta do the log book even though you’re not tired you still have to shut down once you shut down it might be too three hour before you go to sleep then you gotta get up and what 5 hours and go back to driving I stop when I get tired I might drive 3 hours and go I need our rest I’ll pull over give me an hour and go on I lose that time on my logbook I know when I’m tired but the government forces me to drive tired.
Cary Davis says
So the violations are relevant in determining the safety profile of a driver, but the drivers don’t want anyone to know. Nice. I would like to see the FMCSA just adopt regulations allowing this type of information. Personally I would not hire people with the type of egregious violations being mentioned. Why should these drivers get to hide this information? It is unbalanced to allow this type of behavior when there are so many drivers who try diligently to remain in compliance and drive safely only to allow a slacker to slip through the cracks and hide a poor safety record over a technicality. If you don’t want your piss poor driving record passed on to potential companies in the hiring process, then I would think the solution is DON”T be a piss poor driver!
ez says
i have a stellar driving / work record and believe this type of reporting is wrong.
all a company needs to do is run your dmv and that is all they should get.
Thomas Mears says
Cary Davis,
I think you would be much happier in a country like China. In fact the way you write reminds me of an FMCSA SHILL.
I had a Constitutional conversation with a State Trooper one time and he ended his argument with “we’ve moved past it”.
And this was my reply:
This country was founded as a Republic not a Democracy and documents were drawn up and ratified by the government at that time. If we have moved past the Constitution then let us open a Constitutional Congress and change it legally. By circumventing the Constitution with Executive orders and (illegal) precedent – is a way for an illegal government passing illegal laws to control a population without the possibility of redress – therefore you are a paid thug of an illegal government whose sole purpose is to force said government onto the people.
WING says
Safety profiling is discrimination in it’s worst form. No better than racial profiling..
It, simply put, allows a company/ insurance provider to use the slimmest of excuses and evidence of any kind, made up or otherwise, to discriminate against a good driver.
You and your kind , desire to criminalize every action and behavior, to micromanage and control every aspect of a drivers life, including their privacy.
Why do CSA records and the PSP hold against a driver longer than for a company??
The rules discriminate…that is why.
Your words are telling.
You would have us all as your perfect little robots.
Egregious violations? Like a single tail light out when 5 others are still lit?
small violations that are multiplied. And companies who won’t keep up maintenance?
Even when reported on the DVIR?
Unbalanced behavior?
It is unbalanced behavior for you to go looking into every incident like a peeping tom into a personal privacy window.These drivers have said enough is enough, and are now attempting to close the blinds so you can’t peep in. Over- reach on your part. The government is the same.
A true Constitutional Republic Values and Respects an Individual’s Privacy……
Thomas says
not to even touch base on the fact that a psp is a violation of due process. Weather u are guilty or not goes on that report. If you are found not guilty or otherwise charges were dropped or dismissed it still remains on that report. Dac is the same way. Its all government intrustion in our lives so they feel like big brother. How come we as america cant put all these regulations on our senators and congress just my thoughts thank you
James C says
I knew something like this was coming. Moreover, I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. When you push a class of people, and push them hard enough, they are eventually going to push back.
You can’t treat people the way the DOT and the FMCSA has been treating truckers and expect it to go down without a struggle. Rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution are being pressed to the edge of violating them. It doesn’t matter what excuse you have. In this case, it’s the safety of the motoring public. You are still starting to trample rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
And in this case, you are doing it with a singled-out class of people. It is the way many of us live. It isn’t just our jobs. Truckers are taking it this way.
The DOT and the FMCSA are going to need to wise up. They’re going to start needing to look more at the motoring public than at us. They keep pressing us, especially for the flimsy reasoning they’re claiming, there is going to come a day when stores, nationwide, are not going to have food on their shelves. Truckers everywhere, are going to get fed up to the point to where they revolt. What that means is not a storming of the White House, but a mass parking of trucks everywhere and goods not getting hauled.
Tim says
I derive a pleasantly sweet feeling of euphoria imagining anyone ignorant enough to claim the “why protest if you’ve got nothing to hide” argument walking along a city street when the police suddenly show up, stop and frisk them, tell them they physically match the description of a criminal they’re looking for, cuff them and take them off to jail. Imagining it’s a middle-aged white male in a suit and tie actually brings tears to my eyes.
MrYowler says
To be fair, the kind of cops that arrest middle-aged white criminals wearing suits, tend to be few and far between – and they tend not to treat their targets quite as poorly as the blue-collar policing variety does… 🙂
(Said by a middle-aged white guy who used to wear a suit…)
Gabo says
I believe FMCSA should follow into all drivers that drives cars, motorcycle, bus, train, plane, boats, and trucks. When it comes to being an unsafe driver, I bet there is about 90 percent of drivers that really are unsafe drivers. You show me a safe driver, and I’ll prove to you in videos how a person is unsafe. The majority of accidents caused by truckers was because of an unsafe car driver. Let’s be honest who really have blame.
Thomas Mears says
Hear, here.
There are some ugly and dangerous games being played by the civilians on the road now. Seemingly intensified by the failed actor Tracy Jordan. Who I would not put past, trying to generate a little attention, a sad little man who cannot stand not being looked at so in his roles on television to his part in this incident was so much a fool.
Case in point: On the Interstate running through a city, doing the speed limit, lanes beings squeezed by construction – pacing the car in front, an late model expensive car passes me on the right shoulder and then brakes – not a smooth “I need to slow a little to meld into traffic brake but a braking action that was designed for me to hit him – a statement braking. Had I not been paying attention to his little tissy fit, I would have hit him and been at fault – automatically. It would have gone on my record and I would spend months fighting to get it removed, in the end failing to do so – all on my precious little free time.
MrYowler says
…and burning up whatever savings you had left to live on, in legal fees, since you would almost certainly be out of a job…
ozzy says
Thease giant bottem feeder companies get away with anything…..
luckytrucker1969 says
EZ,
My response had nothing to do with police and a warrant. Imho, if the police showed up at your house to search it, odds are, they have a warrant and good reason. All you “drivers” with your remarks about the USA being turned into a communist country or those who agree that bad habits should be hidden, i say maybe YOU should leave the USA and go live your lives in a country where you can make your own rules.
If I apply for a driving position, I want the employer to see my record of safety. I want that employer to see that I take my job serious and even if the company isnt practicing safely, they know as I come in, I will operate in no other way. You guys speak of how its the 4 wheelers that are unsafe and I agree, they do a lot and just beg to be hit but I see on a daily basis commercial drivers speeding in construction zones, tailgating cars and other trucks, hard braking and erratic lane changes.
No, I dont want to live under the mighty thumb of government but until we as professional drivers can prove we deserve it, we’ll never be given more freedom. Besides everything else, look at how many drivers are coming into the united states who dont speak or read english and some how they get a cdl. Yeah….I really do want employers to know everything they can about them.
So yeah EZ, maybe I am a fool for a great many things but Im a safe fool, Im a responsible fool and if I ever go looking for a new driving job, odds are between my record and yours, I’ll be an employed fool. And one more thing, if you drivers think the police are out to get you, do like I did and spend $100 on a good dash cam instead of a dumb radar detector.
MrYowler says
Clearly, you are a lucky trucker. I’ve had the police break down my door when I was not at home, because a jealous neighbor who wanted my apartment, complained that I was mistreating my adopted stray cat. No wrongdoing was found, and no citation was issued, but they took the cat anyway because after destroying my door, there was nothing preventing the previously indoor-only cat from wandering out into traffic.
They searched my apartment, claiming that the complaint gave them probable cause, and doing a great deal of damage to my personal possessions, as well as leaving my home in disarray.
They then placed the complaining neighbor (with 8 felony theft convictions on his public record in that county) in charge of protecting my home and belongings, and left. Although my landlord placed a claim with the department for the damage dome to the entryway, no reimbursement ever occurred. The police declined to file charges against the complaining neighbor for filing a false report, despite my insistence that I was entitled to at least this much due process, up to the level of the police chief. I took my complaint to the Federal level, and was informed that the severity of the problem did not rise to the level necessary to justify an investigation.
Police are not always fair, balance, justified, acting within the law, well-informed, or even right, when they do what they do. Frankly, the difference between the psychological profile of a policeman and a criminal is statistically insignificant, and both fit the profile of your typical high-school bully. Your “ho” (humble opinion) is uninformed and inaccurate.
To your other points; the foreigners coming into this country and taking positions as truck drivers do not have PSP records, when they do so – so no matter how invasive these records are, they will not reveal anything about drivers that arrive fresh off the boat. And while I agree that a dash-cam is a good investment, I’ll point out that the first thing cops confiscate as “evidence” when they perform a search, is any recording devices or media that they find – on the principle that they may contain pictures of something that can be used against you, but also to prevent you from having timely access to the media, as evidence of their behavior – or to post publicly. Radar detectors serve a different purpose than cameras, and frankly, one front-facing camera probably isn’t enough in most circumstances, anyway. Many courts will not even accept the evidence as admissible, in any case. Another good tactic (in some jurisdictions) is a police-band radio scanner – but many law-enforcement agencies now use cryptographic techniques to defeat such scanners. CB traffic, scanners and radar detectors tell you when you are approaching the hidden trap or hazard. Cameras merely record you, as you fall into it.
If these are things that you were not aware of, and you still have a clean record, then you are indeed one very lucky trucker.
MrYowler says
I neglected to mention… They took my cat to a shelter, and delayed responding to my inquiry as to where they had taken it, until it’s time at the shelter had expired, and it was gassed to death. A far better alternative, apparently, in police estimation, than the suffering that it never experienced at my hands.
I. Lee says
The “privacy issues” being claimed by the class action suit are totally relevant to the pre-employment screening process. Now, if these PSPs are releasing information about, say, a driver’s sexual orientation or stuff that is irrelevant, then I would agree with the lawsuit. But including safety violations, overweight violations, speeding, seatbelt violations and any other violations relevant to their role as a Professional Driver is not a violation of your right to privacy. Let’s define the term privacy for a moment. Privacy- a) the state or condition of being free from being observed or disturbed by other people. b) the state of being free from public attention. These violations on record don’t fall within the realm of private information, because they are a matter of public record stored on your MVR, DAC or whatever other system of record. And for these drivers to claim this as a violation of their right to privacy is downright trying to keep the employers in the dark about how dangerous they really are. I wouldn’t hire drivers that clearly show total disregard for the safety of themselves and other drivers on the road. You aren’t driving a 4 wheeler that at most weighs about 2-1/2 tons, for the average driver. You are driving a 40 ton rolling fortress capable of decimating most anything in its path without a flinch. THAT right there is why truck drivers are held to a higher standard out on the road. It is just a shame that most of the drivers on the road only get about 3 weeks worth of training before they’re thrown to the wolves with an equally ill prepared trainer.
MrYowler says
Firstly; your MVR and DAC are not (usually) openly public records. Some states are more public with MVRs than others, but DAC and PSP reports require written authorization from the driver, to access. Most state MVR records are similarly restricted, and even when they aren’t, there is usually some requirement that the person whose record is being accessed, should at least be informed what was accessed, when, and by whom, and there is invariably some qualifier to access, to ensure that individually identifiable records are not just being accessed willy-nilly by curious strangers.
Secondly, the information that is being objected to, isn’t available on the MVR, and the regulations state that it is not supposed to be released in a PSP inquiry. Storing data is not the same thing as giving it to whoever asks for it, although it is still arguably objectionable, in that there would seem to be any valid reason to store data that is not supposed to be available to be accessed.
Finally, a tricycle is capable of creating conditions that cause an accident involving a tractor-trailer. You do not have to be driving the vehicle that you are involved in an accident with, and 2 1/2 tons is still enough to kill the driver of the tractor-trailer, if it impacts with enough momentum on a suitable approach vector. Once the tractor-trailer driver is dead, the truck is out of control, and can kill many, many more people, under the right conditions. 4-wheeler drivers should be held to the same safety standards as truck drivers, if for no other reason than because they are perfectly capable of causing accidents involving trucks. I think, however, that you will find that if 4-wheeler drivers were subjected to the same sort of invasive privacy issues – especially if they faced the same sort of employment prejudice based solely upon accusation – that they would rapidly either revolt at the voting polls, or revert to horse-and-buggy travel (in which the vehicle is perhaps a better driver than the person holding the reins). Truck drivers should not be held to a higher standard; *everyone* should be held to a higher standard. But there are still reasonable limits – and the retention and dissemination of information that is considered irrelevant, explicitly and by regulation, exceeds these reasonable limits.
It is entirely likely that the reason for the short training period for truck drivers, can be found in the high demand for them, which (in turn) results from the high turnover rate in the field. That high turnover rate may have it’s foundations in unreasonable demands places on drivers, including (but not limited to) prejudicial hiring practices based upon irrelevant information contained in highly privacy-invasive reporting databases. If you did this to payroll clerks, dispatchers, or human resources workers, you would probably see similar training and retention issues – and sometimes, you do.
Sean P says
This isn’t about what the driver is doing. It’s about what the PSP is authorized to release. Suppose your doctor was given an authorization to release medical records pertaining to what he and his practice has performed or found, but instead releases your entire medical history. What he performed may help show you are fit for the job, but the entire medical history may show that you are sickly and or accident prone. You have fixed those situations, and are healthy now, but are denied employment based on information no longer pertinent. Old speeding violations, load violations and log book violations should not be included. Many rookie drivers make mistakes in their first 90 days, that they learn from and correct. 5 years later they shouldn’t be punished for those errors, when they have demonstrated the ability to adequately perform their jobs.
Ron says
“information damages their reputations” Sgt. Savage ,and his fellow officers from the Ohio Highway Patrol cost me my CDL in 2005, just by doing this ! The FMCSA got my driving reord from Ohio that went clear back to 1964 ! The state of Michigan got a court order from Ohio Department of Public Safety to release it to them,because the accident had a fatality envolved in it. So if you think your state only goes back so many years I learned the hard way that this is what will happen.
Brian says
Actually, I agree with this lawsuit. If you are speeding, driving, recklessly, Not inspecting your equipment, not doing your proper pre-trip inspections, then yes, I agree you should not be in this business. I have been out here 19 years now, never a single ticket, and only 5 level 1 DOT inspections, all clean. I have a perfect driving record, so I understand where a lot of the folks here are coming from. Safety is key. But the trucker attitude is getting much worse. The reason I agree here is because this case is not about PSP reports and MVR records. This case is about the FMCSA overstepping their bounds as a government agency. It is not their responsibility to report private information.
gpsman says
The incompetent complaining about revealing their record of incompetence to those who depend on their competence, and in the interest of public safety. Good luck with that.
MrYowler says
The ignorant speaking out about their failure to read the article that they disagree with, in the interest of finding an excuse to feel morally superior. Good luck with that.
Ray says
Well, I could use an extra grand …
Old Guy says
The companies want you to speed. Their only concern is how fast their freight gets there .But then you get busted speeding, or have an accident or fall asleep behind the wheel because they run your ass off & all of a sudden it’s the driver’s fault. When do the trucking companies get held responsible ? It didn’t used to be this way back in the days before deregulation. When driving was Union, this used to be a great career choice . Not no more 🙁
Ray says
That’s why companies have csa scores.
MrYowler says
…which few if any shippers care about, which the DOT has yet to use to shut down any major carriers that routinely create unsafe conditions, and which stick to employers far less than they stick to the drivers…
This system was the outcome of lobbying by big carriers – did you really think that they would lobby for a system that seriously holds them responsible? The fines imposed on carriers are a pittance, compared to their revenues and profits, but the fines that drivers pay take food out their kids mouths. Seriously; if carriers were being held responsible, there would at least be a minimum wage for truckers, to ensure that the industry consistently compensates drivers for their long hours and substantial responsibilities.
What kind of talent do you think that the job will attract, when many of the starting pay rates for new drivers work out to less than the hourly minimum wage, working 60 hours per week – and in many training programs, they can’t even consistently achieve that? Some carriers pay new solo drivers $0.23/mile, and give them around 2000 miles per week. That’s $460/week (before taxes or expenses), or $6.57 per hour for the first 40 hours, and $9.86 for the other 20. That’s less than minimum wage. Do we think that McDonald’s workers should be held to the standard of responsibility that we hold truck drivers to? Why are we surprised at the quality of new drivers entering the industry, or the quality of training that they are able to afford? If we actually do raise the minimum wage – some are asking for $15/hour – what do we think will happen to the talent pool for drivers, who are not entitled to this protection, but are held to this high standard of performance?
Are we stupid?
derp. says
Hard to make a valid point on a page full of grudge holding dispatchers. Soon as they speak it is almost like intelligence gets vacuumed from the conversation. They will never see beyond that driver they hate because he won’t take their loads.
I think it is good that U.S. drivers can take advantage of their rights and freedoms by standing up for themsleves. But, I know, as well as everyone else, that this will be abused somehow, and less deserving individuals will receive benefits even though they weren’t harmed. The negative influence provided really has nothing to do with fmcsa, but the employers, who do next to nothing to monitor the child like mental incompetence of the reporting office personnel. (Personal understanding).
-Ever get a bad report for something you didn’t do?
-Of course not… 😉
me says
good someone is doing something to put an end to fmcsas rain of hate. maybe drivers will get a $1,000 for each report run under the drivers name. lord knows I could sure use the money now. I am one of the casualties of fmcsas rain of hate for truckers. I did nothing wrong. and I still got blamed for stuff I had nothing to due with. I can’t find a job anywhere because I was a trucker. I lost everything over fmcsa hate for truckers. I can’t get any kind of help from the state for food or living expenses. I live a life now that I never wanted. I punished for stuff that others did. it’s all I can do to want to wake up to a life of extreme poverty, near homelessness, hunger, anger, and hopelessness of knowing I no longer of a future to look forward to. and no income to support myself with… thanks fmcsa for putting me into a life I didn’t want. and thanks for not caring if I starved to death over blind hate and wrongful discrimination by high paid government workers who don’t have to care about if,when, and where there next meal was going to come from…
Flower child says
Government is out of control. Period. They want so few companies that they can easily control them. Fascism is what is happening here now plain and simple. GM, Banks if the sheep don’t wake up the “fundamental transformation” will be complete! He told what his plan was! When he took office he did his best to destroy us!
MrNA says
I am so glad for this lawsuit. Kudos to you drivers who initiated this. You have my gratitude and undying support.
Donnie says
Its hard to imagine that anyone thinks the PSP is a good idea. Two years ago I was stopped for doing 58 mph in a 45 mph zone. Cop was approaching me approximately 100 feet from the 45 mph sign. A Log Truck was pulling out of a driveway just before the sign. After stopping me, the officer assessed the conditions and acknowledged that it may have been difficult for me to know where the speed limit changed. He decided to write me a warning ticket stating that it won’t hurt me any and he has to demonstrate that he’s doing more than just riding around playing the radio all night, (citation quota) The warning ticket does not show on my MVR, however it is shown as a violation on my PSP classified as unsafe driving. Interestly, I was not charged by the officer at the scene but yet ajudicated quilty and penalized by a data entry clerk. If their is going to be negative consequences , higher insurance or refusal to hire, based on the information then we must have due process and recourse. I did not challenge the warning ticket, now its chiseled in stone in some data base and affecting my earning potential. My MVR has shown no violations in 21 years ,but the PSP is costing me money. Challenging the policies is the only way to keep things fair