As promised, the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association has filed a motion to block Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs) from being required in commercial motor vehicles. In their motion, they called the rule “arbitrary and capricious” a total of 10 times and questioned whether the rule could be unconstitutional.
ELDs are also known as Electronic OnBoard Recorders (EOBRs) and E-logs, and they are used by carriers to replace the pen and paper logs that drivers use to keep track of their hours. Proponents say that they are more accurate and some provide features such as being able to provide data on a driver’s location, performance, speed, fuel efficiency, braking speed, and other information.
The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FCMSA) believes that ELDs will make the roads safer, but even setting the much-discussed issue of privacy aside, OOIDA claims that there isn’t any proof that ELDs actually do reduce crash risk.
In the motion they filed on Tuesday the 29th of March, they point out that even the FMCSA has admitted that there’s currently no way for an ELD to automatically log on and off-duty time, so a driver would be required to manually make that change. According to OOIDA, because a manual change is required, ELDs “provide no advantage over paper log books which also require drivers to enter changes in duty status manually.”
In fact, OOIDA claims that during the public comment period on the ELD rule, drivers commented on how easy it would be to mask Hours of Service (HOS) violations using ELDs with manual changes. The FMCSA final rule doesn’t take that into account and OOIDA says that the FMCSA is “relying on nothing but wishful thinking to support its assertion that HOS compliance would improve.”
The motion also calls into question the validity of several other FMCSA arguments including their cost benefit analysis, their compliance analysis, and their claims that ELDs won’t be used to facilitate driver coercion.
The entire brief reads like a scathing indictment of a poorly-executed rule which was proposed by an arrogant government agency which doesn’t feel the need to properly study the possible outcomes of its rules before forcing them upon millions of professional truck drivers.
You can read the full 60-page brief here.
Source: fleetowner, ooida, wsj, ooida, trucknews
Lance N. says
Because pressing “on duty” or “off duty” is sooooo hard.
J Carter says
You’re missing the point. Drivers can falsify their logs just as easy with the ELD as they can with paper logs. The only difference with ELDs, drivers won’t be able to violate the 14 and 11 driving hours rules, like they can now with paper logs. Once you start driving (which the device automatically logs and you can’t change) the 14-hour clock starts ticking. The big argument here, is that a driver can spend a whole day working on a dock and still log it off duty if he wants to. Flatbedders took advantage of this a lot.
For myself (I drove flatbed for years), I’d log myself off duty as soon as I arrived at my shipper, then spend the whole time in off duty status. Then, I would go back into the ELD before I left, and edit in what I thought was a good estimate of the amount of time I actually spent working, as on duty.
Which is the exact same thing I was doing back when I was doing paper logs.
Nothing will change, except better enforcement of the 11 and 14 hour rules. Oh and driver coercion. All a dispatcher has to do is glance a t a computer screen to see what your hours looked like. Wouldn’t matter if you were tired, sick or whatever – if you got hours, you’re gonna drive’em.
I am in complete agreement with the OOIDA. The ELDs will change largely nothing. And in some cases, make a truck driver’s job more stressful.
I’ve argued before, and I’ll argue again and again and again; you want to stop the gross numbers of fatalities on our highways? Start cracking down on the 4-wheelers. Study after study shows that over 80% of car vs. truck crashes were caused by the car.
Stop beating around your favorite buzz word of the day bushes, congress, and start trying to do something that actually makes a difference.
Charlie says
It’s not about safety. It’s about money and control.
Mark Anglin says
Exactly …it’s all govt BS ..and am shocked at the number of knuckleheads truckers who just go along with all of this ..
david says
They love them I see them coming in the truck stops tired and worn out trying to beat that 14 hour clock .Real safe right
J Carter says
What’s to be shocked about? Truckers are going along with it because they don’t have a choice. There are too many state cops out there too eager to write tickets and shut drivers down for violating the rules.
And before anybody says ‘strike’, don’t be naive. Truckers can’t strike. They don’t have a union. There isn’t any way for truckers to strike and feed their families, keep their house payments up, etc. There is no support for that kind of action.
As for the OOIDA, what are they, really? I’ll say in a heartbeat and fully agree that they have the best of intentions, but in reality they’re little more than yap dogs up there annoying legislatures. If the OOIDA was really serious about affecting change, they would stop with the (pointless) lobbying, and start trying to get something really organized – like just such a union.
Were a union formed, things would start to change. If the U.S. economy became aware that truckers really did have the support infrastructure necessary for a strike, things would start to change fast and drastically. Until then, it’s all little more than smoke and a whole lot of noise.
The way truckers can help with this, is to stop calling each other knuckleheads and starting trying to find ways to bring heads together. Truckers need a back end to help them – they need a power infrastructure to support them.
Until something like this actually happens, all the griping and complaining in the world isn’t going to do any good. Government is going to just keep right on trampling right over truckers. And all people like the OOIDA are going to be able to do, is ask nicely for the government to not step in our faces the next time.
Gary says
As far AS OOIDA being a “yap dog” you need to research their history. They have stopped legislation that would have been detrimental to the drivers. They have shut down carrier’s illegal actions against their drivers. OOIDA is a much needed organization trying it’s best to protect the rights of drivers. As far as unionizing; that is illegal as we all represent different companies and it would be perceived as collaboration and price fixing. So “QUIT YER BITCHIN” and join OOIDA in the fight against our “rights”. It’s a David and Goliad thing !!!
Zaphod Beeblebrox says
The most intelligent post I have ever read!!!
EZmule says
We don’t need a union. All a union ends up being is another organization that takes advantage of the workers working for the corporation.
All truckers needs to do to strike & feed our family is work 2-3 months straight & save. Then go on strike together @ the same time.
Dianna Granados says
Perfect!! I agree with your statement about calling each other names. We are one. We need to support each other and work together. Your words are perfect! Thanks
James Kossman says
Under federal law independent contractors cannot form a union, owner operators fall under “independent contractor” the only way to have a voice is a squawking OOIDA. Ad for a strike, good luck on getting two truckers to agree, it’s been said before that you can’t get two truckers to agree on the price of a free cup of coffee. Uder new anti terrorism laws a strike that causes harm to the us economy could be deemed a terrorist act. The only way to combat this is to squawk at for politicians, stop loading cheap freight , stop driving for mega carriers that pay cheap wages, if they don’t have drivers they can’t get loads.
MrYowler says
By the time that we unionize, self-driving trucks will be a reality. Moreover, *while* we unionize, they bring in new drivers from overseas, and enable Mexican and Canadian carriers to take up the slack. There is no longer power in banding together. It only makes us neighbors in the poorhouse, or cellmates. Wage slavery is a real thing, and we’re it.
Kurt Halper says
Absolutely this. Problem is you’re never going to get them to stop calling each other knuckleheads.
Gary says
It’s actually a lot easier than paper logs…
George says
yes, everything is about the money
J Ossowski says
If it were about safety, wouldn’t EVERY driver be required to maintain a log book? Imagine the assembly line employee who, after an 8-10 hours shift, drives an hour home through “rush hour” traffic, spends two hours loading up the gear and boat/camper trailer and heads three or four hours (in light traffic) “up north” for a three day weekend. Are they any safer than a professional truck driver after 11 hours behind the wheel?
Robert says
First of all it is a matter of cramming this down drivers throat. If it was about safety lets collect all the guns so there will be no more gun problems. Oh wait you scream 2nd amendment. Well I scream 1st and 5th amendment. 2nd the unit do put you on duty with out your input “hello” only a mindless fleet rookie driver would not understand why forcing this crap on a driver is wrong.
Cary says
It’s the ability to use the on and off duty in a false manner that I question. There is no difference between this and a paper log!
Mark Anglin says
That’s not the point ..it’s govt intrusion ..any idiot knows when he’s tired/fatigued ..and the whole idea of the HOS philosophy inhibits commerce ..
EZmule says
Amen Mark
Tim says
Yes, if you want to be a controlled puppet go ahead. Not everyone is fine with being overly controlled.
JT says
I agree with you but for now OOIDA IS THE BEST heck it’s all we got.Any chance of all Truckers joining as a Union is next to nil.Been in this business since the 70 s nothing had changed, we just take what the government hands out? I guess we get what we deserve
Josh says
If you’re running legal, the elogs actually give you more time, at least on your 70. If fueling only takes eight minutes, it only takes eight minutes, not a full 15.
Plus, you don’t have to write as much, and police and DOT see the computer and don’t even question it.
No worries about smudges on your paper getting extra scrutiny, or forgetting to write something down and getting dinged for it.
Plus, even if you do go over hours, if you have a good reason, you just call your safety department, and they tell you “We’ll make a note, thanks for calling. Stop as soon as it’s safe to do so and take your break.”
And you run out of hours on the way home? As long as you’re not taking a load home, you can get off-duty personal driving time.
I like them, but I don’t think they should be mandatory. There are ways to cheat them, easily.
Doug says
Your safety department may handle running out of hours that way but the vast majority do not. You are still in violation of the HOS rule and if something happens its your a$$ cause they are going to fire you so quick. Also as far as off duty driving there are rules about it. Its not just I am going home I can use it. http://www.jjkeller.com/shop/Category/content_category_Transportation_article_What-is-personal-conveyance*072014_10151_-1_10551
Fred says
Your f$cken stupid dont comment here your just part of a system of giving up.your rights yet again i guarantee your just a steering wheel holder who probably makes 40 cents per mile and stays on the road 3 weeks with no home time and think you’re making money lol
Darin says
Fred, You have an opinion, and that is right that you do. But why do you get hostile and use “simulated foul language when another driver states his opinions. He even stayed that he didn’t think they should be mandatory for owner ops. You are trying to ridicule him for exercisin his freedom speech. Are u a democrat? Because you are using their play book. If u don’t cheat your logs, then it makes no difference whether u use paper or elogs. If you do cheat then you are a liar. That signature is your word.
Fred says
If you like your elpgs thats your right and your problem i want my right to drive paper logs.
If its too hard for you to right your stuff on a piece a paper you must be retarted go back to McDonald’s leave this to the real truckers.
Tim Hendricks says
I agree Fred and anytime there is a log violation found by DOT on paper then that driver gets a hefty fine and a 7 day shut down and the truck don’t move. Those against ELD’s are simply the ones that want to run against the regulations. If you can not do it legally on a ELD then there is no way you can do it legally on paper.
Cary says
You can cheat ELD’s, so your point is meaningless!
don says
U are full of s hit, been doing this for over 40 yrs, I run Legal i don’t need a ELD TO TELL ME WHEN AND HOW TO DRIVE MY TRUCK, and how do u come off with a 7 day shut down, the most they can do on a log voi. is 10 hrs, and they can’t shut the truck down at all, u are shut down,not the truck, u need to go back to pumping gas, cause u dam sure are not a drive,
Fred says
Amen to you brother these eld drivers dont get the point i bet most of them are working for jb hunt swift werner etc… they are slaves with no rights
EZmule says
Calm down, Don! You are 100% correct. I didn’t know what they were talking about with the 7 days. And yes the truck can move, it’s the driver who can’t.
Keith says
Could not be said better don. This industry’s been fine for years and years why n the hell change it now. All these damn Eletronics need to be done away with.
JT says
Agree with you 100%
Jason Kane says
Fred, before you go calling someone “retarted”, you should first learn some basic spelling. We’re talking 3rd grade stuff here, man!
Write*
Retarded*
MrYowler says
“write”, and “retarded”…
If you’re going to question someone else’so intelligence, rather than challenge their point/s, then at least show some intelligence of your own.
Gladigotout says
Well spoken brother…….BIG brother.
EZmule says
1st. It takes more than just a few seconds to switch from driving. Which is a problem when you are running short of your hrs.
2nd. If it takes less than 15 min to fuel or pretrip; if DOT notice that you are off duty before or after, they can fine you for falsifying. The law still stays 15 min.
3rd. Off duty driving. Is only for use; to go home empty only after you leave the terminal. It is put into place for OO to get home after their week or weeks out, with their tractor.
4th. If you go over your allowed hrs of service. Excuse or no excuse. DOT can still fine you & put you out of service. They believe that we have plenty of time to get the job done & stop to take our breaks before our time runs out. It is up to the officers discretion & not what we believe.
Fred says
No one cares about you and your elogs seriously your opinion can f$ckoff they’re fighting for us not for steering wheel holders like you
Kevin says
You are a f*ing *sshole! That is my only point.
Tim says
You are incorrect. With elog you only need to be onduty for 5 mins for all of your onduty. Argue all you want I’ve had my logs audited more than a dozen times. The company makes you do it for 15 mins.
david says
Only one problem human nature will take over and in the back of your head you are thinking 8min 2min what ever not safe driver. I see you lover of ELD drivers you don’t look good you guys look stressed and always in a hurry to beat that live clock. You cant put time on safety its deadly. You trying to remember to push off duty will make you forget more important things.
mpow66m says
Whats next…in cab cameras,on guard,lane avoidance sensors,no eating or talking while driving…even with blue tooth.Seat belt sensors,hard braking sensors………..
Dianna Granados says
Right
James Kossman says
You do not have to log a full 15 minutes on a paper log, you can log only 7 minutes, there is not a regulation stating that it must be logged in fifteen minute increments, if you arrive at a location. E-logs are becoming mandatory because DOT officials can’t figure out there own rules, I run a split sleeper, and you can’t imagine how many DOT idiots don’t understand the regulation, e-logs don’t save time, they waste money, they are only there so your company can look at your time, and see that if you have hours to run at midnight they can ride your rear end, for you to keep running even if your tired. Don’t fall for the time saving BS line they cram down your throat, Government officials will use the locations of commercial vehicles to try and pin any illegal activities on truckers, next they will be asking for our DNA, because everyone knows truck drivers are all a bunch of dirty filthy, drug using, criminals.
Jason Kane says
Josh, if something (such as fueling) takes only 8 minutes, you do not have to log a full 15 on a paper log. You simply annotate the activity at the appropriate time interval, and when you write in the location, you simply write how long it took as well.
BitBucket says
Regulations are made by people with law degrees and no clients.
J Carter says
You said a mouthful there, brother. 😉
John says
Every initiative the government has forced on us in the past 5 years will be responsible for the largest driver shortage in history. They got this one right though, and it will do as much for transportation safety as the cdl program. All you owner operators are part of a rigged system and if you haven’t realized it yet. It will only be a matter of time before you do. Cheating a comic book so you can run around the clock is only prolonging your bankruptcy.
Danny says
I do like using my own elogs because like said earlier, you can use less than 15 min for an event, and it’s way easier to correct a “mistake” than tearing out a loose leaf sheet and rewriting the whole day like I may have had to in the past. What I don’t want is the gov’t telling me to spend a bunch if money to add a computer to my truck to appease them. I already have enough operating expenses, don’t need any more, especially not from a politician that’s in bed with EOBR manufacturers….
Bo Hunt says
Those against the change want to run illegal. Pure and simple. No other reason to be against ELDs. They should revoke the CDL of anyone who jumps in on this lawsuit.
Rufus Crank says
My comment is simple. Elogs dont force me to rest,they force me to drive. I am the greatest safety feature put in my truck because i decide when and if my truck gets put into traffic.
Bob S says
But how else are unscrupulous brokers going to get their illegally scheduled loads delivered. You know the ones….pick at 16:00 & deliver at 07:00 the next day 800 miles away. We all know the REAL reason they don’t want to go electronic….won’t be able to play catch-up anymore……
Dominick says
ELD is for Companies to control their Truck Drones.I
feel you should have a choice it’s really the same thing.If your Eld broke you go to paper right? It’s about control and costing Independents money. They want lease purchase O/O (Indentured Servitude) Drones and Regular Drones.I will like to see the real benefits of the Elog besides laziness of the Drone,Safety and DOT. Speaking of DOT to say my Entries on my paper logs holds less weight than Elogs is egregious. This industry has changed into if the FMCSA say its good for us we follow? I.e. 34HR reset 5-5 once every 7 Days,30 minute break that can force you to take 2 of them racing the clock.ELD should be required for Megas and whoever has over 100 Trucks.
EZmule says
I still believe that the most important fight should be against the current log laws. I don’t see how we can win against the e-logs stating that, “it forces us to drive tires, or that it forces us to drive when we don’t want to.” Also the fact that with E-logs, we can’t adjust the drive line easily without leaving a trace, or easily lie is one of the main reason for not liking it. Is proof that we need to fight to change log laws and the hours of service regulations.
Tim says
OOIDA should using this occasion to shoot as many arrows as they possibly can into the heart of the HOS rules, not some electronic gadget. In my opinion the biggest problem with the ELD discussion is it suffers from garbage-in-garbage-out syndrome. The HOS rules make no attempt to preserve a driver’s sleep cycle. The rules have other problems too, but that’s the worst in my opinion. Since all driver logging is based on the HOS rules, it almost strikes me as disingenuous for OOIDA to be throwing such a hissy fit over the ELD’s themselves.
Tim says
Again I can’t say this enough, it’s the whole logging enterprise that needs to be under discussion.
Everyone knows that the primary difference between electronic and paper is that with paper, the driver is more easily able to “break the law” in hypothetical situations that are within reasonable limits, like driving an extra minute past your eleven to get to the truck stop instead of parking overnight on an interstate off ramp. OOIDA is having to rhetorically contort themselves every which way to get around a massively large elephant in the courtroom: they’re basically pleading with the government to let drivers break the law. OOIDA, I hate to break the news to you: that elephant’s way bigger than you seem to think it is.
James says
ELDs may make sense from a large company perspective where the drivers are monitored. This article is arguing more from the OO point of view. When it’s your own truck & you keep your own log, it doesn’t matter if you have paper or e-logs, they are as legal & accurate as the Driver keeps them.
When you pay for the device, installation, & give up space in your truck because some agency decided they can keep you & the public more safe without proof, you have to think about why they have pressed so hard to get these into everyone’s truck.
Voluntarily you can do whatever you want, but don’t tell me I have to.
Now, tell me I get a rebate or tax credit on the thing & that I won’t be monitored by satellite & the DOT will let me roll by saving me 30 minutes at the state line, then I might consider using an e-log, but things are fine now without more electronics that require a technician to service every time it glitches.
Jeff A Pearson says
This was taken to court a few years back.. Court told the feds NO.. and now they are trying again.. What is it with this administration? They think that they can find a judge that will say YES.. YES… YES? By now we should all know who is pushing for this… And why they are.. And when they do they think that they will slow up the freight and they can get higher rates and bigger in size.. Quite a few years ago Rockerfeller thought he could do the same thing with Chevron.. And the government made him split up his company..
Darkwardrums says
Nevermind that the biggest HOS problem is the oppressing 14 hour rule, that’s what is forcing us to drive before it runs out and you HAVE to sit for 10 hours. It’s our right and discretion to drive and rest whenever our bodies tell us to. It’s the FMCSA getting in the way of our good judgment by being the babysitters. The main issue here is the fascist government trying to erode our rights away in the name of security. Don’t you new drivers realize that them knowing your exact position down to a 30 yard radius is unconstitutional and a gross overstepping of your right to privacy? Sure they have they right to locate their equipment but they don’t have the right to track you. That’s the argument of the OO’s. Stay the hell out of our business!
david says
ELDs with the 14 hour clock are a deadly combination. How many people will have to die before the people who know nothing about trucking realize they were deadly wrong.
ALBERT DEDMON says
One of the most difficult learning experiences I had was going from paper logs to ELD’s. My mind would not let me accept all the new regulations that went along with there usage. Being a political junkie I know the rules are made so states can have a legal reason to increase their incomes with fines and not improve safety on the roads. Want to increase safety? Stop letting illegals into America who don’t have a license from Mexico or know how to drive. Stop selling alcohol in truck stops and convenience stores.
The last thing us drivers need is more government controls. We all know those laws are only used to raise money by local governments in liberal states, who don’t know how to control their spending.
The best change I saw was when drivers were allowed to use loose leaf logs. I stopped worrying about some zealous state rookie patrolman would ask, “what happened to the missing pages”? After seeing nothing but ends of log pages left in my log book they would attempt to prove how smart they were by going thru the process of trying to prove I had lied on the pages before and after the spaces.
I always drove more miles safely when I could control my own rest times. My body has never adapted to a 30 minute rest break. What a fringing joke that idea is. I put on paper when I needed to cover some drive time.
When I’m forced to join a damn union on top of all the other controls I have to deal with, that will be the day I apply to for funding a new rocking chair from Social Security.
I just couldn’t get used to the idea that some SOB sitting on their can in an office was controlling my work day. Who were they too tell me when to take a rest or go to sleep? That damn thing couldn’t tell if a rest area had an empty spot for me to pull into or if some tired trucker took up two spaces because they couldn’t park straight.
Mark says
The problem is not the ELDs. It’s the idiotic rules, created by paper pushing, know nothing bureaucrats, that the ELDs enforce.
Matthew A Purcell says
Most of you more than likely all were born long after the regulations. So my point is these regulations where in place long ago, and ever changing. When you were licensed to operate a commercial vehicles you new these rules regulations would effect your daily activities. What has happened most of you jump on the ban wagon with others you don’t like the government regulating your daily activities. So sad to bad those peste
Paracites will alway be nagging us. Point if don’t like the nagging McDonald’s is hiring, or jump on walfare so what nagging is really about.
Personally change speed limit back to the national speed limit of 55
Speeding fines of $2500
Paper log volations $500 place out of service 5 days right at the scale house.
Found to false log 1 week jail sentence
Run off in the median 1 year driver suspension.
Cause accident drive fault revoke of CDL
Tailgating lifetime revoke of all driving privileges
All paid by the driver will cure the problem of this bad behavior.
This should to a fire storm of comments.
Act like a knuckle head be treated like one very simple.
Just a recommendation LOL
Don’t get me wrong I don’t like the government personally the can kiss my donkey but I’m not going to look for trouble.
Dave Titus says
In a situation where pickups and deliveries are random all over the country, even the current HOS laws are counterproductive to both efficiency and safety. I own half interest in a car hauling company and drove myself for some time, and sometimes I was pressured to drive when I shouldn’t have, just to get in miles before my 14 hours ran out, when if I could have taken a nap for a few hours and then drove later I would have been much safer. Again several times we were within a short distance of home for a weekend rest, and run out of driving time. What do I do? Can’t loose the load when it’s cars to be delivered the next week. An extra hour of time can be adjusted for on paper. And an older experienced DOT weigh station official even told me once to adjust where needed, he realized perfection was impossible. Heard of one case where a driver had ten miles to get to a decent truck stop when his time ran out, he got off on a side road and drove 10 MPH for an hour to get there. That’s loosing 50 minutes rest just for an inflexible electronic recorder. Pretty stupid I think. I hear pre 2000 trucks will be exempt, if e-logs become required and cause too much inconvenience to be productive, we’ll be looking for older trucks to rebuild. Or just quit. There are other things I can do. I’m actually planning on getting out of it in time when I can get a different business going to replace it, the multitude of regulations is overwhelming sometimes. Some assure safety, some don’t seem to at all.
Jerry says
Arbitrary: the sleep hours provision is subjective. The last 15 years has observed many changes. When the hours of service provision used to be 8 hours of sleep…one of the complaints by law enforcement was in revising the statute, they had no way in knowing if the driver did get his sleep. (the answer was to lengthen the sleep period…to decrease abuse.) Electronic Logs appears to be able to work thru the 8 hour sleep concerns by law enforcement.
EZmule says
If that was true, Jerry. Then that Wal-Mart driver would not have drove into Tracy Morgan.
Jason says
Again we have a bunch if drivers thinking the trucking industry shouldn’t have rules like other jobs do in this country. Where do you people think we should be able to drive as long as we want? Why? Just remember this, if a driver is running over his/her hrs on paper log & get in an accident with family or good friends of yours & hurt or kills them, it’s ok because you drivers think we should be able to do what we want when it comes to the logbook. I want to know where drivers think it’s illegal to change to eld’s? There’s nothing illegal about it, if you have a DOT number on the side your your truck your subject to DOT regulations. The green book says we have to keep record of our hrs of service, it DOESNT say weather to use paper or electronic. The only reason you don’t want eld’s is so you can keep backing your paper log. Just sayin!
DetroitDiesel says
Good job ooida i will renew my membership proudly.
Dan Jeffers says
The changes in the Logging rules, over the last 15 or so years, as well as the EOBR is for the Government to regain control over the Drivers and Trucking Companies that they lost because of deregulation. The largest driving force for the Logging rules and the EOBR is the AFL/CIO Teamsters. The Unions gave us logs, in the 30’s) to control the non-union drivers and it back fired on them. The Teamsters are pushing for the elimination of the 34 hour rule, 11 hour driving time, and all the rest of the control of the Drivers. The Union controls FMCSA as well as all the rest of the Government, (State and Federal) to include the White House and Congress. To solve this problem we, the Drivers, have to follow all the rules to the letter. We need to cross all the “T’s” and dot all the “i’s”. However, this will never happen, because drivers will try to take advantage of the situation to try to make a few more bucks and take the chance of getting caught.
Sometimes you just have to give them what they ask for, because they really don’t know what they are asking for. Until Drivers deliver what the Government is demanding, the Government will never know.
FMCSA, Congress as well as the White House does not and will not listen to the Drivers. They don’t have to because Drivers do not vote in a Block. An example of this is the Highways in California. Cars going 70+ and trucks are limited to 55 on a two lane Highway. This is the most unsafe condition anyone could dream up, yet the reason it has continued for so long is the Drivers will not give the Government what they are asking for and will exceed the 55mph speed limit and do 70 like the cars and the cars can move with no obstructions and nobody complains. Best for both worlds, until the State needs to increase the coffers and starts stopping drivers for going over 55. The Drivers need to give the Government what they they wish for. If all Trucks did 55 and no more, in the right lane, and not pass, keep a following distance of 8 seconds, which is about 600 feet, what do you think the I-5, I-10, I-40, CA 60, I-80, CA 91 or any other freeway in the state would look like at 6-8am or 4-7pm daily? All those four wheelers would be calling their representatives in Sacramento to get the slow trucks off the road because the four wheelers could not get on and if they did, could not get off the freeway. The Government will listen to the four wheelers, because they vote and you, the driver, doesn’t. Think about it, what do you think would happen if the Government got what they Wished for?
Paul Horton says
Once while under ELD, it had me cited for excessive speed, and logged violation. The violation stemmed from the log citing me in Knoxville, TN. at say 0800hrs. Then in Murfreesboro,TN. at 0810. Then again had me in Knoxville, TN. at 0830.
I was called by safety and warned of the violations, and scheduled for mandatory meeting. I could not convince anyone that the machine was in error. I finally said, “I need to have the truck that was able to cover that distance, in that time, some 250 miles plus, in under 45min.
Paul Horton says
They always defend electronic technology as infallible, without error ability. Sad to say, I remember planes, I remember rockets, and I have had many times experienced failures of so-called high tech marvels.
Satcom, comes to mind, with its ability to pinpoint your location, to within 50 feet. NOT ALWAYS TRUE. While at shipper in TN. dispatch called to inquire as to my eta to shipper, in inform me of late arrival status. We went back and forth over this, until I handed phone to the shipper, to have him speak to dispatch. One crowning moment for “TECHNOLOGY “, as infallible. We have all had experienced some technical difficulty utilizing modern machines.
river says
I don’t think elog helps drivers at all
Jason says
Switching from paper logs to e-logs is not an invasion of privacy. DOT says we have to maintain a record of our hrs of service, it doesn’t specify paper log or e-log. I’ve been on e-log 6 yrs now & wouldn’t have it any other way. I still make good money, I’m not getting rich but I knew that coming into this business. Get used to it guys & girls, it gonna be manditory no matter what.
KLAN says
This is going to turn out just like the 34 hr reset before it was changed back. When these idiots figure out what research is then we can quit wasting time and money implementing laws that inhibit the flow of commerce and force drivers to operate at times they should be able to sleep if needed. Drivers are going to do what they have to to feed their families, which means they are going to use every minute of and eld log after its started for the day… shut down early because your tired or keep going bc you have bills to pay and family to feed and your eld is counting down. Guess they learned nothing when implementing the change to the 34hr reset.
AL DEDMON says
As for the real value of OOIDA and several opinions on the subject. If they aren’t worth spit, I suggest you talk to the thousands of drivers their legal department has recovered money for. This was income recovered for those drivers who paid into reserve escrow funds set-up by greedy companies on their leases. This was money supposedly put aside to cover equipment breakdowns, and other financial problems caused by the many situations that come up for truckers. Also included in this theft of funds was 401K retirement money set aside by the participating drivers. This amounted to hundreds of thousands of dollars and was money supposed to be unavailable and untouchable by any one but the driver and fund administrator.
Thanks to OOIDA’s legal department they recovered money for the hard working drivers that had stolen it from all the companies they filed a class action law suit against. This was done on behalf of current and previous drivers and they weren’t required to be members of OOIDA. Thousands of drivers were repaid their hard earned money plus interest, that was stolen from them by incompetent and greedy trucking company owners. Many regained enough money to retire as they had planned for prior to their fund being stolen.
I am a life time member of OOIDA for good reason. It is the only organization that stands up for truckers. It is the only association functioning on behalf of drivers that was started by truckers. It’s board of directors are all nominated by members from the list of drivers who belong to it. They have no thugs from the mob in control. Any brokers they find out not paying their members are black listed from advertising for business in “Land Line” magazine, the monthly magazine they publish. They do not have a group of hysterical people running around cussing and hollering about how wrong other members are about decisions they make. They have no hesitation in exposing an organization or company doing anything to drivers which is illegal or considered an unethical business practice.
They also maintain a lobbying presence in D.C. that watches for any legislation that will make our jobs more difficult or costly through some hair brain idea dreamed up by ignorant politicians. They have fought for years against any hasty decision to make new ideas laws in all states, including electronic logs. They played a major role in fighting to increase truck speed limits on federal highways in all states. Illinois and Ohio had to change their laws so trucks could run a decent speed without being ticketed in every county they passed thru. And if you are considering becoming an owner operator at any level there is no better or honest group you can turn to for guidance on how to do it with blowing you hard earned dough on stuff you don’t need to become an O/O.
Gary says
Seems to me like all the guys who want to use paper… Want to run 20 hours out of the day… Just for the almighty dollar… using Elogs is no big deal… you can make all the money you want and it is a lot easier
MrNA says
Stay local. The road don’t pay like it used to. As for OOIDA fighting. They are fighters and defenders of our rights in the best way they know how. We are the ones failing by not becoming “The Association”. OOIDA is a sleeping giant. There is power in numbers. Care to join?
Bob says
It’s not EVEN about which log is more or less accurate.It’s just more BS regulations.Let’s see…Speed monitoring,idle time recorded,GPS of where you’really at,arrive and depart times,forced 30 min break by 8 hours on duty,weigh stations sometimes every 30 miles!! PAIN IN THE ARE TO BE A DRIVER ANYMORE.LET’S NOT FORGET NO SMOKING WEED ON THE WEEKEND ONCE A YEAR ON YOUR BIRTHDAY EVEN.E-Log is just another way for Big Brother to Control You.Is it JUST me or do I have to take my “required break ,when I’m unloading at My First Stop?It’s to Monitor you and screw you on your break.That’s all
Jason says
Why are you drivers complaining about eld’s? It’s 2016, look at all the electronic things in this world today! Look…you drivers are on an electronic device complaining about an electronic device, how stupid! It’s here and it’s not going anywhere, not in our lifetime. Eld’s are not an invasion of privacy, they’re not babysitting us, they’re not telling us when we should go to bed or get out of bed. They just tell us when our 11 hrs driving or 14 hrs on-duty is up. You go to bed when you want. The ONLY reason you clowns don’t want eld’s is so you can rip out the paper log & back it up & keep on truckin! Why, just to do your dispatcher a favor that you will never be paid for. Why risk it? I’ve been in eld’s for 6 of the 21 yrs I’ve been on the rd & I don’t miss the paper log at all! Do eld’s cost money? Ya but so does EVERYTHING else in this country. So quit your crying about a stupid computer keeping track of hrs of service! We’re not forced to do this! Just sayin!
Eugene ezell says
I don’t mind the elog. The rule I do mind is the 14 hr rule. We used to be able to split the day up to whatever was comfortable. As long as it was no more than two periods . it allowed you to take a break when you needed it without sacrificing your driving time. Not try to cram it into one fourteen hour period from start to finish. This isn’t and never was a time clock job.
LARRY L DREYER says
We need help from the SHIPPER & RECIEVER to ELIMINATE the set time to get loaded or unloaded…. I had tooooooooo much problem with the 14 hr’s=took the keys to office…… Less miles& less$$$$…
Gary says
You people are taking this a bit to too seriously.
“I want my right to not use e-logs!!”
Really? What right? The law, which isn’t in dispute, dictates that you have to report and stay within the HOS. How you report it isn’t a right.
Don’t lie to people. You aren’t asking to keep a right. You’re asking to use paper and pencil. And to be able to cheat.
Richard walters says
It’s all about getting there,getting there,and yes paper is better,and yes u can cheat on elogs.that rule about being safer on elogs is a crock.all experienced drivers know it.the government just needs to keep their educated idiot noses out of it.UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN OOR
BASEBALLbat says
It’s a real easy system if you not a trouble maker. The problem is that it’s not on paper with your sig. So safety changes your records whenever they see fit, potentially causing a lot of drivers to get oos failures and tickets when the service times change while driving up the road. It’s a very good concept, but the control goes to the wrong people. One bad day from someone in the safety office will ruin a drivers career. I guess you can say it is a electronic blackmail device.
Joshua Carlton says
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6122276400056758151&q=United+States+v.+Jones+2012&hl=en&as_sdt=6,33
Placing a gps tracking device on any vehicle without a warrant violates the 4th Admendment according to Justice Scalia prior to his death.