Last month the DOT opened up a public comment period to get ideas on which regulations or programs in the transportation industry would be “good candidates for repeal, replacement, suspension, or modification.” A huge portion of the comments submitted were addressing the Electronic Logging Device (ELD) mandate. But according to Fleetowner, about a third of the total comments were pro-ELD, quoted a talking point from the speech of an ATA executive, and were submitted by bots.
It is not clear what group or individual is responsible for the comments, but the bot used was likely fairly rudimentary. More advanced bots are capable of “spinning” new phrases, sentences, or words to convey the same idea while hiding that they’re not real human commenters. With this bot however, 477 of the comments submitted appear to be identical, while some others were mostly the same with just a few variations. The message reads:
“The ELD rule should proceed as planned this December. The rule is not a change to hours of service, it’s simply a change in how professional drivers record hours of service. Delaying the ELD rule will endorse drivers to operate outside of their current hours of service, and that is simply not safe to the motoring public. The industry needs to embrace legal and safe operations with ELD use. This issue has been legislated, promulgated, and litigated. The time to move forward is now.”
If those last two sentences sound familiar, there’s a reason for that. Chris Spear, the president and CEO of the ATA said something very similar in a speech at a conference last month that was written up in multiple news outlets. At the time, he said: “This issue has been legislated, promulgated and litigated. And it is now time to move forward.”
It is not uncommon for trade groups to rally their members behind a cause and issue a script or bullet points for their members to use for their lobbying or reform efforts. But while a spokesperson for the ATA admitted that they had notified their members of the DOT’s comment request, he stated that “we did not provide scripted or prepared comments for their use.”
While the public comment request is for ANY DOT regulation, comments about ELDs have made up the lion’s share of the responses. If you’d like to add your own comment, the deadline has been extended to December 1st. Go add your own comment here.
Source: fleetowner, FMCSA, ttnews, DOT
i think the hours of service should change for ELD use, especially for teams. As a solo driver Id love to be able to turn an LA run out of Phoenix but cant due to California’s 55 MPH speed limit. gaining an extra hour of driving would facilitate that ability.
As regards to the ELD mandate as an owner operator my objection to the ELD isn’t trying to abuse the 11 hrs driving rule but I have only one trailer so I live load as well as unload and that in itself is the main issue with the ELD I can waste 2 hrs or at a shippers or receivers dock that ends up taking away from my driving time they say that has to be logged in as on duty not driving but in most cases once your backed up to a dock your area of responsibility is done you can lay in your bunk or watch tv,read ,or whatever until you are loaded or empty sure you can log that as sleeper but your clock is still ticking and it ends up robbing you of valuable time and some desk jockey is trying to tell that it will be quicker and more efficient when all I see is lost revenue even as a company driver it’s still lost miles
You actually do not have to log that as On Duty time. So long as you are relieved of all duties it can be logged as Off Duty. The real issue lies in losing your 14 HR time.
So why are you just now having an objection to the ELD? The ELD is not the problem! It’s the rules!! By your comment, you are admitting to not logging legally, right? If you can’t do it on ELogs, you couldn’t do it on paper legally.
People that never driving trucks need to stop making rules
Gus,you need to reread Robert Hayes comment and take in what he’s saying
My objection to e-logs is once again, the government forcing people to buy something they don’t need, don’t want or can’t afford. You can’t keep nipping at a driver’s paycheck, a dollar here a dollar there, from this agency, that agency. Eventually, there won’t be anything left.
From what I understand, the Eld mandate does not just affect big trucks. It also affects the small truck and vehicle delivery such as RVs industry.
The exception that UPS has about maneuvering and movements in a yard or dock your area, should apply to everyone.
They do now based on the change FMCSA made granting that exemption to all carriers. The ELDs will have to be modified to make that change.
The entire law should apply to everyone or no one. ALL highway users should be required to log their days. That includes four wheelers. How many of them put in an 8 hour day, drive an hour home, pack up the family and head out on a 3-4 hour drive for a “weekend away”? How safe can they be?
Or how about we require 4wheelers to install breathalizers? Since “some” people drink and drive…… Not much different to this eld mandate bs….
Yes you said it should apply to everyone but guess what big companies like ups they are exempt why do you think they are exempt.
From what I understand, the Eld mandate does not just affect big trucks. It also affects the small truck and vehicle delivery such as RVs industry.
The exception that UPS has about maneuvering and movements in a yard or dock
area, should apply to everyone.
The ATA is and has always been dishonest and deceptive in its claim to be representing truckers, they have ever been the tool of the mega carriers and insurance companies. The dishonest use of bots to falsify the comment process is despicable.
The ELD mandate is a slave collar on the necks of drivers and will be used to coerce drivers to operate unsafely.
I’ve used e-logs to get dispatchers, cops, and over-zealous parking lot defenders off my back more than they’ve been used to try to get me doing anything (which is never).
People talk about the big companies wanting to do stuff like that, but as soon as you start saying “safety”, they back off right quick.
Ive been under eld for 2 years now. Driven some kind of truck most of my life. I agree with operating the equipment unsafely. Especially when you are coming up out of time and your pretrip plan has no PARKING!. It has always been the drivers responsibility to have the discipline to pull over and rest. Has been his/her responsibility for years. When the computer starts telling me when im hungry, when to sneeze, or go to the bathroom . Ill be done driving.
Wake up america your gas, toilet paper, and food,,, well youll start seeing empty places on store shelves. I have found myself completely at aloss for words when i see a driver being reckless and going faster than he should be. Because his 14 iis up and he is looking for somewhee safe t park. Even on and off ramps are getting pinned off and some states give us tickets for parking there. There is a lot more going o. Than just filiing a daily report of hurs driven..
Some of these pencil pushers should have to get behind the wheel and have to live off a driver’s income for a couple of months and then write some new laws. They are hollering safety, most of the problems are not trucks but the stupid public. I come from a family of drivers and I always respect the trucks on the highway.
They need to come out of that office and drive a truck for one year take there salary away from them live off a truckers salary and see for them self held up at a dock for 2-3 hours to get unloaded it’s not that easy as it sounds sitting in your office
Sounds like the ata (Morman mafia) is up to their decepttive practices again…I have to admit they’re pretty good at it though. First they deceived millions into following their cult, and now their trying to destroy America with the. Elf bs..
ELDs are not the problem. Anyone who says they can’t do on ELogs what they did on paper is admitting they’ve been running outside the rules. It’s the rules that need to change and after more trucks are on ELogs, it will be up to the industry and shippers/receivers and FMCSA to figure it all out. This is going to take a couple of years, maybe longer, to sort out. And what of the Truck Stop lobby saying there’s plenty of parking? ELogs will prove that to be false. Trucks parked on ramps, shoulders, businesses and anywhere else they’re not supposed to be is going to be the norm. You can’t get out of a Truckstop at 2:30 or 3am now for all the trucks parked wherever they can just about making it impossible to move about. I suspect local fire departments will be checking these lots more and more. fMCSA has opened up a can of worms in a way only those of us that have been out here awhile can understand. Clearly this is the biggest change to happen to trucking since I first started with Burlington Motor Carriers in Jan 1995.
Gus,number one is you say if you elogs is not the problem and you can’t do elogs for what they did on paper logs that they’re running illegally ,well I myself and along with other drivers on here that are opposed to elogs would have to disagree with your statement because with elogs you have to count every minute of the day, I’m not gonna give my time to the dot every freakin minute of everyday because when you can’t get to the shipper and receiver on time it’s called a service failure then it’s gonna cost you and the company that you drive for $$ and if you start having too many service failures guess what these companies will not let you haul they’re freight anymore ,Plenty of parking YEAH RIGHT I’m guessing you you haven’t try to find parking In a truck stop around 6pm because all you solar powered drivers have already took all the parking places up because that BALL AND CHAIN you have on your dashboard tells you to ,oh and for your information it’s illegal to park on exit ramps in most states only reason you see some parking there is because most cops know you’re tired and most businesses won’t let you park on there property either and far as trying to get fmcsa to regulate these companies GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
Let’s not forget the RVs that also now park at truck stops. In some places the truck congestion is unbearable for parking. In other places you might have the whole lot.
Yes, Gus! One rule should apply to all since all trucking is the same. You should be penalized for spending a lot of time at a shipper/receiver or a backup in traffic and having to break the HOS and go in violation to find somewhere to park. You should have to stop your truck an hour from home because you ran out of drive time right? I mean, didn’t a group of former truck drivers turned researchers and scientists determine that you start wrecking at the 11 hour and one minute mark? Why do companies on ELD’s tend to have bad safety records still? I mean those guys are running legal and safe right?
Finally a intelligent comment, Shogun.
Reading some posts about the ELD (Gus) leads me to believe they have never done paper logs nor OTR nor even do an ELD. Thinking it is about cheating, not on the top of the list of issues. Put a sock in it, You are the problem.
I personally don’t have a problem with the hours of service, but the problem is going to be available parking…which is already scarce and getting in n out of shippers/receivers without “waisting time”! Has the ATA or the FMCSA or DOT gone to theses customers n made them aware of the mandate n how critical its going to be to for us with time management? I don’t think so
I have used both paper and eld over the years. I am not in favor of the new rule without them making changes to the 14 hour rule. sitting at a dock for several hours eating up your drive time needs to change.Also the problem with parking in some areas of the country if you are out of hours and can’t find a parking place, with eld you end up doing stupid things to find a place to stop, at least with paper gives you a little room to find a safe place to park. Will also say had my new truck governed at 62 for fuel sayings but recently changed it to 75 wonder why I had to do that?
I have only one truck carrier company. I am driving truck almost 15 years . Sometimes For loading and unloading take time more than 4hr even more.brokers want delivery on time.if the delivery get late next time no more load.driver get more pressure for driving eld mandates and make a more mistakes .other issue truck parking and more.i no thing small carriers keep running on road.
IF U REALLY WORRIED ABOUT SAFETY STOP THESE COMPANIES FROM TRAINING THESE DRIVER FOR A MONTH AND RELEASING THEM ON THE ROAD….STOP MAKING RULES IF U DONT DRIVE TRUCKS.
All thay are trying. To do is put the small man out of business i think. Thay are going to do it this time i would. Like to know. How much Donald trump. Was paid off
How about Truckers Report post a direct link to the FMCSA Comment submission page ?
People that say they don’t want the eLogs are those that don’t drive legally. Most of them wouldnt disagree with it as much if the hours of service laws were different. They are ridiculous and m the government needs to stop and just let the truck drivers be
Let’s blow some minds and be honest. The benefit to paper is breaking the rules.
Because some bad weather or a traffic jam can run you out of hours, so you fudge one or two here or there to get home. Now that’s the devils work.
It’s like speeding. Everyone does it, but the guy going 80 in a 45 is the actual problem. Solution? Electronically control everyones speed.
See? Because a few bad apples really abused things, everyone suffers. Now we all get regulated by precision machines in an imprecise world.
Anyone else already notice the increase in ramp parking and 30 minute breaks in the fuel island? Good. It’s going to get worse. Perhaps we should just start running till we shut down on shoulders too. Make a real mess of things, then shrug and say “hey, you made the law, I followed it.”
Rite on, could not have said it better myself. I have been paper logs for 11 years and now on electronic logs anbd funny how now when I’m headed home I can’t make it all the way. I’m normally stuck taking a 10 he break anywhere from 75 to 20 miles from the house and on paper logs I made it home every time. I’ll admit it I would fudge my log a half hour so I coul d be home with my kids vs sitting down the road sleeping in my truck. But on that note that’s the only time I would fudge my logs who would not. I don’t Care who you are if you have kids you would do the same thing for your kids. I know t hey have personal covaince but our comp any rulle is if you have a trailer hooked to your truck empty or full you can’t use it. You have to be bobtailing to use it.
So this Christmas when I’m sleeping in my truck 50 miles away while my kids open there gifts I can thank the people who come up with these rules for me missing Christmas with my kids. And I know the ones np w who will say just go home a day sooner yes so I get a nice small check because if the wheels are not turning I’m not making money. They need to add another selection one the eld you can pick. Not on duty driving no load personal time.
And you should be able to use that as an option when you are in a pickle. Now for when at a shipper or receiver the second you click on t that button your hours of service should stop so you don’t lose driving time.
If your like me once I pull into that dock my head hits the pillow.
Our company has the option of “Off Duty Driving” already programmed into our ELD system. As long as I my trailer is unladen (Empty, including no refused product or pallets) and I am not under a new “Load Assignment” which picks up in the direction I want to head, I can use that to get to a safe place to park or to get home. This is already allowed within the regulations and can be programmed into the ELD system.
I keep seeing these time comments. The log is not the problem. It’s the desk jockeys who calculate the unrealistic delivery times that force drivers to operate illegally. My dispatch used to calculate as if I fell asleep the second the key was out of the ignition for ten hours and started moving the second I “woke” ten hours later. It’s the greedy damn carriers who don’t wanna pay drivers for their time unless your wheels are rolling. You can do anything on ELD’s you could with paper. Believe me. Why would you WANT TO?? You only benefit the arsehole carriers, not yourself. You create unrealistic deadline standards by constantly meeting their unrealistic deadlines
I had a dispatcher once who would send me a load message about 4-5 hours into my ten hour break. I got sick of it and started telling him since he interrupted my break, I’d have start it over. It took about 3 “missed appointments” before he got the message. Surprisingly, Safety actually backed me up.
I will be .5h short to cross border to Canada and being legal again and get home. On other trips I will need to waist no time to get home and a will hear that clock ticking at all time. Hmm this will be safer than now? Crap. This job use to give me some kind of freedom feeling now its over Iam just a slave as anybody else.
I understand Robert Hay’s comments about the time spent at shipper and receiver and how that counts against the 14 hr rule which ends up encroaching into the 11 hr rule. The industry is pushing for this ELD mandate, I say let the chips fall where they may. Make all Trucking companies comply with ELD and employment for the trucking industry will skyrocket. This will also add to more congestion on the Highways as drivers and trucks are added. This monster of trucking is not all that easy to fix by rules or mandates. Added congestion will only make highways less safe as well, thus having more accidents.
The paper logs allow certain companies to cheat on hrs. In other words the driver is going to cheat on his log period. One thing not mentioned is how this will sharply impact the cost of goods and services across the board. What you use to get done with 1 driver it may take 3 on ELD mandate. Cost is going to eat up many companies, which will force rates to go up. In many respects before the flow of trucking is fixed by ELD. Many things will be effected by the drastic change and it will be like a dog chasing his tail. The production business that has no trucks will feel a sharp impact on shipping cost which in turn will raise cost on consumer goods. You cannot have it both ways folks.
I think everybody’s problems/concerns with ELD’s could be solved by simply eliminating the 14-hour rule. This rule doesn’t make sense for truck drivers anyways because we have the ability to stop and rest multiple times throughout the day. There is no need to limit us to a 14 hour time window. If this rule was eliminated, you could take that 3 or 4 hour nap you need when you start to get drowsy. You wouldn’t be so stressed out waiting at loading/unloading docks watching that clock tick away. You wouldn’t need to go 15 MPH over the speed limit or drive recklessly to “make up time.” It would also be so much easier to stay on schedule with your pickup/delivery time because then you could drive your full 11 hours per day no matter what you run into.
Also forgot to mention….the ATA should be penalized & fined, at the very least, for their obvious attempt to sway officials into thinking their computer generated comments were the true opinions of hundreds of real truck drivers. Also the 477 comments should be removed immediately by the FMCSA and have ATA or anyone representing ATA permanently banned from publicly commenting on any proposed regulation. This is a clear sign they will do whatever it takes to get their way.
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I stopped driving 4 years ago. I love driving, but the industry and the most of the drivers in it are falling apart. It is really sad. 4+ million strong, and they can’t get anything completed for themselves. Nobody stands up for himself anymore.
It’s just a change in how professional drivers record their hours? It’s also a change in how much of a driver’s pay he or she gets to keep in their pockets. It amazes me how hard the ATA works at spending other people’s money.
The ELD and a few more BS regulations have nothing to do with safety. It’s just big company’s putting smaller company’s out of business and big brother controlling everything you think, do, and say.
Huh. So is this an amateur attempt by the pro-ELD side, or a slightly more intelligent attempt by the anti-ELD side? In this day and age, I can see either happening.
Still looking forward to this. There will be a hell of a lot of collateral damage, but the majority of drivers have clearly failed to make their companies and customers pay heed to the HoS. Maybe this will be the wake-up call for drivers to finally take ownership of their time.
It’s another way for the government to put tabs on everything truckers do. Eld is not goin to help anything except for there pockets. It will cause more problems for truckers. The government won’t have any one to blame but there self. If truckers stick together and stopped trucking to protest this would never have happened. If we stop trucking the economy stops and you know the government can’t have that even for a day or two but the point would have been made.
throwing all trucking into one basket of rules is in itself ludicrous and just short of mind blowing. A strict set of time rules causes all kinds of issues that everyone that has to adhere to them already knows.
there needs to be more leeway , at least two hours a day, for drivers to make it to “safe havens” to park for their breaks, make it home every chance they get without revenue enhancing for the “State” to occur.
now more expense is added to truckers and their companies with these bloated pay to park tactics that travel centers and truck stops are using. Some, like T/A are ever increasing this tactic, knowing they can take advantage of ELD rules this way.
seems drivers keep having pressure applied to them in the name of whatever is popular at the time but we are all supposed to be good mannered little robots and put up with it all.
Is it time to send a strong message?
Eld must die, becose more incident upcoming, drivers must speeding, must parking in any areas, but shipper and resivers is not responsebility for loosed time
I have noticed in last couple of weeks, the level of driver harassment by dispatchers is increasing rapidly in my company. My company is realizing nothing is working in making deliveries or pickups due to elog time constraints. It’s going to be a disaster in this country very soon.
So elect truuck,s coming out you will be out of a job comp driver,s and oners orperaters when something go,s wrong with. This truck how many people is it going to kill who going to jail for man slauter
The following example is from a load I took on 11/21/17. Everything is 100% true, I can show anyone a copy of my e-log page for that day. This is why ELD’s, operating with current DOT rules, will run the trucking industry in the dirt. I left my home terminal in Charleston WV around 03:30 and had to take a short, dedicated run down to Bowling Green KY (regular driver was off) and then back to my terminal so I could get my trailer hooked back up and go down to Atlanta GA for delivery on 11/22 @ 14:00. Charleston to Bowling Green is a 5 hour drive one way…so I could drive down, unload, & drive back no problem. Well of course the customer scheduled 2 trucks at the same time so I sat there for 4 hours total which used all my “free” time and cut an hour off my remaining drive time. So I drove 5 hours down, slept in my bunk all 4 hours I was waiting at customer, and then only had 4 hours left on my 14 so I ran wide open all the way back but ended up running out of time in Cattletsburg KY, one freakin hour from my terminal! Since I took a 4 hour nap at customer, I was wide awake when I parked to take my break and couldn’t fall asleep until there was only 3 hours left on my 10 hour break. Anyways, I take back off after my pre-trip and one hour later I am back in Charleston. Then I realize I don’t have enough driving hours left to make it all the way to Atlanta after I had to use that one hour to get back to my trailer. So guess what? Yep, I lose the load and the money that went with it… all because of ONE single extra hour spent getting unloaded. Not to mention the headache and hard feelings it caused my dispatcher and the customer since it was still going to be a little late even with another driver. If I had paper logs, I would’ve made it all the way back from the first load and took my 2nd load the next day just as planned and everything would’ve been fine & dandy. I know some will say “Oh God you just admitted you would cheat and falsify your log” but there is a big difference between fudging an hour or so to stay on schedule or to get to a safe place and just flat out running illegal and driving 20 hours a day. Just because you run out of your 14 hours doesn’t mean you instantly turn into a dangerous killing machine. You’re too tired when your body says you are. Anyways, sorry for the long post but wanted to share a real life experience and my 2 cents.
Red, you couldn’t have said it better. The ATA and Chris Spears just need to disappear. The ATA has been bad for years. The ATA has to be the most deceptive group out there. All they do is lie and why, because Chris Spears leads them into daily lies.
What I have to say about this is. If you stay in a dock all day and you start driving. you get tired and you know that you can not stop and take a nap because of the ELD. So you can’t stop and you push on tired. If you run threw ATL and it takes four hours to get threw, and what can you do. So you have to stop hrs before you have too. So this is not looking to productive. If you think there was a shortage of truck drivers just hold on.
Because it work for large fleets does not mean that it is going to work for all. This is only going to give the large fleets more power and it is going to push the little man out.
I see that it takes me more days away from the house and make less hours on the pay check. If there was some way, like if I am with in so many miles from the house. I can have had five stops and be fifty miles from the house but my 14hr clock runs out but not my 11hr clock, it is because my stops too longer that normal or Charlotte too 3 hrs to get threw. It makes me mad to have to say some where other than my house because of that dang ELD.
The ELD is a great intended idea but idea and reality is a different story. So here is my opinion as a Truck Driver for ten years. The best solution at moment is to make ELD mandatory for only drivers 35yrs and Bellow and all drivers over 35 yes should be automatically ELD exempt. This will encourage older drivers to stay longer and encourage younger drivers to reach the golden age of trucking. Even if you are over 35 yes old you still need a minimum of 5yrs of ok driving record. So being 35 yes does not give you automatic freedom comes with minimum five years of reasonable driving record meaning if drivers meet this minimum requirements can apply for ELD exempt and if you get into too much accident your ELD exempt could be revoked by a judge. If you are over 35 yrs with minimum of five years of ok driving record and you can’t manage your time you should be working at McDonald’s lol
Also ELD exempt fee for safe drivers over 35 yrs with minimum five years of ok driving record could be $300 for ten years or until your license So DMV make money too this could be done online . This is in addition to my comment above 😃