With just a little over a year until truckers around the country will be required to use Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs) in their vehicles, the Owner Operator Independent Drivers Association (OODIA) is still fighting hard against the federal mandate. Unfortunately for OOIDA however, a federal court just ruled against them and their claim that the ELD mandate is unconstitutional. But OOIDA says the fight isn’t over yet.
Some drivers and many large carriers have already started using ELDs, and many claim that they make drivers lives easier and help to enforce hours of service rules. The problem, according to those against the ELD ruling, is that they should not be mandatory for drivers or carriers who don’t want to use them.
When OOIDA filed for a review of the rule, they highlighted four major issues that they had:
- Despite claims that ELDs will be more resistant to driver tampering, current ELDs can’t automatically record changes in driver status, creating just as much potential for abuse as paper logs.
- Anti-harassment rules that were put in place to protect drivers are insufficient. Carriers and dispatchers would still be able to push drivers to keep going until their hours are up, even if the driver feels unfit to drive.
- The cost of ELD implementation would be prohibitively expensive for small carriers without providing a sufficient benefit.
And Finally:
- Requiring an ELD in every vehicle results in an unlawful search and seizure, violating the Fourth Amendment.
There were other arguments against the rule, but these four were of primary concern. The three-judge panel in the appellate court rejected every single argument, going so far as to use one of OOIDA’s own claims against them, saying that the rule is “not arbitrary or capricious.”
“We are disappointed and strongly disagree with the court’s ruling,” said OOIDA President and CEO Jim Johnston. “Because this issue is of vital importance to our members and all small business truckers, we are reviewing our next steps to continue our challenge against this regulation.”
Other industry groups including the ATA and the TCA who support the ELD mandate voiced their approval of the decision. According to Fleetowner, the ATA even participated in the court case as a “friend of the court” to show their support of the rule.
It is not yet clear how OOIDA will proceed, but they have until December of 2017 until the transition from paper logs to ELDs will be required by law.
Source: gobytrucknews, gobytrucknews, truckinginfo, fleetowner, dcvelocity
Which “Federal Court”(judge)? My guess, a dimmercrap.
You are correct. Big Brother is intruding in all aspects of our lives, and works hard to amass more and more power!
Boo-hoo
Boo-hoo OOIDA crybabys
Wouldn’t expect much less out of a swift driver.
My driver log was created to protect me from the ATA. it is a safety device, not a control device,and it belongs to ME. Not the ATA or the FMCSA. legal is determined in restaurants and bars. Safe is determined by the driver behind the wheel at the time a decision needs to be made.
I whole-heartedly agree. We already have to account to the gooberment for every minute of our life, even when we aren’t working. Safety has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a line on a piece of paper, so why make us pay zillions of dollars to accomplish nothing?
Well put. Thank you!
It keeps trucking companies and brokers from abusing drivers.
That statement not true!!!! Harrashing phone calls when your in stop and go traffic,continues, employer hack into device and change status and time.this apparatus is no different than the paper log.this is just as illegal as the pigs searching your truck for drugs they help plant in that vehicle,
It’s so Hypocritical how for example…. marijuana/weed….was and still is illegal in some states…Only made legal in other states Once they found out how to get paid from it….now it’s legal……..So people harping on “Legal”… it’s just a stroke of the pen …don’t be such a sheep…… E-LOGS should be used only if you the driver or company owner I should say , request them.
Drivers will not stay out on the road with a damn computer and incompetent dispatcher, or trucking company owner managing them like a machine. It ain’t gonna happen.
Well other than the computer, it’s been going on for close to one hundred years.
Why don’t WE pull a nationwide PARK ????… Elogs are government control. All of us became truck drivers for the freedom. Freedom of the open road, We are a dieing breed, the real drivers, We take up for all truck drivers, even the company drivers, Elogs are not for safety, they were made for the money!! Force drivers to Race Time, with all trucks on Elogs theirs going to be more crashes, deaths, due to the pressure of watching a clock count down.. and next question is? Where are all the trucks gonna park? Elogs don’t give you extra time for parking, once your out your out, stuck in places with no food, bathrooms,showers etc: plan your day all you want but shit happens, lots of shippers have no parking, so, theirs a violation when the clock runs out getting loaded or unloaded, you can’t stay there!! ELOGS are unfair and Unconstitutional…not everyone can park at 4-5 pm everyday, after than the truck stops are Full, Rest areas, on&off Ramps too. Look how the parking is now!!! Can you see it with All trucks on Elogs.. They’ll be drivers getting Killed over a parking spot. Elogs are like being in Jail, told when to get up, when to eat,when to Shit,when to sleep, so, are we really going to let them take all of our freedom away??? Think about it!!! We can beat this…if we stick together..Stop all freight movement.. PARK..All of us…Truck Drivers of America…We The People….
If only but you got to many new drivers that don’t know the industry well enough yet to see the purpose and you got company’s like SWIFT and CREngland that hire 1000s of extra drivers so when one driver gets out 5 more can replace him/her. It’s not like the industry was back with the strike of 73 and 79 which those were just over fuel. America’s lost its balls and the industry even more so. I’m a second generation driver and remember the glory days well. It would take a miracle to create another successful strike that would cripple the nation enough to make a change.
I’m behind you, 100%.
Yes I agree. I remember when they had the tickers in the trucks and the fight it took to take them out. BUT here we are again putting elog in thucks. The tickers was the same concept
I’m for it! stop the trucks!when they can’t buy the food and things they want then they might start understanding.
As a Owner Operator I’m in. But you will never get the Company steering wheel holders to park. The Company will tell them ” you park your fired ” even thou it a bluff, they can’t fire all their drivers.
I agree 100% with that if Every Driver just stops. it might make a difference. For a company to replace 700-1000 driver employees (AT ONCE) would bankrupt every company.
Amen!
Great point indeed!
I’m with you my friend ,,,,, PARK EM
I think PARKING is a great idea….If only ALL drivers would STOP….just STOP….I have quit driving after 21 years….I felt like I was handcuffed to the wheel…These BIG companies run the show, not the drivers…How long would these companies survive without the diligence of drivers
I’m behind you.
I’m an XTL Owner Operator, Canadian
7 years driving at USA, crossing border every other day or two,
WITHOUT any violations and any accidents with paper logs.
Drove about 1.4 million KM
Yes you are 100 percent right
E-logs will push the driver to his/her limits, and in turn, the driver will have to push the truck to its limits in order to make it to the appointments, and all you’re going to have is exhausted drivers, unsafe roads, and with the great job the dock workers do, these conditions are going to be far worst.
Obviously, this aimed at owner operators, because big companies can switch trucks on the route, or have a team on the load, and make their appointments regardless. So yes, it’s all about lobbying (Bribing ) to kill the small business, and the hard working trucker that all he/she want is to put food on the table.
So much for the American dream. Who would’ve have thought this great country will end up like this. Such a shame.
As a single truck owner/operator using e-logs, I can say this comment is right on the money. In 38 years of trucking, I’ve never driven so hard or so fast. I’ve never been forced to skip meals or miss taking a short break just to get out of the truck and stretch my legs until e-logs. The only plus can also be a minus-I get 10 hous a day (or night) off….whether I need it or not!
Wow you got it in few words what I was trying to tell in 1000 words
I hate those eld
It will make the road more dangerous place
Cudos to my fellow driver
Right on target, Ralph
Funny, the cost they don’t tell anyone about is the service cost. You buy the unit and then buy the service to use it. It’s not push a button and print out a sheet for the DOT to look over. Just a money game, in the name of safety.
I dont like the constraints of the elogs… I prefer my loose-leaf log book. If I make a penmanship mistake, I can simply tear out the log page that would be in violation and fill out a new one. Loose-leaf is always better, neater and more efficient than an elog… The only experience that I have with elogs was with CR England… prepass was cool, but the one time an officer wanted a physical copy of my logs, I had to wait for a copy to be faxed over. Was stuck at that truck check for about an hour before I was released. It seemed like a waste of time. And for a driver…. Time is something we dont have an aboundance of. However, too many company owners and dispatchers take advantage of drivers that opperate paper logs. They want you to run 14 to 20 hours a day… And if you get caught in violation thats your professioal license… You shouldve known better. I had been up in the air on the issue, but still preferring my loose-leaf logs. Until earlier this year… I heard that the federal government is about to implement a requirement for all cmvs to have speed limiting devices, reducing the maximum speed for all cmvs. At first I was angry but then I thought about it… If your elogs wont let you legally violate your hos, and maditory speed caps on all trucks…. The driver wins. No more can a company force me to violate my hos… Or run 20 hours in a 24 period. My load will arrive at its destination when projected. You will see more drivers rested and alert while opperating. Fleet owners are against these regs because they know they cant force you to get there early. If/when this all goes through, they will have to wait for you to deliver in the legally projected time frames. Anyone that dosent own a fleet, company, or truck that is against this is misinformed and most likely just reflecting the emotions that someone else has projected upon them.
I see where you’re coming from. This may upset some drivers BUT it will also upset companies that won’t on-time deliveries.
Sounds like youve been around the block a time or two yourself. Just keep in mind, if it is gonna work, both regs have to be in place… just one or the other will make it harder on the driver.
Maybe ooidas could look into the fight it took to get the tickers out if the trucks back in the early 70’s. I am sure it would give insight. ELOG is the same concept as the tickers
These political parties are crooks ,e-logs should be in police cars and regular 4 wheelers so they can see how it feels lol I hope there will be a shortage of new drivers so nobody will be away from their families on the road and they realize they need us more than we need them
Sadly there isn’t a shortage of lazy, complacent idiots in this country. They will accept anything and everything pushed on them without question. All these changes and not one to the drivers advantage, unless you are lazy and don’t care about the paycheck. OOIDA. Speaks for ME and ALL drivers. ATA speaks for everyone but the driver
In my 21yrs driving I use to be able to take a nap till rush hour traffic was over ,with these stupid laws/cry baby truckers I’m forced to drive in more traffic etc.the real old school truckers need to ban together and not haul freight..fight for our rights to say a damm computer can’t tell me when I’m sleep..let the government try these rules of when to sleep.just my opinion old school.
I own my own truck. It is mine. If I opt to use it to go on vacation or anything else other than commercial use you still must use your ELD. Moreover, I still have to put up with all the DOT garbage. Now is that fair?
Even when you are driving on paper logs. This is a commercial vehicle. Even if you’re using it on vacation you must use logs. There is no way around that even if you are on vacation and you own your own truck.
You can cover the numbers and roll with it, but not with elogs. They won’t alllow for that.
I totally agree with every word you said, but I can have a little more patience with the e-log ONLY IF they got rid of the ticking clock and go back to the old on duty system where as if it took you 36 hours to work a total of 14 hours, then you’re good and so beit. This racing against the clock will be a total disaster and when that happens, then the government will come up with more restrictions to fix their first gaff!! #Americasothirdworldish! Just saying!
I pull a refer trailer. Most of my loads are live loads and unloads. Load times average 4.2 hours. With e-logs, that load time counts against my clock. There have been load times even longer than that. If E-logs are mandatory then detention pay and increased mileage pay should be also. Time not driving goes against the 14 hour clock as well as the 11 hour drive time. Unless you work for a big company and are mostly drop-n-hook loads…it’s going to be tough to make a decent living in the age of mandatory e-logs!
I actually have no problem with this. I think that the association should be fighting other things instead of this. Such as fighting for better pay as a union could be doing instead. Or even fighting against autonomous trucks. Instead they are fighting against electronic logging devices which does make life easier. It also cuts down on the false logging that truck drivers continue to do. As an employee of a major carrier I have never had an issue with telling my company no. If I refuse to take a load I refuse to take a load. If I need more time I get more time. After all safety is a number one priority and some people just don’t know how to say no when they need to. Just my two cents.
this is one step closer to then taking ur job with a truck that drives itself. e logs r a freaking job I run them everyday n like others said it’s balls to the walls every single day.I ran loose leaf for 6 years ran my ass off made good money n got just as much sleep. I was not as tired as I am now n I did twice the miles a week. the only reason I quit doing it was cuz of this elog shit I’d rather b home n on elogs then stuck out. it’s ur fault if u dnt get paid enough not elogs or ooida etc. u gotta make what u think u deserve not what people want to pay u
I think it’s completely bogus and for the simple fact that there are idiots like Scott darling and others that have no idea how to drive a truck let alone what it takes to make it safe to operate one. I believe it’s very unconstitutional for some jack ass government official to force me to live my life by a computer. Not to mention where in the hell are all the trucks going to park when this bs law takes affect? There are hardly enough places to park as it is and for them to think they know better then me what it takes to be safe is completely ludicrous. I say shut down ATA and the fmcsa there nothing but a bunch of over funded neo Nazis that get there pockets padded by big mega fleets.and I don’t understand we are the only job in the country that is not allowed overtime WTF. But it’s safe for someone to work there job for 16 hours then get in there vehicle and drive over an hour home. Bs is all it isand I do not support any of the jack Asses that proposed this
Just like the sleep apnea crap test we gotta take now. They (FMCSA) has said, “There is not any real data to show or prove a drive has or not shown crashed with fatigue due to sleep apnea. So we still have to do the test. They just did not come right out and say it but FMCSA is saying “Fat people have sleep apnea,” because it would have be discrimination, but it says obese! So now we have to take this test, then go back to the medical doctor to get you card back. And you only get 6 months to do it. This industry is really getting bad. ATA is nothing more than baby whiners and jump for wagon to wagon. It is just a mazing how shit is costing more and more and pay is not rising and neither are the rates.
#1 is beyond absurd. It’s humorous on multiple levels. First, OOIDA’s mere presence alone in the courtroom refutes their claim that ELD’s are no more effective than paper at enforcing HOS. (If that were true, then why would you bother fighting the mandate?) Second, perhaps aware of this corner they’ve backed themselves into, OOIDA tries to eke its way out by piling on a full truckload of absurdity, claiming essentially that it’s technically impossible to build an ELD that works. Are you out of your mind OOIDA?
#2 is absurd on its face, but taken in combination with #1 it becomes wickedly absurd. Because if accurate ELD’s are technically impossible, then that’s all an unfit driver need remind a company about that tries to use ELD data to pressure him or her to drive: “Hey! You know as well as I do that that data is bogus!”
But even without #1, if the HOS regs don’t suffice to predict when a driver is unfit to drive, then an unfit driver’s only recourse is to stand up for his or her self in the face of company pressure to drive. There is no connection between the need to take this stance and whether or not a driver is using an ELD or paper—the stance is what it is, regardless of ELD vs. paper.
By the way, if the HOS regs don’t predict when a driver is unfit to drive, then aren’t the HOS regs faulty? If they are, then isn’t reforming them what OOIDA should have been devoting its resources to all along instead of waiting for the inevitable ELD mandate to come along so they could then make fools of themselves?
#3 is a joke. First of all the demand spike caused by the mandate would likely bring the cost of an ELD unit down dramatically. But if I’m not mistaken all you need is an appropriately outfitted smartphone, a multipurpose device well worth the cost without even adding any ELD capability.
#4 is completely insane. They might just as well have tried to employ the First Amendment and claim that prohibiting paper logs infringes on a driver’s right to free speech. Seriously—I’m not joking. The two strike me as equally valid arguments.
Please drivers don’t support this nutcase organization. The time is ripe to build a new, smarter, stronger one.
Regarding #3 – If mandating something EVER drove the price down, my health insurance premium would be about $5/week. You can’t name a single thing mandated by any government agency that saw the price go anywhere but UP like an F-16 on afterburner.
If the gigantic carriers had’nt dragged losers from under bridges or cardboard boxes…put them at the wheel of one of their, so called trucks after 3 weeks with a trainer, with 3 weeks experience…things wouldn’t stink like they do right now.
thanks cut rate mileage drivers.
You earned a ? course, you don’t have clue?
You do have is a 6 digit number.
Electronic logs will cause drivers to drive faster. It’s as simple as that. No name calling needed. What other industry puts an egg timer next to someone’s head when they get to work and then they are told to “go!” Truckers generally don’t vote and not enough of you support OOIDA. So, truckers don’t have as much of a say as we should.
The real problem is the log rules themselves are highly dangerous. Add to it E-logs & accident rates will sky-rocket. It very likely caused the Tracy Morgan crash. I was never so tired, so fatigued, so dangerous as the time I had E-logs.
If an elog will put you out of business, you shouldn’t be out here. I have been on them for years and make plenty of money. If a driver let’s a computer force him to drive dangerous and kills someone, he never should have been driving a truck in the first place. They are coming. Get over it.
“Carriers and dispatchers would still be able to push drivers to keep going until their hours are up …” Will carriers and dispatchers find a place for the driver to SAFELY park once their hours are up? In 30+ years I haven’t had a dispatcher recommend or even mention a possible place to park. How many sleeping-at-the-wheel drivers will it take before this argument is believed?
As part owner of a small car shipping company, I don’t like the tight controls the elogs would create. I can see it working fine for fairly fixed schedule runs, but our pickup and delivery schedule is totally random and constantly changing, it would be very counter productive for both convenience and safety. Actually interfering with safety. Even the current hour regulations interfered with safety when I was driving, the 14 hour limit especially, at times I felt I had to keep going just to cover the miles before I ran out of time for the day, when I was very out of it and should have taken a nap and drove later, refreshed and alert. At other times the 14 came to an end while I was still very alert and safe and could have kept going safely, especially at times when we spent time during the day just waiting on the load and napping. Although the total driving time of 11 seemed to be all I should do. I’ve heard that pre 2000 trucks will be exempt, if it goes through I’m sure we’ll be rebuilding some old truck just to escape the requirement. Or just quit operation and start another business, since I’m on the verge of creating two other businesses anyway, fresh produce production and small power plant development. Either of which I would enjoy much better than trying to operate with the endless regulations permits and legal rigamarole in trucking.
We’ll one of the biggest work industry in the U.S. i feel we can get changes we need to make industry safer an more effective by parking trucks an get these mandated rules abolished or changed.okay i agree with technology but when it starts effecting my pockets an taking money away from me technology is doing to much I’m sure I’m not the only one noticing shrinking paychecks how hard it is to make ends meet nowadays right think nation wide strike would change an effect way things are run with industry now .drivealess trucks next right I’ve been trucking since April of 1996 an these changes as of late is killing me federal mandated by still every state has a dufferent set of rules if was about safety why are points added to liscense bunch of crap ask me we need to come together an say no more .what’s next for trucking industry keep sitting back complaining time to take action not tomorrow yesterday but today enough is enough we’re already over regulated
I used to work for company with eld omnitracks or something ..
It made me more tired and stressed coz sometimes sleeping day time drive all night next day go back to night sleep because of Nothing goes as planned in shipper or receivers.
When i start my day I pray hope nothing goes wrong at shipper. I have to push trough traffic with anger and stress driving fast coz I need to gain my lost hours at the shippers.
All day in rush and stressed out almost like no time to eat or pee a lot of unnecessary pressure.
Our small company just put in the e log. So I decided to run it legal. And log it all, and I actually went 55mph through California. I did what the law wants us to do. At the end if the trip I have never been so exhausted in all my years driving.
Very true
Having read this comment section in its entirety, and a trucker since 1999, I must say there are certainly some looney tunes out there on both sides of the issue. Then, I suppose if there were’nt an issue, there would’nt be two sides. This I can with certainty, I started driving with Werner in 1999 and their goofy electronic loggin via the Qual-Comm. Total ridiculous non-sense! Once I was 17 miles from home, on that end leg, and was creepy beeped to stop. How silly is that? One must consider that the speed limit in Oregon is also 55 MPH. Stop? Not a chance! I moved on to a company (all of them in those days) with paper logs. I came to the conclusion, after a number of years O-T-R driving for any company that the only true way to make decent money was as an O/Op. That I did until 2011. I made real good money when I finally leased to a great company (my last six years out there). Small O/Op only outfit, never pushed, never chastised, and always a pleasure to do business with and to do my job. Which is my point. The people you work for and with make this career either a drudgery or a great way to make a living. The new rules and regs are something that will always be a bone of contention. A professional deals with it and moves on, doing the best he or she can. I’ll be back but with a pre-2000 truck and paper logs. Be safe out there.
How bout the phone call you get on your ten down because they see your parked next to someone they can’t reach.way I c it cars cause most of accidents.your in a ditch there long gone.so your at falt .hope state and gov.r required to have ELDs.
I say all drivers O/O, write OSHA declaring ELDs as a tool that create an unsafe work environment. I say drivers get a team of attornies to file a massive lawsuit. Class action style. I also say force companies to pay $60/hr for every driving hour. They want a time clock, ok , pay for the time. Drivers want $60 per hour for every driving hour. All companies….
OOIDA, I know you are fighting the ELD mandate but I support it & hope it takes affect on Dec 18, 2017. I have 26 years experience & drive for a small company on paper logs. I got held up in Chicago last week and was told to get the load done no matter what, I advised them I was running legal and couldn’t get it there legal, they said to get it there early & make the logs look legal after load was completed. Needless to say I ran legal but am catching flack for it.
Strike is are only hope