In preparation for the court battle which has its opening statements set for September 13th, OOIDA has fired its opening volley in the most recent battle against mandatory Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs).
Published on August 12th, the 45-page filing from the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association skewers the proposed ELD rule, pointing out its biggest flaws and even claiming that it violates driver’s constitutional rights. It follows the FMCSA’s own filing to the court which defended itself against OOIDA’s previous criticisms.
So before the opening arguments have even begun, both OOIDA and the FMCSA have already had numerous back-and-forth arguments in the form of lengthy legal filings where it seems the disdain each holds for the other side is clear. And this isn’t even the first time OOIDA and the FMCSA have fought over mandatory ELDs. Or the second. This is a battle which has been fought repeatedly with the FMCSA always finding itself headed back to the drawing board to come up with a rule that OOIDA won’t be able to shut down.
This battle is so similar to the previous that the participants are even the same. OOIDA has filed the case as the main plaintiff, but also named are two OOIDA members, Mark Elrod and Richard Pingel. Both Elrod and Pingel were named as plaintiffs in the case brought successfully by OOIDA in 2011.
In their brief OOIDA claims that:
- There is no proof that ELDs decrease crash risk
- ELDs are no more accurate than pen-and-paper logs
- Dispatchers could use data gained from ELDs to harass drivers
- Prohibitively expensive systems could drive small carriers and owner-operators out of business
- Mandatory ELDs violate drivers’ fourth amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures
Source: gobytrucknews, truckinginfo, fleetowner, overdrive, truckersreport, truckersreport
How about making drivers race a digital minute? Elog drivers apparently cant even slow down for work zones. They create fatigue,stress and aggressive behavior. All dangerous in factors in trucking.
it isn’t the elog that forces people to drive tired and push as hard as they can. It is the fourteen hour clock that was introduced a while back. Instead of being able to break up your day into whats comfortable for each driver, like driving 4 or 5 hours then eating lunch, and maybe taking a two or three hour nap, then finishing out the other 5 or 6 hours to end the day. They pushed us all into having to compress all our driving time into 1, fourteen hour period. No two drivers are alike. why are we allowing the regulators to tell us how to run our job?
Bull hockey, I’ve been on eld for 6 years and it’s the driver who makes the final choice.
ELD’s in my opinion force a driver to drive tired. At least if I’m tired now, I can take a little nap and be much more refreshed and alert. I’ve felt a danger to myself and those around me when I’ve been put into a position of trying to beat the clock.
Also, when all O/O’s and company drivers all happen to be looking for somewhere at the same time to park is gonna be chaos. The STATES do not provide nowhere near enough parking.
Does your paper log force you do drive tired ? Yes it does when you falsify it which can be easily done !
I don’t believe that elogs create aggressive stressful drivers , but I believe the hours of service rules do. Racing the 14 hour clock every day instead of being able to take an hour or two nap when you’re tired is dangerous
I started using E-Logs in 2009. I’ve seen several different types of E-Log systems from the old “green screen” QualComm E-Log where you have to send a message in to receive your driving hours remaining. Then again I’ve also used the newer systems that are touch screen and voice operated.
There are folks claiming this and that about E-Logs, and I personally find that E-logs saves you time, stress and makes it so easy to keep up with how much drive time you have left until your 30 minute break or until the end of your day. That gives me the advantage of being able to stop at the right time to find myself a place to park at night.
If you think that E-Logs makes a driver more aggressive, you need to be looking at that driver, not the E-Logs. A driver that rushes, stresses over a few minutes or even tries to make shortcuts to make up time, needs to find a new career. I drove trucks for 11 years. I was late twice, due to weather. I planned ahead, I made sure my route was going to be a good one (Utilizing State Police etc). Even then, the systems running E-Logs can possibly even have tools on the device that can help you determine these things without the need of looking up the state police number in your atlas.
I support E-Logs 100% and believe that the driver has 100% of the control of whether the truck moves safely or not.
–Jason Smith
I wonder how many miles you drive a week or what your paycheck looks like for that matter.
Your 1% Jason the other 99% will run your ass over if you get in their way. Got to beat that clock……
Mister Smith,could you please tell us how much you take home weekly with ELD installed(working as company driver)?I bet it is two times less than driver with paper logs.That is the situation,what we have in our company.
You tell the truth,OOIDA just wants illegal stuff for its members
You must not own your equipment.
Yes! And every driver must understand that, if somebody like to eat some bullshit, we should give him a teaspoon (in order to make it more delicious)… and this is the opinion of a driver who drove 8 years in Europe and 5 years in North America with e-logs…
I have noticed that I am being passed alot more at 68 MPH than I was in the past. Most of these are trucks with ELD’s, when you ask the driver whats the hurry, they’ll tell you that they are having to drive faster to make up for what time they are loosing with the ELD tracking them.
And you sir are a liar !!
You sir have never invested tens of thousands of dollars and speak foolishly of things you know nothing about.
I’ve used e-log but only in a local driver mode. I think they’re cool. I wasn’t always a local driver, though. I can definately realize situations occurring where drivers will be shutting their day down within close proximity to their destinations as a result of e-log hrs of service regs.
It’s one thing to run multiple log books or willingly commit violations to the regs but another to end up in a situation, for whatever reason, that delays a driver to the extent that they can’t get ‘creative’ a little bit to ensure time sensitive delivery arrives to its destination on time, a half an hr or 45 mins.lets say.
These situations arise everyday, all day long Be prepared for $ billions to be lost as a result of this short sighted endeavour.
I have been pulling hazmat for over 40 years. I have had zero accidents and zero traffic violations . How is the e log going to make me safer? It’s only going to cost me money to have it monitored.
I guess they just push me out!
Elog is going to stop you from lying on the paper log !
You have responded to several posts that are against elogs. Do you think that your method of falsifying logs is ok, while other people’s method is unacceptable? I should put ut this way; do you think that it is not possible to falsify elogs?
Do you put off duty or sleeper berth while you are at a shipper or receiver? If you sit in the sleeper, it is not, but if you are on the dock, in the seat or in the waiting room because they don’t allow drivers to sit in the truck, but you log it off duty, that is falsification.
If you are in your yard, and you have to move trailers around before leaving, so you don’t sign in until you are ready to leave, that is falsification.
Another trick; You have an am appointment at Costco, so you park at the truckstop a block away. You drive under 25, so it doesn’t switch from sleeper to driving, do your drop and hook, and log in to do your pretrip. Falsification, courtesy of yours truly, elogs!
Do you speed? No, not 15 over, just 1 mph over is breaking the law. Do you believe there should be transponders that would make sure that you never go over the speed limit? If not, should I accuse you of not wanting such a device because you just want to speed?
If you like them, good for you, but don’t accuse the rest of us, especially o/os who don’t want to spend money on a device that can be manipulated, and provides a further method for the government to be able to track law abiding citizens.
Why don’t you find something better to do while doing your 10 hour break after running out of hours 5 miles from your receiver william?
hope someone points out that big companys like Jb hunt , Snider . Ruan FedEx , all use Elogs and has as many accidents as non elog companies and I used Elog at one job and all it did was make me RUN as fast as I can to get the loads off in the 14 hr period so I drove a lot faster then I normally would to get it delivered in the elog time even in bad weather conditions
The elog made you do nothing, if you did anything, it was by your on accord !
Boy u know it all William . Most trucks I see on the road in accidents are big company truck. I’m sure you will come back calling me a liar. If you do you better quit driving your desk.
The FMCSA itself should be eliminated.
Agreed
You should find another profession !
e-logs are a joke. more than once 30 mins or less from home and have to stop.
I agree!
E-Logs aren’t the problem folks are making them out to be, not really anyway. The 14 hour clock that is looming over you doesn’t care if you have e-logs or a comic book. That is what I feel is causing the bigger issue of drivers being dumb asses, gotta beat the clock.
My employer uses elogs – Peoplenet. It forces drivers and employers to comply with laws regardless of how ridiculous they may be. Elogs put everyone on the same playing field. I like the lack of ‘pencil sharpening’ that paper logs seduce drivers and employees into abusing to achieve compensation. The 30 minute break is beyond stupidity, but if we all have to comply at least it’s not another anchor for those of us that are either forced to comply as opposed to ‘fudging’.
I personally don’t care if its e log or paper, it is the fourteen hour rule that is causing a lot of accidents.
I am on e-logs and yes i drive alot more faster on e-logs. I am more angry with drivers because the lack of respect for other drivers trying to get down the road to their destination ( i am talking about 4 wheelers ), the 4 wheelers are not on a time clock like truck drivers and they just get in the way.
Come on government, get out there and drive for 6 months at a time with no home time and stay in that truck and see what the hell real drivers go through, exspecially one’s who opted out of having kids and a husband. I don’t want to be penalized for not doing the family thing. I am a workaholic and thats my way. Your born, you work, save for retirement and then die .
E-logs and speed limiters are not about safety, as the FMCSA states, it’s all about driving the O/O out of business.
No it ain’t, the elog is about you complying with HOS regulations
I get it William .Your’re a proponent of elogs. I’m not anti elog .I’m against the HOS rules as they are written. The 14 hour rule is costing and will cost the trucking industry untold millions of dollars. We could all live safely and efficiently without having to race the 14 hr clock to make deliveries or just to find a place to park. End result is more trucks required to deliver the same amount of freight = added cost. Think about it????
William u better read the facts yes its to drive small companies and o/o out to grow the unsafe money payers that see u as a number not a person even the ata want those companies to grow and get rid of the american dream
William are you a owner operator?
Troll.
Go away.
ELOGS are about tracking drivers. I.e., on duty, off duty, driving time, speed, etc. Most systems these pin point where a driver is to feet and most systems have little loop holes in them. (No, I won’t explain that). Drivers cause accidents, not elogs or logs. Drivers fail to manage their time efficiently. Supply chain logistics, which includes freight transport, is now down to JIT freight – just in time. They don’t want it early, they definitely font want it late. They want it just in time. ELOGS aide in that by tracking driver movement. Besides the “make trucks safer bs”, elogs track driver time and efficiencies, as well as inefficiencies. Yes, truck trackers do the same thing but not as effectively. And I agree with what someone else posted earlier, the larger companies are the ones whose drivers are the worst. I don’t know how many times I’ve been passed by a speeding Wener truck in a city speed zone, school zone or construction zone. Elogs didn’t make him speed. His inability to manage his time effectively did- whether he over slept, spent to much time bsing at the trucker round table in the restaurant, stayed up too long playing games on his phone, whatever. The days of little to no driver accountability in the supply chain are over.
Same old strawmen arguments being trotted out by OOIDA. To address the 5 points listed above:
1. Yes, there ARE studies that show exactly that. They’ve been done by numerous agencies, both government and educational.
2. Yes, they ARE more accurate then paper log – that’s kind of the whole point. No illegibility issues, GPS/Cellular locations to go with status changes, minute-perfect accounting of time spent, no “accidentally” forgetting to go back on driving from off-duty. They’re a hell of a lot more accurate, which is exactly why a lot of drivers and organizations don’t like them.
3. Conversely, drivers can use their ELD to tell an aggressive dispatcher where to go. And how is this any worse then the current situation, where a dispatcher can pressure a driver with paper logs to keep driving and fudge the hours after the fact?
4. You can set up a legally valid ELD system for couple hundred dollars these days. If that’s going to break your business, the ELD isn’t the problem. And they can be used to simplify some of your accounting paperwork, and brought forth as evidence if you need to discuss rates/demurage with customers.
5. The courts can hash out what level of privacy a driver is entitled to while working in a professional capacity. But an ELD provides no information to a roadside inspector that they aren’t already legally permitted to require from a driver.
I remember when OOIDA was a voice for the small business owner, and their battle cry was to say no to cheap freight. These days, the only people it’s defending are the ones who can’t make ends meet legally, and I’m getting underbid by their law-breaking patrons.
They should change the HOS parameters. I seemed to get more done with the old system. Bring back the split sleeper berth. This mandatory 30 min break it BS.
For the record, I’m against the eld as well. I don’t need a babysitter or the government looking over my shoulder and telling me what to do.
Make the driver’s more responsible…..make the penalties for driver-at-falt crashes more severe.
I’ll jump in here.
I’ve been a company driver and O/O since ’88 with multiple trucks and drivers of my own over the years. I no longer have my own truck nor drivers. I’ve been using ELD’s since 2012.
Bottom line, I love ’em.
I drove OTR with it and along with my GPS, I could plan my run out to the minute and never go over hours. I am a runner so I don’t stop until I have to for a break or at a customer. I maintained enough miles to make a living and was home on the same day every week. I won’t claim to be the top mileage driver nor will I tell how many miles I ran during the week. No one would believe me.
I’ve driven for countless dispatchers who would resort to name calling and try to force me out when it wasn’t safe or I wasn’t ready. I’m not hauling bricks for baby hospitals so the load can wait. The ELD has put those calls to a screeching halt. For me, I’m happy with it.
My last statement says it all. For ME, it works well and I won’t drive for anyone without one. I don’t believe every company has bad dispatchers nor every driver wants or needs to have their time monitored. With that in mind, I disagree with the FMCSA and think it should be recommended but not forced.
The ELD, like any other regulatory system (even paper logs), can be manipulated. If you are creative enough, you can always find a way. The industry will continue to change- many times not for the better. We just need to adapt and overcome.
Let me jump in if I could.
ELDs will be a great addition to the trucking industry. Only if the Feds reconsider the 14 hour rule and eliminate it. Feds should consider giving us 11 hrs drive time with either a mandatory completed split(2) 5hr sleeper berth within a 21 hour period or a Full( straight ) 8 hour sleeper berth with a 1 hour break after 6hours of drive time. Reason for this is there is no more drive time deception .It will also give us an opportunity to make up the time we lose at shippers ,receivers, construction and/ or accident traffic that we face not only on a daily but nitely basis too.Bottomline ..14 hour rule , 10 hour break and ELDs do not mix!
Elds arnt the real problem problem is washington creating laws to control the trucking industry when they have no clue about the trucking life. 14 hr rule puts us all in danger forces you to drive when your tired. 30 min break i stop several times during the day 10 to 15 min recharges the body and mind 30 minutes cause you to wind down too much or at least me. Im more tired after 30 min. ELD’s just more control over drivers.
Elogs are not about safety. In fact, if you look at accidents involving big trucks since many of the major carriers began using them, the accident rates are up. Parking at most truck stops has also become more difficult since implementation. This is about money, control over an over regulated industry an stifling competition. If a carrier wishes to install them in their equipment, they should be free to do so. Those who don’t want them should be allowed to continue using paper. In reality, we should get rid of the hos altogether.
Elogs are fine, get rid of the 14 hour rule.