The FMCSA just refuses to put the idea of federally mandated EOBRs behind them. In 2011, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals struck down a ruling that would have allowed the FMCSA to require Electronic On-Board Recorders to be installed in the trucks of companies that had unsatisfactory safety ratings. And given the quality of our current CSA safety rating system, this seems like an even worse idea today.
The idea was struck down thanks to a lawsuit brought by OOIDA which claimed that EOBRs would be used to harass drivers into running loads when they were unable or unwilling to do so. Nevertheless, the FMCSA is searching for a way to put harassment-proof EOBRs in commercial vehicles nationwide.
The question being asked now is whether or not that’s even possible. The FMCSA has published a notice and request for comments on the issue. The full document can be found here. It states that it is looking to conduct a survey to see how the goal of harassment-proof EOBRs can be achieved.
Before publishing the notice, the FMCSA reached out to a few industry-leading organizations for input. The ATA predictably voiced their support saying, “ATA supports laws and regulations mandating the use of… EOBRs for recording drivers’ compliance with Federal hours-of-service regulations. ATA also supports the FMCSA plan to survey drivers and carriers on how {they} can be used to monitor productivity and their potential use as a tool to harass drivers.”
OOIDA was cautious but apparently unwilling to sit on the sidelines saying that it “support[s] the goals of the proposed survey” and requested that the survey be filled with questions that would actually do some good and provide some insight.
Only Trans Products & Trans Services opposed the planned survey saying “We feel this survey will be inadequate and will not fairly represent the entire industry… Furthermore we do not feel that the data retrieved and recorded will significantly reduce crashes.”
If the survey conducted, the FMCSA says that it will “randomly survey drivers at truck stops” and get an “adequate sample” of drivers to respond.
If the survey does end up seeing the light of day, you’ll be able to find the questions here on TheTruckersReport.com. In the meantime, let us know in the comments what questions you think should be on the survey and whether or not you think EOBRs can ever be made harassment-proof.”
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A couple concerns I have. One, to continue to regulate hours of services with no cushioning will only push a driver into a hurry mode. Does that sound safe having millions of drivers in a hurry mode with an 80,000 pound vehicle? 2, if a driver gets tired in the middle of the day and would like to take a couple hour nap but feels he can’t because the hours of service laws wouldn’t allow him to and still be able to maximize his distance for the day… Does that sound safe? Same thing applies to adverse weather conditions in rush hour traffic, or night time line haul drivers. If they are tired, shouldn’t they be able to take a little nap without having to worry about a fourteen hour clock ticking against them? The FMCSA is actually making this industry more unsafe!!! When will it end. Why doesn’t industries like, ems, fire, police or surgeons get regulated on hours of services? Is it safe to have a firefighter working a 24 hour shift with off and on rest after pushing his body to its maximum physical exertions, or a surgeon on call 24/7 performing emergency bypass surgery off and on around the clock working on my heart??? Does that sound safe? What about the millions of people in this country that work far more than 70 hours a week and then get in their cars and drive home after working 12 plus hours a day every day of the week and some have more than one job?? Is that safe??? The causes of driver fatigue isn’t the amount of hours a man is limited to drive/work, it’s how he’s forced to do it without giving him any flexibility to operate in TRUE SAFE MANNER. FMCSA…. You want safe drivers? Then go after phone companies to put a system on cell phones that disable a phones ability to operate on any level after the phone reaches a speed over 20 MPH. We lived all our lives without phones in cars and trucks for years before say 15 years ago. A distracted driver is the most dangerous driver. A tired driver should be able to stop
And sleep when he’s tired and then drive. Not be forced to cram every mile in a 13.5 hour workday. Keep in mind… We no longer have a 14 hour day since there is now a mandatory 30 minute break within that 14 hours actually making it a 13.5 hour day. And who’s stupid idea is it to make a man stop and twiddle his thumbs for 30 minutes a day? That doesn’t help a driver. Who can relax for 30 minutes in the middle of a workday knowing they still have another half a days worth a work to do??? Just let him get it done. And the reset rule, why not allow a driver to reset once a week from a Sunday to a Saturday instead of making him take one every 7 days after he’s come off it? Rediculous people… You have made this industry more unsafe by putting the driver into a hurry around the clock mode by enforcing these laws that give no flexibility to the professional driver. You have also shortened a mans ability to make money for his family with these new rules by restricting his hours a day from 14 to 13.5 in an ALREADY HURTING ECONOMY. When will we get to start limiting your ability to operate in manner that actually makes it more unsafe and takes money from your pockets? EOBR’S will only make a driver hurry even more knowing that the sandglass is ticking!!! Regulate the elements the distract drivers rather than take his ability to make TRUE safe choices and put him in a hurry mode. Use your heads people. It’s mostly common since. I’m a two million mile professional veteran driver/owner operator that eats, breaths, and sleeps safety, and what your doing to this industry is actually working against you, not with or for you. I’m all about safe operations but lets not make it harder to keep guys in an already struggling for driver industry. Lets work together and tackle the true elements of what things out here really make it unsafe.
Mr. Lawrence, I wish every truck driver would have the same mind set like you. This industry would be in a lot better shape. Thankyou for your very well put post, you are so right on every point.
Amen Christiaan…
You hit the nail on the head. A 30 minute mandatory stop is ludicrous. We will all just sit around killing the 30 min for nothing.
I agree, I have worked under paper log and electronic log, you are always under more stress with the electronic log because the clock is ticking. God help you if your stuck in a traffic jam or at a shipping company who doesn’t care when they get you loaded and then won’t let you take a 10 hour break on their property or on the highway when your clock runs out.
Well said!!!!
WOW Driver you hit the nail on the head, I cannot agree more! The regulations are unrealistic to time constraints for drivers. Drivers need more flexibility within the law of 24 hours to move freight. I would add further to allow drivers to take 2 or up to 8 hours of rest within 24 hours to move the freight safely. The key is safely and regulation’s do not dictate that. The problem of safety between companies and drivers are the time constraints on loads by brokers, dispatchers planners and customer service. RESCHEDULE THE LOAD! Stop forcing drivers to fly over vehicles. We can and will get freight to customers on time providing regulations change to a more relaxed schedule. Keep in mind not all shippers or receivers work with any driver in retrospect to DOT Regulations. Why not allow a driver to take a 4 hour nap if sleepy and finish his driving when he wakes up? Why constrain the day to only 14 hours? This regulation is misused by dispatchers to know end. Point being you cannot take 2 10 hour breaks back to back and feel rested to drive 11 hours. This is a foolish notion by DOT and Companies abroad. Drivers safety begins with the driver and each driver being different. How can we pass regulation of driving requirements and sleep requirements when the conditions the driver is faced with do not correspond? We must live in a perfect world? Lol
Yes sir, I agree, specifically on the part about forcing us to work so hard/fast and not run over any 4 wheeler, i am not Bigfoot with a flippin Hypercharger, kissing some dsipatchers a** just so he/she looks good. Screw that. I also agree strongly on the more flexibility within the 14 hr. day. Simple solution, go back to the split 8hr sleeper berth rule that was the standard before 2002. Much safer!
it’s not the on board recorders that’s doing harm. It’s these rules like taking 30 minutes during your 10-11 hr tour of duty. This does not stop crashes. In fact could increase them. Some people like myself do just fine as long as the truck keeps moving, it’s the stopping and starting that makes me tired. They are trying to get trucks off the road and to do this means households had better stock up on supplies or they will not have them when needed because it will take weeks not days to get the product to your town if it doesn’t come in by truck. Most crashes are caused by tired drivers of autos or autos texting on cell phones not paying attention. Why do they not implement the laws they have for autos, such as, headlights on when raining, slower traffic stay right, texting, cell phones, this would help alot. My question “why do you feel adding hours (depending on where I’m going) to my run makes me safer?
Harassment free is like untaxed fuel great idea, never gonna happen
When you run local, an EOBR is no big whoop. You don’t have to draw lines in a book anymore. It’s a good thing.
When you run OTR, an EOBR means you can’t make any money unless your dispatchers are good at keeping you moving within your 14, which means you can’t make any money OTR, because dispatchers are never good at keeping you moving within your 14.
I’m never going back to OTR. I’ll go work at Taco Bell first.
You mean you’r dispatcher wasn’t. I keep moving. I don’t stop unless I can’t get loaded for the weekend.
I keep moving too! When I ran regional, I exhausted my hours everyday. Whether being stuck in Atlanta traffic or a pick up. Most weeks, I crack 3150-3200 and that’s because of good planning.
You can make more money at Taco Bell and have a much better quality of life.
Actually, you can’t. At any Taco Bell, you will only be working a maximum of 30 hours a week at minimum wage and you will receive no benefits (and stand on your feet all day). But nice try! Care to share some more of your impressive wisdom?
30@$8.00 is better than 6days 24hrs a day in otr. You still don’t get benefits with most companies. His wisdom might be rather factual.
Besides, 2 taco bell jobs at 30 hrs a week will get you more quality time with the family and still make close to being otr driver.
To top it off at taco bell you aren’t subject to $2750 fines with the new rules for hos.
Maybe not at Tcao Bell alone, but if you add 30 hours at McDonald’s and 30 hours at Quick Lube, not only will you get 90 hours, you’ll gross more than the average company driver.
well, since we are naming names…. my last stint at Covenant Transport net me about $500 a week…. BUT… when you take into account that they would get me thru the main terminal about every other week, and invariabley SOMETHING would be so wrong with the truck that i had to sit for a week or better EVERY TIME…. it doesn’t add up!!!! you can’t live on the road, AND PAY BILLS with $250 a week…. i don’t know what kind of psycho world you are living in…. but it doesn’t happen!! add to that the fact that your gone all the time… and, it’s just not worth it!!
i now make $7.50 as a security guard, home every night AND i make the same OR MORE every month as i did driving!
so, here’s the math:
week 1 driving = $500. week 1 security work = $284.
week 2 driving = $0 (stuck at terminal). week 2 security = $284.
[ about even so far ]
week 3 driving = $150 ( got you out later in the week). week 3 security = $284.
AND I AM STILL DOING FINANCIALLY BETTER !!!!!!!!! i have a grand total of about 2 years driving experience. i am tired of sitting long enough to reset in between loads, i am tired of being told there is “no freight” and being left sitting over 3 or 4 day weekends. i am tired of spending everything i earn just on food!!! I CANNOT PAY ANY BILLS with what i make !!!!!!!!!! a person can only go so long being treated like this!!
when a GOOD WEEK is 2000 miles, and a NORMAL WEEK is 1600…. HOW IS A DRIVER SUPPOSED TO JUSTIFY BEING GONE???? i can’t…. CAN YOU?
The solution to this HOS thing is for drivers to refuse to drive for any company unless they guarantee a minimum paycheck whether they actually drive or not, with additional bonuses paid based on productivity. This will motivate a company to use their drivers in the most efficient manner instead of placing unsafe demands on the drivers.
the ONLY way EBOR’s can be “harassment free” is to only mimic a logbook with 15 minute increments as the standard logbook is, and nothing else.
Not be a tattletale like the QUALCOMM and not be a system that if you’re two minutes over your hours of service because you’re trying to find a place to land for the night you’re not going to get an automatic violation in the mail, especially when you have to make a choice personal safety and following the law.
Unfortunately, we all know what the FMCSA’s goal is and that is to monitor how many times you blow your nose every day. [I better be quiet about that one or maybe they’ll come up with some device like the CPAP BS requirement and deemed that excessive nose running depletes the body of fluids thereby causing fatigue.]
I feel that they [government] think just like when they raise taxes at the numbers will be continuous. In this case, I don’t think they’re really taking into consideration that driving is actually a choice and it’s becoming a choice that new and experienced people are choosing not to make.
I feel the same way as other drivers that I talk with that “it just isn’t fun anymore” and we’re tired of the BS.
How long until we have no choice? Trucking is the back bone of the economy and like fire and police services are deemed an essential service, how long do we have? I had a monitor in my truck once and chose to leave the job because I just couldn’t get my head around a machine keeping constant watch over me. I tried, and I have to say if it becomes a reality, I will choose to stop. That’s 24 years of accident free driving going out the door. Not that long for some of you out there, but longer than the average. Quitting isn’t something I want to do, but I can’t fight the gov’t and I don’t see a Hoffa in our future. Meaning we will never speak as one voice. Until the person at the front of the class hears us saying the same thing, through one voice, we will never be heard. We will just be looked at as juvenile delinquents.
Those who work at the FMCSA live in a different world where they have no idea what truck drivers have to put up with since they never had to walk the same walk. They are nothing more than bureaucratic cowards who have complete and total disdain for the people who put their lives on the line to keep products supplied to everyone.
The FMCSA just refuses to put the idea of federally mandated EOBRs behind them.
Wrong. Congress forced them to in MAP-21. They have no choice at this point. They have to write a mandate.
The FMCSA has gotten way out of control. To require on board EOBRs will mean several things: freight delays, lawsuits, and a mass exodus of drivers or potential drivers from the industry. And most importantly, it will not have a significant effect on fatigue related crashes. It all comes down to money, pure and simple. EOBRs will result in more revenue through citations, taxes, etc. The day that they’re required in trucks is the day I quit being a driver.
Funny, I have been using an electronic log, EOBR, ELD, or whatever the name of the day is, for over 2.5 years and I have never had the thing try and harass me. I may have wanted to take a 2 lb sledge to it, but it has never harassed me. And neither has anyone else. For one, a driver can only be harassed if they allow it to happen. No one is forced to do anything for anyone at any time. I will not be “harassed” by a customer or a carrier, and surely not by some goofy idea that the EOBR can be used to harass me. I detest the idea of electronic log mandates of any form. I do advocate the ability of use them if one chooses to. But this harassment thing is just a ruse by OOIDA and others. Find a better reason to convince everyone that electronic log mandates are a bad idea. This is digging down into the cry baby category.
Your forgetting the point cliff. If eobr’s become mandatory, it’s taking another piece of our freedom away! Owner operator or company driver, enough is enough.
Your a real piece of work!
Y don’t you get out and do some real trucking? So you can see. Overdriving road conditions, not making it home, being 1/2 hr. Away.
Missing load times due to traffic, too bad you can’t leave a little sooner, on eld. Accident on freeway, you run out of work time 14hr. You stop 15 min. From destination. To wait 10hrs.lets see 9:00pm. stoped 7:15am. Moving, heavy morning traffic 7:45 arrived. Wait on two trucks ahead of you. 10:45 you up finally 12:00pm. headed out. reload stops loading @3 you arrive 2:45. They won’t load you. So you wait till morning. Eld has done what for that day?
Owner op. 2 years running eld. Yeah a few little rule changes would help these a lot. But, every driver is different. Like every state has a little different intersection. Let’s see regular merge, roundabouts, Texas spur roads. One ways, no one uses these the same. So please tell me what makes the eld. So correct for every driver out there. We’re all going threw the same but different sensations out on the road. ELDs Not for every driver. And please hear me out. 4 wheeler sees a big truck. We’re the target. Break check, passed, in a bad spot. Objects thrown @, for what? just driving??? Yes, trucking is getting to be the most dangerous job in America. And we don’t get hazard pay. We get more mandated all the time. I can see y, so many drivers are hanging the keys up. It’s sad. I’m glad that for the small percentage of drivers the eld works. But I don’t think anyone where the eld works shouldn’t help make it better. Soon it will be like the civil war. North vs. the south. Real brothers fighting brothers. Over money? Driving freedom? Maybe just because of being a follower of 13.5 hr work day. I don’t know?
Sorry. for some of my miss spelling. Lol, I didnt re-read what I put down. Just pushed post.
The FMCSA is creating a minority class (truck drivers) and persecuting it.
Historically, classes of people have been persecuted for politics, religion and the for the taking of property (land-grabs). Now it seems that “Safety” is becoming another reason to persecute a class of people.
Mr. and Mrs. FMCSA, please get this through your thick heads. We men and women in this industry are more than out here just doing our jobs. For many of us, it is how we lead our lives. Many of us spend more of our lives in these trucks, than we do at home. Therefore, we are a class of citizenry all to ourselves, completely unique and utterly different than any other class of people on the North American continent. We are paid gypsies; we are the last American Cowboys (and Cowgirls – with all respect to you ladies out there); we lead our lives from shore to shining shore.
That is our LIVES. Every time you try to introduce legislation which proposes to monitor us, you are proposing invasion of a lifestyle by government – the invasion of privacy of a class of people by a governmental organization. And all in the name of “Safety”.
In which case – “Safety” – you are wearing blinders. Studies have PROVEN that we are FAR more safe than the motoring public (over 80% of all crashes between cars and trucks caused by cars – remember that?). Yet you persist in trying to pursue this class of American people, trying at every turn to introduce more and more legislation which will invade everything they do.
You are going to keep on, FMCSA, until you have a revolt on your hands. Not a threat. But if you don’t believe us, take a look back through history. Every time, throughout all of human history, any governmental body tried to oppress a people, those people rose up in revolt.
You’re pushing non sequiturs, FMCSA. We’re not the ones out here causing the problems. It’s the rest of the motoring public. And you’re risking everything, up to and including our entire economy the way it exists today, to push something that has been proven over and over again to not be the problem. There’s a term for that. “Madness”.
Go get your heads examined, FMCSA, before this/your madness destroys a way of life, and likely our entire nation right along with it.
Excellent editorial, James. Unfortunately, the FMCSA doesn’t get it and probably never will.
Perfectly stated! Thanks for finding the words! Wish they had eyes to see.
One thing I know is when driving my own truck on the roads, driver’s are holding their qualcom’s or the other devices similar to them while driving instead of pulling over to use them……..What’s safe about that?…….I get driver’s about hitting me when passing or running me almost off the road……It’s terrible!……In construction zones, large company driver’s run 65 mph in zones that are mostly 45 mph-60 mph, pass me with concrete barriers on each side with no room for error, etc…..Have been told these new laws, once they start their day, they have to push it that hard to make money or get the loads from place to place….It’s more dangerous than it use to be out here……If these large company trucks are equipped with all these tell-tell devices……Then maybe the government needs to trace the routes these trucks take to catch these large companies in the act…..Government really needs to investigate a lot of the actions of these companies and their practices…….I know I would like the answers as to why I have to worry about my safety, and the safety of innocent people, because they all seem to have one speed, no matter what the conditions are on the road.
Um wrong Jenny you can’t read your qualcom why you drive they are locked why your truck moves and they don’t unlock that fast to read them.
How about FMVSA taking control over shippers and receivers? Make detention pay mandatory and punishment due to truck being late because of Hos illegal. If shipper overloads the truck, they should be held responsible, not driver.
Honestly, I feel tired of the confusion BS. When I went to driving school in 1999. I was the one who learned how to fill out a log book. Not the dispatcher/planner or anybody else. The EOBR’s are ruining the industry. If you can’t trust a driver with a logbook, then why trust him/her with a $300,000 load? It is utter confusion, everytime a new muniscule rule gets put in place on the EOBR as well. I am the driver, the dispatcher is not. Back when, I started most dsptchers were ex drivers and knew the industry/job well. Now, you got kids with freaking MBA’s trying to do an actually simple job. Why? Beacuse the industry has pushed to confuse and complicate the job to the point that nobody wants to do it anymore. Drivers get disrespected, never get home and get crapped on. So, nobody wants to do it. You also, confuse the office with the rules…therefore with trying to answer calls, run a eobr and everything else, dispatchers lose it. The driver is like, hey this dsptcher was starting to learn the job, then dsptcger gets fired, and the cycle repeats, new idiot with a PHD or MBA trying to learn a simple job, but the industry just confuses it with eobrs. Also, the new dsptchrs don’t like drivers because they dont have a MBA and further disrespect and piss off the drver. I hate the EOBR, I spend big money on a house and get to see ut 2-3 days a month. I used to get home a couple times a week. But, NO! FMCSA wasnts to continue to confuse and make life even more miserable for an already miserable job. Just drop all EOBEs and enforce paper logbooks again and things would go more smoothly. Also, concerning EOBRs, anothrt reason I hat them. Say your company sees you have hours and they want to push a load on you. Well, they give you the load, after they finally make up their mind, by that time your clock has run down, and you look bad because you now late and cant make the pickup. Another reason to hate EOBRs, well its actually the logging rules…say my schedule and eobr only allows me to drive directly into rush hour in Atlanta or Pittburgh or something. I would MUCH rather go in at a more peaceful hoyr and be safe, not risking running over a 4 wheeler, but NO! The EOBR box says my clock has started and I have to be UNSAFE! Drive at their discretion…not my own! C’mon people… Another thing to alleviate this would be to go back to the ols split log sleeper berth principals.
I don’t care if they harass big fleets with revolving employment rosters. Experienced owner operators not affiliated with a big fleet, and who maintain a good CVSA record don’t need these devices to stay safe. Harassment of company drivers is an issue, so these devices should be operated blind to the big fleet employer. If a driver reads his device and reports that he can or cannot drive, then the dispatcher will just have to accept his word for the truth. If that driver is found lying during a DOT audit or accident, then the driver gets into trouble and the big fleet takes a shit for hiring the wrong guy. Owner operators have a cell phone. If there’s an accident, cell GPS data may be accessed. Why put in another unnecessary device in the truck?
I second that Mr. JAMES C.
What ever happened to, if you were tired you would take a break? Now, if you don’t get what you can in 14 hrs your S.O.L.
Forcing drivers to do things is not the answer.
Here is a question for the survey:
Do you believe an EOBR will make you a safer driver?
Have you ever been harassed by an EOBR device. ( Dispatch telling you to do something you did not want to do. Or dispatch sending messages while you were sleeping. )
Do you believe the FMCSA is actually following statistics or trying to regulate the amount of money a trucker can actually make?
Here is what I can say to that… Having been a former Police Officer, taxi driver and now truck driver here are some observations.
1.) There were several times I would work more than 14 hrs as a police officer and I was carrying a firearm. I was also in charge of the safety and security of inmates after being on duty for greater than 18 hrs.
2.) When you see rules that police are supposed to be enforcing and instead they are breaking…Running red lights and stop signs, texting or talking on phone while driving, speeding, the list can continue… Where is the equality and justice?
3.) Having been a cab driver I would stay up well over 24 hrs at a time just to make sure bills were paid. Yet there was no enforcement and I was never in any accidents.
Justice and Equality please.
Perfectly stated! Thanks for finding the words! Wish they had eyes to see.meant for James c.
I worked for a large company with recorders. Quit and leased to small company.Best move ever. Less stress. Always working for me. Never sitting unless I want.
The fact is these trucking companies let the government do this to them having no back bone to stand up and say no we will do this it serves no purpose !
Well it’s no wonder that the industry (company’s and corporations) would not oppose the survey as it would provide them with valuable insight as to where these possible regulations are headed and equip them with the defense they need to posture themselves to vigorously oppose any such new regulations. EBOR’s was just what the Doctor ordered for industry! Now, they not only have a ‘snap shot’ of a driver’s log but they have an electronic playbook of driver’s movements down to every minute of every day under some imaginary umbrella they can point at and say “see how safe we are?” “we are good corporate citizens doing our part to ensure safe highways!” ALL under the disguise to pressure and “harass” driver’s to keep their trucks moving! Remember, it’s ALL about their dime…. Their productivity, their efficiency, their utilization rates and capacity ratios, their driver manager’s bonuses and their bottom line…. It’s all about their money, on the backs of American Truck Drivers!
There is only ONE (1) way that EBOR’s can be made “harassment proof”! ONLY ONE WAY! While communication is the backbone of any business operation, it is the direct telephone communication by which driver harassment is communicated. Since this verbal communication is always subjective, it will always be, he said, she said and my word against yours regarding any verbal exchange… i.e. no proof of harassment. After all, every truck equipped with EBOR’s, is also equipped with a qualcomm, correct? Moreover, ALL communication between dispatch and/or driver manager’s will need to be accomplished with qualcomm messages, an electronic written exchange of specific instructions. The mere fact that mandating only qualcomm communication, will not only act as a deterrent, but will provide written proof of driver harassment, thereby eliminating this routine procedure to suck the last dime available out of the driver’s and their trucks under this so-called umbrella of safety! Until telephone communication is eliminated between driver and company, driver harassment will continue unabated!
Here is a list of questions that I would ask driver’s:
1. Is your company a forced dispatch company?
2. Do you know of any company’s that are not forced dispatch company’s?
3. Does or has your dispatch or driver manager provide you with creative ways of recording your on and off duty time?
4. Have you ever been instructed to “edit” your time on your logs for the purpose of gaining (adding) hours to give you more hours to drive, before you approve your logs?
5. Does your company “edit” your logs for you, then send you a message to “approve” your logs? (Note: several company’s do edit driver logs to give them more driving time! Often, driver’s do not even know where these changes are made on their logs, they just receive a message to “approve” their logs, if you want the names of these company’s, let me know)
6. When you get down to 5-6 hours left on your 70 clock, have you ever been told by your dispatch or driver manager that if you can’t make this load on time then your home time will have to wait until next week, even though you are tired or don’t feel good?
7. When you get down to 5-6 hours left on your 70 clock, have you ever been told that you must take this load as far as you can get it, to be relayed to another driver with driving hours, even though you run the risk of a log violation?
8. Have you ever been told by your dispatch or driver manager that you must increase the amount of actual driving hours that you are driving per day or per week?
9. Have you ever been told that you can ONLY take 10 hours on your required 10 hour break and if you go over 10 hours you will be left sitting somewhere waiting on your next load or you can’t have your home time until you start taking only 10 hours?
10. Have you ever been told that you only get 15 min or 30 min to do your pre-trip inspection and if you spend more time than that your next load might get canceled, even though you had to put oil in your truck or air in the tires?
11. Have you ever been told to record a trailer inspection as “off-duty time”?
12. Have you ever been told that you can only record 30 min or 1 hour of “on-duty time” at a customer location while waiting to be loaded or unloaded, even though you might be there 3-4 hours?
13. Have you ever been told that if you need to stop and take a break besides your 30 min break, that you must call your driver manager or dispatch?
14. Have you ever been told that you can’t take more than 30 min on your 30 min break, even though it might take 5-10 min to get parked and/or 5-10 min to get out of the truck stop?
15. Have you ever been told that you only get 10-15 min to fuel and the rest must be logged as “off duty time”, even though you had to wait 15-20 min in line to get to the fuel pump?
16. Have you ever been told that you can’t stop and take a shower during the day, that you must shower on your 10 hour break?
17. Have you ever been told that you can’t stop for repairs on your truck or trailer, such as a flat tire or missing mud flap, until you reach the truck stop for your 10 hour break and this time must be recorded as “sleeper berth” when you put your truck in the shop?
18. Have you ever been told that you are stopping too much for bathroom breaks and/or you must stop on a exit ramp or avoid the truck stop and use a pee bottle instead?
19. Have you ever been told not to use the qualcomm for any issues regarding Hours of Service?
20. Have you ever been left sitting for hours or days after having been warned about any of these circumstances, then it happens again through no fault of your own?
GOOD LUCK!
Why would you possibly want to work for a company like this?
I recently went to school to be a truck driver in fact I ended up getting a job a month later with a company, I wanted to be a truck driver since I was 14 yrs old, back in to 1970’s when my mother and I would travel back-n-forth from Colorado to Pennsylvania I would see a lot of Truckers on the highways and also it was not uncommon for truckers to actually stop and help motorist, or even help there fellow truck driver. I have been researching the Industry for a long time, In fact I would have to agree with the post that Steve Bell made and all the other post that have been made, In order for things to change in the Industry we the truck drivers need to be heard whether you are young, old, new to the industry, owner operators , company drivers, etc….. maybe what needs to be asked of the FMCSA is why don’t you consider paying instead of cents per mile but Hourly, and also why don’t you pull all the stinking distractions out of the trucks and let us focus on our jobs, this bullshit of being logged minute by minute is stupid, how would the FMCSA like it if we put Monitors in the cubical and a QUALCOMM system at their desk and demanded that every time they stopped typing on their keyboard that they had to put their selves off duty and then when they started typing again the system put them on duty, or when they had to go to the bathroom they had to do the same thing, and what about the new 8hr rule lets see them work 4hrs and then they have to take a 30 minute break in order for them to get more time added to their clock so that they could work another 8hrs, they Government and Its Sub-Government need to wise up and think, think about where they started at the bottom before they were promoted to a higher position, you got book smart people and you have Common Sense, and street smart people, why not elect the people that have done the jobs in America into office, and also I have always had the philosophy that you should work in a trade after you go to school for it for at least 2 years before you actually become a office geek that way you would know what the hell it involves to do that job, ( for example you want to be a an Architect then go build homes and you’ll see that some times you can’t put a wall there or a steel beam in that location, do you see my point), or maybe I’m just wrong in my thinking, maybe America just needs to fall flat on their face and end up like all the other countries. I do know this that I am an American not an American’t, and this country was founded on our principles and Morale’s, and that we have or had a Constitution and a God on our side if we would just return to that and not be AFRAID to Stand up for what is Right, we are all Soldiers in fight, and we all need to fight even when we get knock down, If we don’t like who’s in Government then we need to get people in that will do the job and if they can’t do it, don’t allow them to be elected again, we all have voices or did God not give us a mouth be heard, he sure as hec didn’t put a zipper on my mouth, and I understand there is way to say things and when to say it, this is just my opinion on all this.
I will say it again…..nothing will change as long as the big companies are in a hurry to bend over and take what the government gives them. If they all say “enough” then things will change. The feds can not force anyone to drive so if the drivers all stop the bs will stop.
After driving Class 8 trucks for 25+ years, I now will only drive for a Company that PAYS BY THE HOUR, period. WITH overtime. EBOR ? Sure, put it on there. Doesn’t work for OTR and O/O and we all know it. I sleep at HOME in MY bed. I had more than enough of the disrespect and ambivalent attitude of shippers and receivers. If I am not loaded or unloaded in a timely manner, a phone call to Dispatch fixes that problem FAST. Makes a damn big difference when the Company has to pay you for sitting there. VERY effective when it’s overtime. This is the only thing that is fair to everyone, hourly pay for ALL of your work.
If this elog and new hours of service isn’t enough… I guess next there gonna want to put a camera in my cab and monitor me through my work week, like the other guys say, I’ll go find work in another field… Oh yeah FMCSA here’s a kidney and a arm for the B.S. your putting us drivers through, while we keep America moving… This is the thanks we get for keeping stores supplied and companies operating… Thanks again for your support FMCSA!!!!!
I have been in this industry seems like all of my life as my father was a trucker and I have proudly followed in his footsteps since 92. I have seen the government agencies cracking down on us starting with no bird dogs in the truck, then the new HOS rules in 2004 now the new rules this year. It is getting harder and harder to be a trucker.
I see this new intrusion as just that, big brother wanting to more control. Starting with the DMV taking over our medical cards and deeming us not in “compliance” if we refuse to show it. I really hate that word. What else will they demand next and if we are not in compliance we will need to get the government’s approval to even be a driver. What’s next, no CB (yes folks if you keep trash talking on the thing they can take it from us), mandatory EOBR for everyone, Owner/Ops and Company’s alike. I am surprised they haven’t done it yet. I’m reading complaints about the 30 minute break in 8 hrs, really people, you should not drive more than 8 hrs without a 30 minute break, just to get the blood flowing in your legs again if nothing else. Truth be told you already take one it’s just not logged. The tough one is the 2 periods between 1 and 5 that is getting us. I would like to know who the pencil pusher is that thought of that one. We can complain about the other guys that are just as tired and even more so after a 16 hr day (I live at one of the fracing sites and know how many hours they work) they will put more regulations on everyone. Next may be going thru a government check post before going down the road. Who knows what they will think of.
Main thing is we as drivers need to speak up, write your congressman, call your senators, let voices be heard that what they are doing to this industry is a farce.
Show me where in the Constitution the federal government gets it’s authority to operate the DOT and the FMCSA. What is it about the federal office-jockeys that makes them so much better, so much smarter; where did they obtain their higher level of skill than the rest of the regular drivers out there, that they should be able lord their unlawful authority over the industry? If they are so much better, why don’t they all jump in the trucks and do the job, while everyone else goes and gets trained to their level. That way, trucking would be the safest industry because we’d all be trained like the unelected bureaucrats who tell us all when we can eat, sleep, work, and wipe our backsides!
Do the same thing with the EPA, and their state level toadies, that bunch of unlawfully-existing, unelected bureaucrats who shoved low-sulfur diesel, the expensive maintenance nightmare electronic engine, and soot-reduction contraptions, among other things, down the throats of the industry. If they can’t justify their existence, constitutionally, then they need to go, along with the lying politicians who created and maintain them.
Get the state governments to stop taxing a company’s unsold product inventory, over and over again, every quarter, as though it was new income for them, and that nonsense of JIT could be eliminated, which would go a long way towards doing away with the pressure out upon drivers to drive too fast and drive too long in order to get products to their destination.
Sadly, because truckers are too independent, and spend all their time working for insulting wages, to stand together against the tyranny of federal and state governments, they will just keep shoving rules, regulations, and expensive technological contraptions down the throats of everyone in the industry. Expand this unlawful government hand to everyone in the country, and there would be a revolt like no one could inagine, but because it only seems to affect “truck drivers”, it’s no big deal.
Presently, as I see it, it’s a hopeless situation. There’s always some schlub, and now, illegal aliens recently given amnesty, coming along who will put-up with any amount of abuse for the pittance a truck driver receives theses days.
All the rules that are placed on drivers are never going to work, good idea in a perfect world, but until there is accountability with shippers/receivers who keep drivers waiting many times 4-6hours before pu or del. With no adjustment to the timing. Many things make more difficult to keep hours and tiredness in check
I can actually see a whole new business opportunity here. Black market cracked EOBRS. This would do wonders for owner ops with their own authority.
everyday you drivers complain, i swear, maybe you guys should find another career, macdonalds are always hiring..
Well, more people complains about the hos rules than they are about the monitoring of eobr.
Otr and owner operators are full of themselves. They will in a second accept any loads they get to make money, even if this means breaking the law. I have yet to find a owner op that is running legal. Why? Bevause they all have to feed their family.
Most people dont like eobr because it removes their ability to cheat the system so freight rates can stay low due to the always available truck to run a 800 mile load in 24hrs.
Dont get me started on safety. If a driver wanted to be safe it would do a pretrip every morning. But drivers are too busy dumping their pee bottle on the ground during their so called pretrip.
Eobr should drive the outlaw mentality out the door. If a driver cannot make a living running legal then go do something else and let the professional ones do their job.
Eobr has done nothing but improve my productivity.
I personally have no problem with and electronic logbook because it’s nice to have all the hours of service and available hours calculations at your fingertips if that’s all they did. I use one when I was over the road that was on my computer. It was a DOT certified application and it really helped as far as trip planning.
however, most companies now are using the QUALCOMM and the unfortunate thing about that is that it is a huge tattletale.
they log by the minute and if life happens such as accidents, construction, breakdowns, or anything else that may delay your trip before you can land in a safe haven, with new technology becoming available to law enforcement the next time you pull into a weigh station or pass a DOT sensor on the road, congratulations you now have a citation for trying to be safe.
I do not like systems that monitor my every move such as if I have to stab the brakes because a car ran out in front of me, moments later and getting a phone call from my boss asking for details of what happened and accounts against me as far as I’m driving and bonus performance.
my response to my boss in this situation was that rather be explaining to you what happened then filling out an accident report.
If the sensor is out of calibration you get called into the office and forced to go through retraining classes because the QUALCOMM reported a near rollover event. [I drive like an old lady and I know that didn’t happen, especially bobtail]
There are so many things that the QUALCOMM reports it’s almost like having Houston monitoring the space shuttle.
That wouldn’t be a problem in a lot of respects if that was available for the driver to access. in other words, if the truck is in a near rollover event, I’d rather have a warning on my dash alerting me of the possibility then an e-mail from my company.
But this is just another electronic leash in the name of “safety” and don’t even get me started on what Washington state is doing with infrared cameras, license plate tracking technology for commercial vehicles and that’s just for starters all in the name of safety.
And you are part of the problem not the solution..Ever heard of free enterprise? probably not..many owner ops are decent people..as a matter of fact many drivers of all kinds are very decent human beings who only want to be respected by their fellow man..you are an ass..what may work well for you does not work for someone else and why should a trucker of 30 plus years get out of what he or she does best just because of people like you who can’t stand up for their rights and just go along with such ridiculous rules that have nothing to do with safety..
I agree wit the fact that they r more a harassment then good id rather run paper logs I get forced to take lds I dont want it never works right n it shows where I am I unwillingly get swapped lds I dont want and I get log violations for the littlest and stupidest things im glad they denied the request to have em mandatory just my opinion
My one problem with all of the regulations, is that the FMCSA does not understand that the regulations in the trucking industry are like criminals, and our laws. Only the good, honest, law abiding individuals, and companies will abide by the laws/regulations.
No matter what regulations you make, the problem drivers/companies will be the ones that don’t care about the law, or are just to stupid to know when to stop and rest before causing an accident and killing someone.
I have been a driver since 1989. About 10 of which was OTR as a company driver, and as a owner operator. I can tell you from that experience that the job while I was away from home was 24-7, because everything revolves around your job, from doing your logbook to even “having” to go to sleep after a certain amount of hrs. Then if you couldn’t sleep very well because you were not tired for some reason, you still had to get up by a certain time an start driving again.(Because you are not allowed to drive until you need sleep, or stop and get some rest when because you didn’t sleep well the day before). That’s not allowed. Not to mention it cuts into your 14hr limit.
Putting all else aside, this is my biggest beef with the trucking industry.
I’m a local city driver now.
How many other industries out there in this country get away with making you work 14hrs a day, with only a 30 lunch break, no 15min breaks at all during the entire day, and no overtime pay after 40hrs like most other jobs give you?
My personal opinion on how to get most to abide by the regulations.
Violating the regulations, or not, is the drivers decision. Right?
Poll Question: If we (OTR drivers) Made a descent wage for the 24hr a day job we have. Or (city local drivers) were paid overtime for all hrs over 40, or choice of higher pay rate and no OT pay. Would we be less likely to violate the regulations?
the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995? and then they close rest areas so you can stop where it would be legal? so when your break comes up, you end up on a exit ramp. while hey use that money to mow all of the grass along and in between the highways. how much does that cost?
Give me paper logs or give me death. lol
REST AREA : should be a “REST AREA” not a place for a truck enforcement unit to put up temporary sign “ALL TRUCKS MUST STOP ” and made into an inspection area .
I remember at one time years ago if the log was not quite right they would escort you to a truckstop told you take you “8” then go ,still got a fine but NO BS going on a record to follow you around for 3 years, or having some outfit make money like hirerite (doesn’t deserve to have upper case for a lower class outfit) taking the word from some piss off trucking co recruiter that couldn’t keep his bonus because you didn’t stay a year… When a companies word you could take it to the bank … not some time study geek looking at you unit number on the qualcomm
IMHO The only way an EOBR will “enforce” the rules is if at the same time the Industry shifted to hourly pay. AND that being ALL HOURS paid. Note I did not say “improve” safety. A shift to hourly pay would cause the improvement and the EOBR at that point would be the time clock.
So questions the FMCSA should ask Drivers:
Will you be a safer driver with an EOBR ?
Will an EOBR force you to choose to drive when currently you would choose to rest ?
Would your Carrier tell you when to drive and how to schedule if you had an EOBR ?
Will you be more or less productive with an EOBR ?
How do you think an EOBR will improve safety ?
Can you or do you know of current EOBR users who “cheat” them.
Do you or have you ever “fudged” your log book ?
LET US ASK THE FMCSA A FEW QUESTIONS ?
Do you, all your neighbors and everybody in the USA wake up, go to work and sleep the exact same time everyday ?
Have you ever been driving home or needed to be somewhere at an irregular time and compensated with common sense and prudent care ?
Do you feel you`re smart enough to drive a truck ?
Is concern and performance ofsafety in any given situation a definitive, smart, common sense, courteous, conscientious, experience or learned, or regulated action ?
Yeah. So let us get EOBRs only if at the same time we get hourly pay and full protection with the Fair Credit Reporting Act and ALL current labor laws.
I tell you right now the way I see it.
One. We drivers as Company or Leased are not “Independents” We are employees getting ripped-off.
Two. Drivers don’t want EOBRs cause of fear of inability to control income.
I do not feel that electronic logs are going to help the industry. They slow down the trucks and drivers causing the trucking co. to hire more drivers and buy more trucks. Do you think there going to pay more after these cost are incurred. Also there is no way that you can control the shippers and receivers. So lost time will be incurred there also. You cannot control the trucking ind. like the airline ind because you cannot control all aspects of it. My biggest problem is they leave no room for weather, accidents, traffic, and needing just another hour or two to make home. Also a driver who plans his trips knows that it’s better to drive an hour or two to get threw Chicago at 10 pm rather than 6 or 8 am. Why not something simple like you can drive 650 or 700 miles in 16 hrs then have to take 8 off. You can drive, load, unload all in the 16 hrs and then rest for 8. This may be a little to easy but you get the idea. The present day H.O.S. with the 168 hrs. reset does not allow for a glitch. How about 144 hrs plus the 34 and 2- 1 am to 5 am would allow for a bad week and still let the drive stay on a regular schedule without pushing him forward. It would also save him from having to do short weeks to get back on that schedule. As you can tell I’m old school and I like to leave get my job done safely and get home asap to be with my family. I think e logs will keep a driver on the road longer each week and Co. will enforce the restarts right to the minute sending the driver out away from home sooner. also to get home sooner the driver may find himself driving hrs that he may not normally would drive.
Mr lawrence a big right on to you! there is nothing safe about anything these yayhoos who never drove a truck in there lives are putting into law for the truckers! Ridiculous is more like it..the driver is the best judge of what he is capable of doing..bottom line end of story..when a computer is running your every move you are no longer in control of your vehicle..and if a company can go in and change any part of that computers settings to their advantage that is totally unacceptable..drivers are not robots they are human..we need to stand up for our rights as human beings and stop all this nonsense that is going on and will continue to..a good old fashion shut down would be great..but alas no camaraderie anymore..being aware of what is going on is still better than burying your head in the sand driver..so lets get it together and show em where the real power lies..it’s gone way to far now!!
Driver need to get there brains hooked on the ideal of a rolling strike. Bye rolling strike i mean company and o/o stand togther as one by slowing down to 55 just enough to disrupt the supply chain.No shut down or anything that could cuase a company driver to get fired just a slow down to mess things up.
If you got it a truck brought it
Drivers are already making low to no money and these regulations are already scaring many drivers out of the industry. Pass an EOBR law and watch the already complaining production houses shutter their doors because no one will show up to load their freight.
I have been fielding these constant questions from shippers lately as to where all the trucks are? They have product to move and no one to move it. We already have hours of service regulations and we sign a log book with our legal signature. If we violate the log book, it is a huge fine and now CSA points that follow us around for 3 years. I don’t need an EOBR for various reasons:
1. I have to buy an electronic device that is filled with things like capacitors and processors, that are prone to fail, which I will have to legally maintain and carry with me wherever I go. A piece of paper and a pencil works just fine and does the same exact thing.
2. The EOBR or ELD as some are trying to call them now, has been used and will be used to infringe on my 4th Amendment Rights to Privacy by tracking my location every second of the day. I own the equipment and I don’t want anyone to know where I am loading or unloading, stopping for fuel, etc. without my consent. My customers were hard to acquire and I don’t want to lose them because now my route is displayed for anyone with access to see.
3. The EOBR/ELD is just opening the door to 24 hour camera surveillance which is capable of being put in place now by both private parties and the government such as aerial drones, traffic cameras, and low orbit HD cameras.
4. The EOBR/ELD does nothing that I can’t do myself with a paper and pencil and it presents an unreasonable cost to the truck owner.
5. The EOBR/ELD is causing drivers to drive at the maximum speed they can to make deliveries and it is causing them to lose money because of its restrictive, non flexible, format.
6. The EOBR/ELD is an acceptable form of data collection when used on aircraft for determining the cause of an accident. And that is where it should stay. Using this technology to enforce regulations on just some of the vehicles on the highways and byways (semi trucks only) is not addressing the issue of the causes of accidents involving semi trucks. The cause of most semi truck accidents is non trained operators of small four wheeled vehicles.
I could go on, but I have work to do. If you have a CDL, you need to join OOIDA.
I wouldn’t mind being regulated and watched like an airline pilot so much if I was paid like one. By the way I own my own plane..er uh truck.
I agree with the hurry mode comment before.
I personally like having elogs. Its fairly user friendly and I don’t have to really think about it. The Qualcomm does all the log thinking for me…
That being said, I’m not a fan of the fact that there’s no grace. Elogs should have a 5 minute grace period built in. 5 minutes could be a game change. It could save a driver big time when they get to the spot they were going to shut down in and find all 3 truck stops full and overflowing and they can’t park on the side of an exit ramp because its against company policy…
10:59:59–Everything’s peachy and there’s peace on Earth.
11:00:01–You are kindred spirit with rapists and murderers and the scum of the world.
I’m sorry FMCSA, but there’s something wrong with that.
This industry is not PERFECT. You cannot always plan for everything. Sometimes, things just go wrong, and a little grace is required– and would be appreciated…
On a E log for 18 months.
And drive faster and more in a hurry to beat the clock.
Can’t take a traffic naps any more.
Didn’t make me one bit safer….