c-16 low power since rebuild

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by Turbo45, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. Turbo45

    Turbo45 Bobtail Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
    0
    My Dad owns a 2003 c16 Cat in a logging truck
    last winter the head cracked in #6 exhaust port
    Kenworth installed a new head, 2 weeks later the turbo expired we installed a Cat reman turbo
    then shortly after decided to install new injectors as preventitive maintence thinking a dropped tip could ruin the new head and turbo we just had installed $$$$ no warrenty left on this engine

    after installing the injectors the truck ran terrible but only after working it hard for about 15 mins then parking it and idling it at high idle
    finning ran the truck on the dyno and after several sets of injectors got the engine to run decent again

    400hrs after the head had been installed the truck started pushing coolant out the overflow
    im a journeyman mechanic at Peterbilt and this time took it apart my self
    #1 liner flange was cracked and we decided to put in 6 new cylinder kits

    as soon as he started using the truck again after this last go around
    its seems down on power
    the boost used to be quite responsive and would go to about 35 on the gauge with a fuel wire and messing with the wastegate a bit before
    now it hits about 32
    ive checked for boost leaks
    reset the valves and injectors twice (the last time I used a dial indicator just to make sure it was perfect)

    my question is
    the timing calibrated on the first try after the rebuild with no adjustment needed on the idler below the Cam gear
    but if it was on the highside of the 4 degree window before and now on the low side would that be noticable
    ive rebuilt many Cat engines and this is the first one that seems weak

    any timing calibration information would be greatfully appreciated
    im a hot rod Diesel kinda guy at heart and want this thing to run perfect

    thanks Austin
     
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  3. DDS

    DDS Medium Load Member

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    May 20, 2008
    Toronto
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    Did you verify the tech installed the correct injector codes to match location? Did you make sure the tech did not play with fuel settings or turn them back to stock look ups?

    I set the cam lash to .006 spec is .008 +/- .004, I found they calibrate easier on the tight side. The is a four deg window before the engine will turn on the engine light for cam to crank timing calibration code. I have not seen any problem with power related to cam timing on twin sensor engines with out a check engine light.
     
    Turbo45 Thanks this.
  4. Jas

    Jas Medium Load Member

    What piston packs did you use? Any blowby? Misfires? Hows the fuel pressure? Did you change the cam on the rebuild?
    Did you inspect the piston pack before installing them? With cat reman piston packs I always check the rings are the right way up and in the right locations and also the piston cooling jet notch is on the right side. Once bitten twice shy as they say :(
    I usually set the valves a bit on the tight side, also setting the injector on the lower step may help (although others may disagree).
    Like DDS said check all the injectors have the correct trims in the correct locations.
    I haven't seen cam sensor calibration cause low power but I did once have a C16 drop power after a cam change, turned out to be the cam was not ground correcty, fitted another reman cam and it was fine.
    Having said all that, a rebuilt engine can be tight for the first 80000km or so, once they loosen up they're fine, maybe it just needs a little bit of time to run in.
     
    Turbo45 Thanks this.
  5. Turbo45

    Turbo45 Bobtail Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
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    I did check the injector trim codes originaly they were set to 6999 but we put them back to stock after a while after reading some information on trim codes on this forum (but it still seemed weak before we cut it back)
    the fuel settings were deffinitly not messed with
    we went with Cat Reman piston packs i forget the part number right now but i looked into it a bit and as far as i could see there was only one available (that doesnt mean i missed somthing are there different ones?)
    i didnt take the packs apart and check .......i should have though but the blowby seems fine
    I set the valves to .015 and .030 the Jakes i ususally set on the high side of the spec .040 on that engine 7cz03457
    ive heard of setting the intake valves tight before and tried it but didnt notice a difference i set them to .013 the time we tried it .......... how tight do you set them ??
    we are getting 20psi on the Jake and the boost only seems slow to build and coming up short on the power 32 instead of the 35 we used to get
    i checked the gauge by putting a T in the line and using another gauge and it was pretty close to the same within 1psi
    fuel pressure is bang on ive installed a big liquid filled gauge and left it in place
    and the Cam is still the original
    i removed the head with the turbo and exhaust manifold attached and never split that part apart so i was assuming that part would be ok still

    Thank You to you both for the ideas here
    i think ill check the Cam sensors and make sure they are both working just incase
    and double check the Backlash i checked it when i put it togeather before i had the rockers on and im sure i set it to .006....... the timing did calibrate at .006 so i guess that kinda rules out the cam sensor not working theory

    any more tips ?????

    Thanks again
     
  6. Far_Call

    Far_Call Medium Load Member

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    Aug 21, 2009
    Australia
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    The difference between 6999 ans Stock trim codes is blatantly different and if you didn't notice a huge difference then its not Injector fuel and as such I'd be looking at other things.

    Did you check the fuel Pressure?
    Were the exhaust sleeves all in one piece when you took the head off?
    Is the turbine wheel damaged?
    Do we have a Boost leak?
    Are we even getting 100% throttle pos?
    So many things but like i say if you notice little to no difference between stock trims and the 6999's then u have a problem!!

    Where are you located as I will be in USA next week... maybe i take my laptop with me??
     
    Turbo45 Thanks this.
  7. DDS

    DDS Medium Load Member

    519
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    May 20, 2008
    Toronto
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    Another thought, did you check the wastgate opening pressure. It should be around 21 psi measured at .039in of movement. It may have been bumped out of adjustment when off the engine. Also it is possible the injectors where contaminated when they were out and fuel flow is now lower? Another dyno would show this by fuel flow.
     
    Turbo45 Thanks this.
  8. Turbo45

    Turbo45 Bobtail Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
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    we checked the fuel pressure, its bang on we replaced the fuel pump with a NEW cat pump anyway just because, we also replaced the pressure relief valve in the filter head just because....... no change in fuel pressure or performance
    the sleeves are deffinitly good we have since replaced the manifold because it was leaking at the expansion joints
    checked the wastegate with a dial indicator and it was within stock specs but shimed the pot with a couple 1/4 inch washers to make it a little tighter which made a difference of about 2psi on the Jake
    Checked Boost leaks and found none...... all the boots for the air to air are double clamped now just because
    ive made sure the throttle is going to the floor and clear but didnt have a laptop to check if the ECM is seeing 100% thats a good idea ill look into that !

    there was a difference when we took the 6999's out but I wouldnt say it was outrageous
    it was about a half a gear difference
    we are up in Canada in the interior of BC
    about 8 hrs of driving from the closest US Border crossing but thankyou very much for the offer Far Call
    right now im back at work 400k away from the truck next time im up there ill be checkin throttle position
    and im going to split the turbo and check the turbine wheel
     
  9. Turbo45

    Turbo45 Bobtail Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
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    Far Call what do you think of running 6999's with these injectors
    1) 6846
    2) 7615
    3)1872
    4)2865
    5)2642
    6)3747
    we took out the 6999 because these numbers seem so unmatched after reading another post on this forum
    on the same note he hauls logs in steep country and is hauling around 61000Kgs when bundled right out
    so we would like to see some decent power out of this thing
     
  10. ranga

    ranga Bobtail Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
    australia
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    Does vehicle have an external fuel filter mounted on chassis rail? If it does you may want check for fuel restriction as there may be a flap of rubber or hose debrie in suction line. Also is engine hard 2 start after it has been sitting for sometime? If so check both check valves in filter head mounted to cylinder head for broken spring or a bit of #### jammed in ball.
    When you set up the cam gear did you advance or ###### it? There is'nt a lot of tollerance but it can make a difference.
     
  11. Far_Call

    Far_Call Medium Load Member

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    Aug 21, 2009
    Australia
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    Without testing them we will never know.. Im about to fly out of oz to USA so I cant test those trims for you this month but even so usually with mismatched injectors and trims of 6999 you will notice a big difference "If" all other factors are 100% correct.
     
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