Need help! Need the truck this week.

Discussion in 'Freightliner Forum' started by dajain, Jul 21, 2023.

  1. dajain

    dajain Light Load Member

    111
    135
    Apr 16, 2022
    0
    Replaced the harness to the TPS. No change what's so ever.

    Wonder if I'm losing enough FRP on decel to kill the engine but not throw a code?
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. SWM_TECH

    SWM_TECH Light Load Member

    139
    145
    Apr 15, 2018
    0
    You state in your original post that you had sid 251 fault for power supply that was inactive with 41 counts. I would focus on getting stable power to your ECM so you not getting those faults. Make sure your batteries are all maintaining the same voltage. I ran into situation where positive inter-connect cable to battery that the ECM was getting its power from was bad. And battery was being drained by ECM but not being charged by alternator because of bad positive interconnect cable, even though the other three batteries were being charged. You may also want to load test each of the 4 unswitched battery positive wires to your ECM with a old sealed beam headlight that would draw like 5 amps to be sure the circuit is solid. And load test your 3 ground wires to ECM in similar manner. And the switched ignition circuit coming from your key switch to ECM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
    Reason for edit: spelling
    dajain, xsetra and QUALITYTRUCK Thank this.
  4. QUALITYTRUCK

    QUALITYTRUCK Road Train Member

    1,817
    1,783
    Jun 14, 2009
    romulus,mi
    0
    Best advice so far!
     
    Bean Jr. and xsetra Thank this.
  5. dajain

    dajain Light Load Member

    111
    135
    Apr 16, 2022
    0
    A definite point to go look at and will do.
    I'm thinking that this circuit (one of the 2 from the battery) may have an issue or it's throwing this code when I go to start it after it dies going down the road due to the fluctuation of the power while it's supposed to be steady while driving.
    The batteries are new and load tested them just 2 months ago, but never hurts to check them again.
    But it still doesn't explain why it only happens when the throttle is let off of. A problem with the power supply wiring would be more random than just happening at specific points I would think.

    And please don't take it personally that I am questioning everything. I'm just trying to figure this thing out.
    Perfect example is....
    I was at Cummins yesterday with the truck and talking to a tech.
    He says, "Sounds like a fuel pump going bad."
    I say, "But wouldn't that throw a code for low fuel rail pressure if it wasn't getting any fuel?"
    Ha says "Yes it would."
     
    Bean Jr. Thanks this.
  6. dajain

    dajain Light Load Member

    111
    135
    Apr 16, 2022
    0
    So, with the history I've had with this truck and the fuel system, I have decided to just throw a fuel pump at it and see what it does. The pump and delivery hose will be here this next week and I'll go from there.

    The Cummins tech did say it sounds like a fuel pump issue so I am going to get that done and go from there.

    While I am waiting for those to come in, I will be checking those power leads from the batteries.

    Once it's in, I have a 250 mile trip planned withit to see how she does.
     
  7. SWM_TECH

    SWM_TECH Light Load Member

    139
    145
    Apr 15, 2018
    0
    I would be less concerned about load testing batteries your two month old batteries but rather checking the voltage of each of the batteries with a digital multi-meter with the truck running to look for differences in voltage. It can be done quickly and easily. If voltage is different it would give you direction. In my example with bad positive interconnect cable 3 batteries were at like 13.8 volts and other was less 11.0 and slowly dropping. So real obvious.

    When you unplug the harness at the ECM and individually load test the each powers and grounds feeding your ECM with the incandescent headlight that is also, a great time to check pin tension or drag on the terminals. I have seen poor pin drag (terminal tension) be missed in troubleshooting and it was a cause of a lot of frustration. Knowing that you have loaded tested each of the powers and grounds and have good terminal tension of power/ground circuits to ECM should be a foundation to build on for your diagnostics of an electronically controlled engine. (Now as to why you have 41 counts of the SID 251 power supply fault on trip out but on return trip you had no faults and both directions you had engine dying when letting off throttle?) I am curious as to what do you use to read faults? Do have access to Cummins Quickserve online? As I have seen convertor of spn/fmi to Cummins faults number. I was always using Cummins Insite so never used that feature. What is serial number of your engine or what is last six of your VIN?
     
    dajain Thanks this.
  8. dajain

    dajain Light Load Member

    111
    135
    Apr 16, 2022
    0
    The last 6 of my VIN are A76578 and my Engine serial number is 11901820.
    It looks like I will need to find the wiring schematic to test the connections and wires at the ECM ro see which ones can be give power to and which ones cant be.
    I have a Megger an I can test the insulation factors of each wire also to see if anything is grounded or close to breaking thru the insulation.
    As far as my scan tool, I have this one. Since the truck is for personal use, I cant justify a $10k laptop for diagnostic purposes.
    Diesel Laptops Handheld Heavy-Duty Scan Tool with Regen

    But, I mention the "history" of the fuel issues with this truck and mentioned some of the parts I've put into it and I'll share that now so everyone knows.

    I bought the truck last year and took it on the my first trip. Changed all the fluids and filters before my maiden voyage with the truck
    Climbing over Eisenhower pass headed towards Denver, suddenly the truck had a hard time staying running.
    Limped it into Denver for the night and would look into it in the morning.
    Found the driver's side tank has a bad pick up tube inside and at a half tank, she starts sucking air into the fuel system.
    Also noticed the fuel lines are in terrible condition SO, I replace the hoses between the tanks and fix that situation with a little re-arranging.
    Next morning, I'm back on the road. Goes good for about 250 miles and it starts to act up again.
    Pull into a shop and have the codes read. (Didn't have the reader yet and that code read cost $200)
    Had codes for all 6 injectors and the 5 volt power supply. Also had a few indications that something was going on with the fuel system.
    This is where I found out about the cooling plate and check valve behind the ECM.
    Pulled it off and it was FULL of rubber hose linings.
    So there I was flushing and back flushing the cooling plate and the fuel system.
    Get the system all back together and back on the road.
    Found out then that the low fuel flow damage has been done.
    Ordered and replaced all 6 injectors across the road from Fleet Pride. BTW, I just love how easy Cummins made this engine to work on. haha
    Get back on the road and I think this is where the current condition started but not exactly sure, but I then start thinking about the ECM getting cooled by the fuel and wondering if damage was done by over heat due to the lack of fuel flow thru the cooler.
    Got it home (limping it with this shut down issue) and that is when I get the code reader and decide to have the ECM rebuilt.
    Was informed that the injector driver was burnt and that would be causing the faults I was getting.
    Got the ECM back and the injector codes and 5 volt supply fault are gone. Haven't come back.
    Still having the shut down issue though.

    I don't think I really need to go into the other issues I had with the truck on this trip, but let's just say that a 8 day trip ended up being a 2.5 week ordeal and even had to get towed once, but that was not fuel related.

    But, it has me questioning whether this is still a cascade effect of that expensive and hair pulling trip with the fuel system?
    Maybe a piece of hose got into the fuel pump.....past both filters???
    Maybe the lack of fuel caused a check valve to malfunction and pressure inside the pump is back feeding and causing shutdown on Deceleration?
    I'm not sure but the new pump will be here on Monday.
    I'll see what it does and also be looking for a schematic to do the electrical testing/diagnosing.

    Keep the ideas coming guys. I really appreciate them!
    As of right now, I have been volunteered with the truck to help by Brother-in-law to move from Oak Harbor, WA to Colbran, CO in about a month.
    Really don't want to have another disastrous trip with the truck like my first one was.
     
    Bean Jr. Thanks this.
  9. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

    5,171
    7,107
    Aug 21, 2011
    0
    dajain Thanks this.
  10. dajain

    dajain Light Load Member

    111
    135
    Apr 16, 2022
    0
    Thanks.
    I just had this ECM rebuilt and tested. Talked to them and they say to send it back to them to get tested and verified without defects.
    I'm just not sure it's the ECM.
    I'll go register now and see what it has to say.
     
    Bean Jr. Thanks this.
  11. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

    5,171
    7,107
    Aug 21, 2011
    0
    I had similar events like yours. Repair was bad connection from battery power. The small power feed circuit looked connected. The wire was corroded inside the insulation.
    With the surge of truck sometimes it would shut off , like yours is doing.
     

    Attached Files:

  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.