My research tells me that tractor trailers did not pull 80,000 pounds until 1974.
Does anyone know what happens if you had a 1972 truck? Or a 1968? Or older?
When all that came into effect there had to have been guys that had trucks that were two or three years old that they were able to haul that weight with, right?
Also, what kind of trailers were they pulling? It was 48 ft? What was the max GCVWR?
Does anyone know when they changed over from vacuum brakes to air brakes?
If 48 ft trailers were the big before the 53, was there a time when there were only smaller trailers and then they upgraded to 48?
@SmallPackage may have some information?
Antique tractor gvw
Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by Dino soar, Dec 21, 2023.
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I can only comment on this part.
Back around 1978, as a teen, I was a lumper back when it was a cash gig.
When I started we were unloading 40' trailers and then they became 42'.
It wasn't until the 45's and then the 48's that we started complaining because the light loads (such as Cool Whip) were stacked from floor to ceiling. We were unloading more freight for no more money.
From what I can remember the 53' trailers didn't come around until about 1983.Last edited: Dec 21, 2023
blairandgretchen, Rideandrepair, Oxbow and 1 other person Thank this. -
Every older truck pre 1974 we have had was registered for 80,000 till retirement. The axle and chassis parts ratings were the same as today. Just the federal gross was 72,000 and some change so the manufacturers rated them that way even tho they could take every bit and more just like today. I have since registered all my antiques at 26,000 gvw to keep them under the regs and cdl requirement. In Tejas this is perfectly legal. I have original year plates on some and state issued antique plates on others. The antique flatbed i pull with them is 8100 lbs and i have it registered for 1900 lbs cap. To keep it at 10,000.
Full air brakes was a west coast thing. Fageol had them in 1930’s and when Peterman bought the tooling in 1939 keep it that way. FL was always full air. Kenworth and Sterling when they went all diesel around 1934. Mack and Autocar were probably the only east coast trucks that had full air in the 1930’s. Generally If Diesel powered they were full air. Cummins was putting Bendix-Westinghouse compressors on their truck engines in the 1930’s. Vacuum brakes were mostly on medium duty gas burners. I have a 1947 Reo with gold comet engine that is vacuum over hydraulic. -
Also during the times of trailers quickly growing in length from 38’ max in the 1950’s to 48’s in the late 1970’s, many trailers were “stretched” in trailer repair shops across the country. One panel at a time so to speak. So a van or reefer that started life as a 40 footer would be rebuilt to a 42’ then 45’ then 48’ as the lengths became legal. Same as with trucks. A 215” wb was pretty standard in the 1950’s-60’s for a tandem conventional. As length laws relaxed tractor frames would get cut and stretched as well.
Vampire, Feedman, blairandgretchen and 3 others Thank this. -
I do remember that. It wasn't new longer trailers being built but trailers were being scabbed onto to make them longer. The seam was beyond obvious.
I believe that the 48' was the first new build standard after the 40', and then of course the 53' followed shortly after.Vampire, Feedman, blairandgretchen and 2 others Thank this. -
That's interesting. Did the Freight trailers up until say the 60s or so use vacuum brakes?
My understanding is that the Diesels really did not become popular until at least the mid-60s or late '60s.
I have a 1967 international r185 dump truck. When I began to research the truck and that giant colossal inline six cylinder engine, which has sleeves in it by the way, I found information indicating that International was really going for the gas engines during the '60s when other manufacturers were beginning to change over to diesel.
So I was just curious as far as the diesel engines taking over in popularity, I thought that had kind of coincided possibly with air brakes / vacuum brakes since diesels have no vacuum like a gasoline engine.Feedman, blairandgretchen and Rideandrepair Thank this. -
Kw , Fageol ( which became Peterbilt in 1939), Pete, FL, and Sterling (which was bought by White in 1952) were the big 4 west coast built trucks. Kw was the first to dieselize in 1934. Followed by Sterling and Fageol. The only gas burners they offered in the early years were big Hall-Scotts or Buda butane burners. They all had air compressors on them for air brakes. Vacuum brakes stopping heavy weights in the rocky mountain states was rare. International Emeryvilles and West Coasters. Mack west coast LT’s and West coast forward axle Autocars were pretty much all 100% diesel after Ww2.
I have seen some ancient trailers in collects or museums and occasionally you run into one rotting away in an old junkyard with vacuum brakes. Usually pre war. They have huge canisters connected to the slack adjuster. Big diameter like a 1970’s Gm power brake booster but the two halves are bolted together with a few dozen bolts. The hoses to the cans looked to be like 5/8 heater hose.Dino soar, Feedman, blairandgretchen and 2 others Thank this. -
It should be noted, while most states went to 80K, Ill. was still 73280 for 2 lanes until 2009! A major PITA as many pickups and deliveries were on 2 lanes, and a CB radio was more important than ever. As Small Package says, trailers were usually 40 foot, 20 pallets, I think, at least when I started. Then came 45s, which allowed 2 more pallets, the 102s came out and you could turn( chimney block) pallets and get 22(?) on a 45 and finally, 48 and 53s.
Diesels became popular in the mid 50s, and didn't offer much advantage over gas jobs, until the turbocharger came out in the early 60s. That changed everything for diesels, as many still wanted gas jobs. Interesting to note, Ford was the last one to offer a diesel in HD trucks in 1963 with the 2 story Falcon. A Cummins, I believe. I never remember vacuum brakes, or 6 volt trailers either. I have seen old trucks that had a "voltage reducer" for old trailers, but trucks always had air brakes. The "piggy-back" brakes changed everything too, as did power steering. Power steering was, I feel, the single most important invention for a truck. It allowed a much bigger pool of drivers. I don't recall any restriction on age for 80K. Generally, older trucks were a LOT heavier, and modern trucks with aluminum and plastic cut that down considerably. Ironically, the trucks today are mostly all big sleeper rigs, so it's about the same.Vampire, Dino soar and SmallPackage Thank this. -
The vacuum diaphragm or whatever its called on the Reo I have sits behind and under the cab. You can see it hanging under there when looking at truck from a far. It has hoses running to it from the intake manifold It is actuated by a rod connected to the peddle linkage to the hydraulic master cylinder. The truck is vacuum over hydraulic but makes a vacuum only supply for the trailer connections. So you have no air supply to a air brake trailer. This is why they fell out of favor. If i am not mistaken vacuum brake trailers only used one connection. So no “emergency” safety brake function available. Not a good combo in the west.
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If you want to read about the “dieselization” of America read the book written about 15-20 years ago by C. Lyle Cummins. Clessie’s son. It has the life history and dream of Cummins putting a diesel in every on the road truck by the 1950’s. Even if they weren't his engines. Got a whole chapter on his Engine brake development and how his partnership with Jacobs drill chuck company came about.
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