Criminal culpability of a Motor Carrier

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Truckers Advocate, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. Truckers Advocate

    Truckers Advocate Light Load Member

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    Criminal culpability of a Motor Carrier

    I wish to start this question by quoting four regulations from the US Department of Transportation Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.

    It is a hypothetical question and I would appreciate it if the DOT officers involved in this forum would respond with their knowledge, expertise and any experience that relates to the subject (question). Any drivers with firsthand knowledge or experience are encouraged to share as well, thanks in advance. I anticipate that there will be more than one question as the responses progress in fact I know I have more relating to the original question and answers produced.

    §392.1 Scope of the rules in this part.
    Every motor carrier, its officers, agents, representatives, and employees responsible for the management, maintenance, operation, or driving of commercial motor vehicles, or the hiring, supervising, training, assigning, or dispatching of drivers, shall be instructed in and comply with the rules in this part

    §392.2 Applicable operating rules.
    Every commercial motor vehicle must be operated in accordance with the laws, ordinances, and regulations of the jurisdiction in which it is being operated. However, if a regulation of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration imposes a higher standard of care than that law, ordinance or regulation, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration regulation must be complied with.

    §392.3 Ill or fatigued operator.
    No driver shall operate a commercial motor vehicle, and a motor carrier shall not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle, while the driver's ability or alertness is so impaired, or so likely to become impaired, through fatigue, illness, or any other cause, as to make it unsafe for him/her to begin or continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle. However, in a case of grave emergency where the hazard to occupants of the commercial motor vehicle or other users of the highway would be increased by compliance with this section, the driver may continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle to the nearest place at which that hazard is removed.

    §392.6 Schedules to conform with speed limits.
    No motor carrier shall schedule a run nor permit nor require the operation of any commercial motor vehicle between points in such period of time as would necessitate the commercial vehicle being operated at speeds greater than those prescribed by the jurisdictions in or through which the commercial motor vehicle is being operated.

    Now for the first question;

    If a company dispatcher knowingly dispatches a solo company driver from point a to point b, let's say Orange, CA to Seattle WA, approximately 1,171 miles, all three states are 55 mph truck speed limits except for a WA with a 60 mph limit on specific limited sections of I-5 (approximately 22.5 hours of driving averaging 52 mph), pick up the load on Monday 4:00 am and deliver on Tuesday 4:00 am, have they in fact violated 392.1 392.2 392.3 and possibly 392.6 as well regardless if the driver refused the load or not?

    Is the request itself a violation?

    Is ignorance of 392.1 a defense?

    Sorry that's already three questions and I definitely have more.
     
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  3. Injun

    Injun Road Train Member

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    If the company intends on repowering the load after the first shift, no. It is completely possible to finish this load in two 11-hour shifts of both drivers are hard runners and there are no traffic or weather hitches. That's not to say this load is realistic. Making the request is not a violation.

    However, ignorance of the law is not a defense. This has been stated in court case after court case throughout pretty much the entire history of our legal system.
     
  4. Truckers Advocate

    Truckers Advocate Light Load Member

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    SOLO please read the post, thanks!!

    Not a line haul from terminal to mid point, drop and hook. Or terminal to terminal. SOLO all the way one driver one load no re-powering or teams SOLO.

    I've got 20 years of experience and I am very interested in the answers the DOT officers wish to share if at all, THANKS
    I ran this route for 12 years and I know how long it takes even though the HOS were different then, but I understand the new HOS as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  5. truckerdave1970

    truckerdave1970 On Probation

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    Just another dumb trucker here,so my opinion is worthless, but my answer is yes.
    No way in hell that is a legal run and expecting a solo driver to complete it on time would require that driver to violate 1 or more regulations thus making it an "illegal dispatch", not to mention, a very fatigued and unsafe driver!!!
     
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  6. otherhalftw

    otherhalftw R.I.P.

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    In the first place the driver refusal wouldn't play into the scenario at all...as the refusal would make the question moot. If driver tried to refuse, and was threatened with termination, then took the load that would cause a delay before the pickup...but in the scenario, the driver did take the load...so moot again.

    Another issue would be what is the weight and how much speed lost on the climbs...but you said average 52 (and that would be for CA and OR...not WA). The first leg would get you to the rest area/restaurant at Crag View (11 hours...1500 hrs on day 1). 10 hour break, starting out for second leg at 0100 day 2, at the scheduled delivery time (legally) if you went I-5 all the way from Crag View, would put you at mp99 (Indian Casino), if you took I-5/97/58 would put you at the Chrome Shop just south of Chemult, OR on 97.

    Knowing the trip as I do...(we run the trip every week)...THE DRIVER would be in violation of HOS regs by delivering the load at final destination on time...no way around it! LEGALLY, Seattle can be done in one 24 period starting from SACRAMENTO not the L.A. Basin anywhere! In your scenario, you didn't say if the driver was threatened with his job if he/she did not take the load, or if he/she were to deliver late...if that is the case (either side) then the dispatcher/company would be in violation of the regs for requiring a driver to run (knowingly) illegally...otherwise it is the DRIVER's violations to be delivering on time.
     
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  7. Truckers Advocate

    Truckers Advocate Light Load Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts’ on this matter
    Point well taken
    The details aren’t important because it’s a hypothetical question, that statements going to bite me in xxx, (the devils in the details). FYI I pulled extremely light loads that direction approximately 2000 – 9000 pounds in the box, 53’ 60 series Detroit tuned up to around 475, so going up any hill wasn’t a problem just going down within the restricted speed limit of the grapevine and Ashland, so where I stopped and etc. isn’t what I am trying to ask. It’s the bigger picture.
    That’s the kind of information I’m interested in.
    I’m sorry but I have an owner operator mentality, my bad. This part of the equation is interesting so for clarification let’s just say no threats or refusals; I am more interested in, “Is the request itself a violation?” I’m considering becoming a company driver again perhaps this will give you some insight to my hypothetical question and motivation of the question.
    THANKS!!
     
  8. otherhalftw

    otherhalftw R.I.P.

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    You are welcome!

    Thank You!

    With those weights (wouldn't that be nice...we are grocery supply/stock, so rarely below 44k in the box...huge difference for sure!) Grapevine would be restricted in speed (45-35), but Ashland you are under the gross limit when speed (above 55 of course) isn't an issue, except for control and brake wear. Remember Ashland is speed determined by the gross weight...under 62k you can still do the 55 limit down the hill.

    OK, will stick to those points!

    As an O/O, your mindset is definitely different to a company driver...you have not only your family and personal bills to be of concern, but also the rig has mandatory expenses, so the O/O tends to push the limits more than the company driver usually thinks about!

    But, still...LA to Seattle is a minimum 19.5 driving hours, no matter how you trim the edges! And if they (the company/broker) do this load regularly...or even more than once or twice...they know (or should know) the load cannot be delivered (legally) in 24 hours. Unless team or shuttle has the load...so by this...they (company/broker) are breaking the rules, and they know it!
     
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  9. Truckers Advocate

    Truckers Advocate Light Load Member

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    I was once a company driver it was just a long long time ago. I try not to remember, LOL. There were good companies and bad even back in the day and I worked for both. After becoming an owner operator I became spoiled shall we say. I was also leased to a very small company only two trucks in the beginning and I was one of them. He grew but we never had more than five trucks up and running at any given point or time, I believe he is back down to three now and his whole operation has changed. To me he’s family even though there is no blood relation. I moved on with my own authority after being with him for over 12 years.
    Thanks again
    C’mon dieselbear I saw you lurking please chime in.
    I need your take on this.
     
  10. Truckers Advocate

    Truckers Advocate Light Load Member

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    I really wanted a law enforcement point of view on this; the follow up questions would have been something like this?
    What violation of law and or laws did the company violate?
    What are the minimum and maximum fines and or penalties for each and every violation?
    Is there any jail time involved in those penalties? (In reference to the above question.)
    Etc etc etc
    Well the truck is loaded and I’m headed to Vegas. I should be back tomorrow around noon. If anyone hasn’t responded by then, I’ll just let this thread die.
    Oh yeah one more,
    What are the odds that a district attorney would pursue such a case if a driver presented the facts and evidence they had collected directly to the district attorney?
    See you tomorrow!
     
  11. dieselbear

    dieselbear Road Train Member

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    Sorry I've been out in the woods for a week camping. Just got back to leave again for a few days. Even dieselbars need a rest. As far as criminal penalties, I'm not 100% sure. If the fed's come in and do the audit they can go for incarceration from other information I have seen for the USDOT OIG.

    Here's a case the US DOT OIG had with a dispatcher for a concrete company:

    http://www.oig.dot.gov/library-item/5344


    But I think it will need to have more involved than just dispatching a load that can be run in the amount of time. Now if a fatal wreck occurred and some other litigating factors were involved, the fed's might seek jail time. As far as I know and have seen from my State, when we go in and conduct an CR (compliance review) or a SA (safety audit) I have not heard or seen any company officials get jail time. Now they can get significant fines, but for incarceration I think you need some other issues to go with what you are describing. Now I did put two company officials in federal prison a few years back for some criminal activity they were using their trucks for. The fed's took the case and prosecuted them federally and seized their assets, over $2 million dollars worth. I think it goes case by case as well. It all depends on if the right person and the right time happens to get involved. I've been aaround court proceedings for over 13 years now, some prosecutors are good and some are not worth a sheet. Some want to do whatever the officer wants, some have their own agenda. So to a degree I think the stars must align just right for some cases to be brought forward and pursued.

    Sorry I was not around to post a reply, maybe Mike_MD could give you a better answer from the federal perspective.
     
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