A very rich man told me once that the best time to start a business or grow a business is in a recession. I started my business during a recession and it boomed. My husband is growing his now, because there are opportunities there that we simply cannot let go to someone else. Keeping your eyes open, and your ears alert, you can find these opportunities. When they smack you in the head, you'd better grab them, because you can darn well bet there is someone standing right behind you waiting for the opportunity.
Going against the grain
Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by BigBadBill, May 28, 2012.
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jess-juju, rollin coal, MNdriver and 3 others Thank this.
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Of course they've been trending great for the last 3 years, they were at unsustainable lows previous to that. I'd like to hear your thoughts on adjusting to the economy when spot rates are below your operation costs? IMO, the only adjustment is to get lean enough that your savings will get you through to the upswing. You do that by laying off and either selling equipment at low market prices or mothballing it, if you get your insurance company to cancel the insurance on a unit without selling it. Your o/o's will be starving as well, looking for a better deal daily. The big companies,however, that rely on contracted freight rates will hurt less, though they'll be getting lean just like the small company due to decreased volume and margin. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but your position on the matter contradicts recent history.BigBadBill and 123456 Thank this.
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Forty, First, I'm not talking trends completely (they have some relevance) but the bigger picture of how the fundamentals of this business have changed. When you use age of authority as a litmus test for knowledge of this business you are giving a great example of all the people who operate with blinders of experience.
Can you imagine a large, public trucking hire a new CEO based on the fact that he has 20 experience as an independent O/O? What does he know about running a trucking company?
Information that I am trying to pass along is to help independents understand what is happening in the market in ways that executives at large carriers, analysts and investors look at it. I don't expect everyone to grasp these concepts. Many will disagree. But hopefully, agree or not, I am opening up the way people look at the business we are in.
And you can still do well if all you know is keep costs down and what your minimum is you need to run (willing to bet most can't even do this).
Regarding the global economy - I have a strong background in global finance. I completely understand the information that is being reported in the financial media. What they are saying is not wrong and should be watched. But they can't do in-depth reports on how all this will impact our economy. Because all of this is very public and open, most exposure has been hedged. And while hedging reduces risk it also reduces returns. So we will see some spectacular flame outs regardless what happens (some are betting big it won't happen and others are betting it will).
But US current economic growth has very little to do with exports. So Europe on fire will not have as big an impact on the US. Some believe that it will be a boom for us because the dollar will strengthen. Not sold on that yet as the arguments for this don't address a lot of currency issues that could hurt us.envayne Thanks this. -
US economic growth has everything to do with exports. I think companies like CAT would agree. The only way exports would not not matter is if we stop importing. Some of the growth like in housing, I would wager is linked to oil & NG, & I would bet that most of the higher end growth is in places like Texas & North Dakota. When oil starts to decline this time of year it shows that there is no market for it. It's coming up on driving season and oil has cracked the $90 threshold, if it continues the downward trend, so goes the false recovery. I was flatbed spot market as well, and one key state that I gauged, is at less than half of available loads that it was prior to the initial collapse, that's not good. I know I a pessimist, but we are no where near a real recovery, and we are skating on extremely thin ice.
BigBadBill, fortycalglock and fireba11 Thank this. -
Vang, I appreciate your posts much of what you say makes me go back and look at my data and evaluations. The only information that I can find that show our recovery is on thin ice comes from the fear mongering news and politicians.
My point on exports was not that it is not important but that at this stage it has not been a driving factor. Reduction of imports, yes, but not exports. So if Europe tanks we are not going to see whole industries in the US go with it.
Oil is the most manipulated market. I have not looked at the data but a source that I respect greatly told me demand is just a tick off and that the current prices are speculators shorting the market. I would love to see OPEC cut product and burn these guys. Because as I think you are pointing out, places like ND need prices at a certain level to justify the investment.
Flatbed is demand is up but it has shifted. I know a large part of the shift is large companies bought smaller companies for distribution purposes. So now there is a lot more regional than in the past. But to be honest I have not got my head around the shifts in this market yet.
Not sure what you would call a "real" recovery.envayne Thanks this. -
"Now, in 2006, data like we are seeing today was coupled with record new truck orders. But that is not the case these days. Truck orders are for replacement and not increasing capacity. Who doesn't love to hear that?"
Again I'm a pessimist!! IMO I think O/O that base their future on partnering with large carriers are eventually going to be at the mercy of those large carriers. I have hauled for hundreds of brokers big and small so I'm not for or against large carriers/brokers. The trend I see is smaller brokerages selling off to or merging into bigger companies. This is bad for the same reason partnering with only them is bad, they will eventually control the market. IMO the reason why there is no huge truck purchase, is because mega carriers have a much better grasp and inside knowledge to what is actually going on in the markets they serve. Mega brokers will eventually fade as well as mega shippers are moving toward asset based companies to move freight. If mega brokers want to survive they will begin to purchase small trucking outfits, example would be Sammons & UTI. So the pessimist in me says although it's good that there is going to be a short term shortage, it will not be long standing and when the recovery is real mega carriers will gobble up trucks & available freight. But what's good BBB, if you can continue to grow, you could become the next Landstar or Sammons.BigBadBill Thanks this. -
im new to the industry will have cdl in hand in 3 weeks and have a great attitude i ran a successful construction business for 10 yrs then went to work for a construction management company and am 37 yrs old and just plain ready to do something different and have always had love for big trucks since i was a kid and i am going to chase my dream of having a small fleet of trucks I need t learn this business and move forward and i pick up as much info from anyone willing to teach I want the truth and cold hard truth and I know some things just have to be learned the hard way but I try to eliminate as much of that as humanly possible thanks guys for listening to me and posting all this great information Josh
BigBadBill Thanks this. -
Pre collapse I saw freight rates around 10K loads available in my go to state, now they are at 4k-6k on good days. So I would say once those rates are around 7k-8k consistently we a starting a real recovery. Keep in mind I'm not saying that it's not impossible to make it now, or now isn't a good time to start, because it depends on the person starting. I'm just stating what I've seen since 2006 compared to today, and I think we have a few years to go before it gets great, or after my hiatus.
BigBadBill Thanks this. -
I hope it is a few more years before it gets great.
You are talking micro regarding loads in your area. But what is a more important measure is truck to load ratio. I have not seen numbers on specific equipment but as an industry we are at 60% of 2006 capacity. Now that does not make use equal if freight is at the same level. So many other factors (rail, length of haul, LTL being more efficient, etc) but to just measure # of loads then and now does not give you enough data to evaluate how good or bad it is.vangtransport Thanks this. -
Not micro in my area, but in my go to gauge state. I check spot market by checking this one state, the reason is, I've followed this state for several years, I know it's peaks and valleys. This state has a great mix of flatbed freight, not like a California where one can be fooled during onion season, or the Dakotas when hay is moving. Truck to load ratios are often off because you may have 100 trucks(exaggerated) but only 1 ITS account. There isn't a real accurate way of calculating trucks in a specific area, other than going around and counting them, so I wouldn't use this as my indicator, but I would use it as a negotiating tactic if in my favor. Loads can be double posted as well or same load posted by many brokers, so this could throw off the ratio TR/LD. LTL is a good indicator, but for my example of 10K I excluded it. If your talking freight not economy, rail has no relevance to me what so ever as to how the spot market industry is doing. If your talking economy, well you saw what I think of that. lol
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47627947 More doom & gloom by a pessimist!!!!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47634203Last edited: May 31, 2012
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