New owner operator

Discussion in 'Canadian Truckers Forum' started by Basic, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. imnuts

    imnuts Light Load Member

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    30-35 after their cut seems high...but maybe if you shipping premium bud?! I've never hauled blower units but know buddys that have and I'm sure they wouldn't mind a piece of that action.
     
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  3. Diesel Dave

    Diesel Dave Last Few of the OUTLAWS

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    Times 2, and Im in the good ole U.S.A.
     
  4. Basic

    Basic Light Load Member

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    Albertuh
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    I didn't just come up with this idea on my own, actually its not my idea at all. Like I said before, my previous boss(and current friend) told me to do this, and he owns 14 trucks and rents out a 4-6 more every year as well as has 6 o/o working for him, drives personally and has 30 something years experience doing all this.

    @Prairie Boy

    Thank you for comments. But I'm having the same problem with your argument as others. Your basically telling me its not going to work, but cant tell me why not. I am not worried about how many cents per mile I need to make my bills at home, I will assume your assuming I'm doing a bit over 10,000 miles because .60 at 4000 miles is grossly different than at 10,000. My unique situation requires me to make about .20 (10,000 miles) for myself to be comfortable and save. I have another income and a spouse who works. That said I just want to know my operating costs, and then figure out whats left over.

    the company gave me 3 statements for September this year, their highest lowest and one in the middle range. For this breakdown I am going to use the lowest gross revenue (truck gross not total) and inflate the costs lets see where that brings me.

    COSTS

    Cargo Insurance 250
    HoldBack 250
    Def Fluid & fuel 13000
    Insurance 1400
    Accounting costs 400 month
    cell phone 150
    Truck Rental 5000
    Tire Blown 400
    Random Costs (GST stuff w/e) 200

    Expenses
    21,050

    Revenue
    30,850

    Left over 9,800

    So with these numbers tell me where I am wrong and what scenarios are going to have me crying. If I can do this and break 4,000 net a month for myself and learn a bunch in the process I will be happy.

    Also, I'm confused, were you saying that your insurance, maintenance and all other costs you incur total .75/mile?

    @Diesel Dave

    Diesel Dave, I'm not saying anything bad about your being a US citizen, I'm just saying the economy and oilfield industry in Alberta is a lot different than economy/industry down in California. I love the "good ole USA". I'm sure you have great experience to share on owning, maintaining, and operating a truck and Id love to pick your brains about that another time.

    @Imnuts

    Your probably going to get a thanks from me before this thread is through. As for getting good rates, they aren't that hard to find. The company I work for now pays $2.25/mile and the owner operators that I work with are always telling me about all the money they are making (Vancouver). Taking home 17,000 a month etc. Others heading to Alberta to take home $25,000. Yes after fuel, insurance and other costs(but not maintenance). You might have to stay in a camp in Red Earth or Rainbow lake but whatever it doesn't bother me I was born, raised, and worked for many years up there.

    I guess your assuming that the company is lying to me, hell who knows maybe they are, but at least a few of their drivers are doing really good because I have their statements and someone netted 25,000 (truck grossed 37,200) after fuel and insurance. I've asked them for more today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  5. imnuts

    imnuts Light Load Member

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    I'm not saying there are no good gigs out there but it sounds over simplified....kinda like when the infomercial tells ya you "can" lose up to 2lbs per day and automatically I do the math and figure I will drop 60lbs in a month!
     
  6. Basic

    Basic Light Load Member

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    I agree, it is oversimplified, because I am new. But no one is teaching me anything, just saying "this is the real world and things don't work out like that."

    Because if you do calculate how much weight you are going to lose with the help of a pro who know all the accurate information(all factors, genetics/metabolism drop etc), and you execute the plan accordingly, you will hit the target perfectly. That's why I am here talking to you, because I consider you fellow truckers to be the pro and not the infomercial. I know the carrier/broker is not in it for my interest at all.

    Can you tell me how much your accounting costs are every year?

    What percentage is your net profits(minus write offs) from your truck taxed at?

    What other hidden costs have I not mentioned yet and probably have little/no clue about?

    When someone speaks about their authority in Canada, are they talking about their insurance, plates, nsc, or all of them?

    Is it in my interest to have my own authority or run under the companies?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  7. imnuts

    imnuts Light Load Member

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    Unless we personally know the company we really can't say if your authority is a good idea or not.

    When I say over simplified its the things that you cannot plan for ie., weather, can't load or unload (for whatever reason), break downs, holidays, etc etc etc....but you didn't need me to tell you that, you've been driving for years. I just spent (wednesday) 6+ hrs trying to travel a few miles to get to the Flyn J in Edmonton.

    As for accounting.... I have no idea (and that's not a good thing). My accountant does everything including my farm, all I have to do is drop off a box of rcpts. I know what I pay him and it aint much (poor bugger) for what she puts up with and my pea sized brain.
     
    Basic Thanks this.
  8. Longhood379

    Longhood379 Medium Load Member

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    The percentage of gross has little to do with the bottom line, the percentage you get to work with does.
    Does the rental include maintainance? who pays for tires? (the rental sound like a great way to find out if you really want to do this.
    Other than set up NSC requires pretty much the same paper work for your own as to run under someone else.
    Read the requirement for NSC Alberta if you are intraprovincial, national if you are intra provincial.
    Talk to the other O O s that work for the company and talk to other drivers.
    You should get a good accounting program for your computer and keep track of things so that you know what is going on, this is a bussiness, not a game where you count your pennies at the end of the month.
    Being an owner operator requires a real love for trucking, not just another job.

    Can you run under the companies wing for a set period to see if this works.
     
    Basic Thanks this.
  9. Basic

    Basic Light Load Member

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    @Longhood379

    Thanks for your input. Your the first person with any experience that has said this is a good idea - you know the whole renting bit. But please, give it to me straight, you don't have to be nice to me, I just want the truth.

    As far as the rental all normal wear and tear is covered, as well as maintenance. I've gone a long time, maybe 9 years, without having any problems - although I will admit I've been lucky a few times too. They are covering the wear and tear on the tires (like tread wear), If I run over a nail and blow one its on me. The truck requires a $5000 deposit (3300 a month plus .08c mile - so pretty expensive - but on the flip I don't need a lot out of the business to live day to day 3,000 a month would be fine).

    As far as talking to other owner operators, I will be doing that soon. Will be interesting to see how long some of their operators have been there.

    Okay Ill look at some computer programs, I guess your saying I could do all my business taxes through a turbo tax or the like and not have to get an accountant. Would you run as sole proprietor in my case or go straight to setting up an ltd or inc?

    As far as loving trucking, I do and I don't. I love being able to work out side and see places, but I also get tired when I work too much, and bored when the job is too monotonous/easy. I think being an owner operator will make it more exciting for me, there is more on the line and the added challenge of trying to maximize things like fuel usage/costs/ etc. I hope that's what love of trucking feels like.

    As far as running under the companies wing, I'm not sure what your referring too. If your talking about insurance, I'm seriously thinking about it since your suggesting it.
     
  10. peak

    peak Bobtail Member

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    Well, after reading this there are some very good comments, but few of them seem simplified enough for a real newcomer. Most of these guys just have too much experience and have done it for so long that they forgot how much of a pain in the rear this was, or that the regulations have made it much more difficult in recent years.

    I will start off by saying that I am US based, and am not familiar with the canadian authorities. I know it is different for each province, so you will have to look into that for the costs associated with that. I am sure there are companies who can get you set up for a fee, but that is usually much more than it would cost you to do it on your own.

    In the US, there is IFTA, which is a fuel tax based on your state, where you drive, and the number of miles you have driven. There may also be this type of thing in CAN, but I dont know. If there is a local department of transportation office (or equivalent) go in and talk to them. If no one is local, call them. They will be very helpful in letting you know how to set everything up and what you will need.

    Your question about whether to set up as a sole proprietor or a corporation is a valid question. As a sole proprietor, your taxes will be very easy to do and requires very little on your end (and if your wife is doing the bookkeeping, thats not a problem). The downside to this is that you are personally responsible for everything. If the truck rental works out, and you want to buy the truck, its all on you. if anything happens that is outside of your insurance coverage, its on you personally. This means someone can sue you for anything and take your house. If you set up as a corporation, there is a bit more work and more fees (initially), but you can put everything in the company and you are shielded from personal loss. Also, as a corporation, there are a lot more write offs and tax loopholes, so you can end up paying less in taxes.

    As far as your month bills for an accountant, if you can teach you wife how to input receipts and make invoices in quickbooks (around $200 one time fee), your annual accounting cost will be that of the accountant at the end of the year. Thats all. Also, if she can keep all of your records in order, you can set up custom excel spreadsheets to calculate costs, profit, miles driven, exact MPG, etc, which will make it easier for you to figure out how much you are actually spending and how much you are actually making.

    As far as other costs, aside from the standard ones, you have to think about things like tires (at around $300-$500 each), breakdowns, unexpected delays, etc. You said that the $5000 per month includes maintenance, but that usually means the will change the oil for you. What if your turbo blows out? Thats 3K that you need to spend ASAP, otherwise your not making money (and dont drive like that, it will cook your wiring and give you a headache, ask me how I know). What kind of transmission? what if you topped it up with some 80W when it needed 50W synthetic, and now you have made the most expensive paperweight you ever bought. Find out what they will and wont cover, and then assume everything they dont cover will break (and at the worst possible time).

    Yes, when someone talks about authority in Canada, it means your registration, plates, fuel taxes, and company are all registered there. If you are from the US, and you want to do haul in Canada, just make sure that your insurance covers it and call the US DOT to ask if everything is kosher. Google USDOT canada and it will point you in the right direction.

    If you have your own authority, it opens up some options for you. You can work for any direct company or broker with your own authority. If anything happens to this sweet gig you have now, you can instantly go work elsewhere. If you dont, you have to rely on brokers who cover you under their authority. And as far as the associated fees with getting authority (in the US its $300, but a pile of paperwork), you can write it off as a business expense.

    I hope this helps answer some of your questions. I have been dealing with this myself recently and know what a pain it can be. If you have any other questions, I can try to help. I am sorry if this is a bit long winded, but I just wanted to be clear.
     
    Basic Thanks this.
  11. rodknocker

    rodknocker Road Train Member

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    You don't need experience to figure this out. Some of these guys have been at it for years and still think they are better off driving for .29 cent a mile and working 7 days a week as an owner op verses .50 cents a mile and paid days off working 5 days a week as a company driver
     
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