Warnings on your CSA score

That's safety rating. The FMCSA does not do safety ratings for individual drivers. The three ratings for carriers are satisfactory, unsatisfactory, and conditional. The FMCSA has actually taken steps to revoke CDLs in extreme cases however. They still score and rank individuals.

oh?

csa.fmcsa.dot.gov/Documents/Driver_SMSMethodology.pdf


DSMS = Driver safety management system

Then why do they do it, why is it in the methodology?

They do it, just not publicly. They want the authority to do it publicly. You seem to have problems with skipping over key words a lot.

 

you keep using a methodology report, to argue law... and loosing...

Yes a government agency has chosen to NOT use the common word POINT... but that is what they are, points on a scale of 0 to 10...

And yes it is a violation of due process, and one reason that the program continues to be in court... As far as a driver is concerned it is a warning ticket, to us, the leo, and the judicial system, just not to the FMCSA. so they added the dataq to try and appease us. Which does NOT work...


Why does it make it so hard for you to use the common word points instead of severity weight times time weight? it is a point score, based upon assigned points to the violation.

Point is not another metric, just the common term, for ANY ranking system.

 

I haven't lost anywhere. You just seem to have a serious reading comprehension problem, believe everything you hear on 19 and don't actually check things for yourself.

But the government will not snag you due to a "point". They issue a score based on that "point" AND CLEAN INSPECTIONS. From that score they rank you with other drivers with violations. If you're above a certain percentile they will do a CSA intervention. However congress has not allowed them to release the score or the ranking publicly. They still do it privately. Congress demands that they do it.

That's my issue with the program.

Oh now points are severity weight X time weight? I thought it was just severity weight? I've explained why. "I have a lot of points" you could have 30-60-80 whatever "points". The government doesn't care. They care about your SCORE which includes CLEAN INSPECTIONS. This is key. "Points" doesn't include that. "Points" doesnt include your percentile ranking which when you're above a certain point you are targeted. But the problem is drivers do care, and even a lot of safety managers who don't understand how the program works. So now we shift from the FMCSA not actually caring if you have 30 "points" because you have an assload of clean inspections and your score and percentile rankings are actually VERY LOW, to not being able to be hired by a safety guy that doesn't know what he's talking about. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT! So as soon as someone says "points" I immediately know they don't understand how CSA works.

 

ANALYSIS: FMCSA lays out plan for driver safety measurement system
By Jami Jones, Land Line managing editor
Building on the foundation of the motor carrier safety measurement system Compliance, Safety, Accountability or CSA, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration recently released its nine-year plan to move forward with a similar system for drivers.

Called the “Driver Safety Fitness Determination,” the system would assess severity weights to violations just like the CSA program for motor carriers. Ultimately, those scores will be processed through “methodology” and a “safety fitness determination” will be arrived at. That would amount to labels like fit and unfit.

Currently, drivers are ranked in BASICs – the individual categories grouping similar regulations together – just like motor carriers. However, the Driver Safety Measurement System component of CSA and the resulting compliance rankings are only available to law enforcement and the FMCSA.

Those compliance rankings are used by law enforcement during compliance reviews on motor carriers and can result in civil sanctions against the individual drivers.

This new Driver Safety Fitness Determination mirrors a plan assign motor carriers safety fitness determinations through CSA. That has failed to launch.

Cart before the horse
The FMCSA is moving forward with this plan because the Government Accountability Office recommended the agency “develop a plan for implementing driver fitness ratings.”

That is all it calls for – a plan. And given the agency still has an industry-wide criticism of CSA and cannot (or has not been able to) proceed with motor carrier safety fitness determinations based off CSA data, it appears the agency is building this program on shaky ground at best.

The plan from the start with CSA, back in 2005 when the agency called it CSA 2010, was to tie the carrier safety fitness determination to the scoring system in the program. The plan was to have automatically assigned safety fitness determination each time the compliance rankings were updated on a monthly basis.

Currently, motor carriers are only given safety fitness determinations of “satisfactory,” “conditional” or “unsatisfactory” following a compliance review.

The motor carrier portion of the industry almost immediately pitched a fit over the automatic assignment of these crucial labels. Even now a conditional rating is enough to spell certain death for a motor carrier as shippers and brokers shy away from any motor carrier labeled with that scarlet letter.

Large motor carriers sink enormous amounts of money into battling the agency over conditional and unsatisfactory ratings. The lengthy, and costly, process is something only the largest motor carriers have the capital to pursue.

That resistance to the automatic monthly assessments of fitness determinations has to, in no small part, be playing a huge role in delaying the rulemaking that would implement the automatic assignment process.

The start of the approval process with the Department of Transportation was initially planned for 2007. However, the notice of proposed rulemaking that would start the ball rolling still hasn’t happened.

The latest report from the agency shows that finally in September 2009, the NPRM was submitted to the DOT for review. It was withdrawn in March of 2010. The current plan is to send an NPRM to the DOT for hopeful approval in September of this year. to this day, nothing has been submitted for rule making...

The abstract on the NPRM does not clearly state that the scores would be automatic, but it does point out that CSA compliance rankings could be the deciding factor, along with compliance reviews or roadside and inspection data.

Here we are six years after the agency initially planned to transition safety fitness determinations to include CSA elements, at a minimum, and it is not clear if it is even a reality.

Now the agency wants to build off of a non-existent platform and apply it to drivers.

again, you are using a methodology report, and not law...

and even if they do internally which I have always said they did,
to determine the carriers score, they are NOT authorized to do it to drivers...

 

And a horribly written landmine now report is law?

Again there are TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS

CSMS = Carrier safety management system
DSMS = Driver safety management system

There are 7 different BASICs in each of them. All drivers and carriers are assigned a score and ranking in each. Drivers are NOT assigned a "Fitness rating" but carriers are, based on CSMS results. Again here are the methodology links if you don't believe me:

http://csa.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/smsmethodology.pdf

http://csa.fmcsa.dot.gov/Documents/Driver_SMSMethodology.pdf

Please take a bit of time to read through them. You'll realize you don't understand the system at all. The upper one is carrer(CSMS) and the lower one is driver (DSMS)

They ARE authorized to score and rank drivers. Congress demanded it. What congress has not allowed FMCSA to do is make this information public. That's two different things entirely. You seem to miss that point.

The carrier information is already completely public. What is FMCSA doing talking to congress then?

 

Using points instead of severity weight or severity weight x time weight

Using fitness rating instead of score or percentile ranking

No wonder you're confused.

 

And you do not know how it works...
the federal government can NOT revoke, or issue violations to a state drivers license...

Actually the government does care what the point total is, and they use that point total (score) to rank companies, on a curve, so that there will always be companies to fine, to get money from, and to keep themselves employed....

A clean inspection is a 0 ZERO point.... as an individual driver, over 8 years, I have had 2 inspections... some drivers go decades without inspections.

Again the company cares about clean inspections, as it is ONE way of reducing the point total score... but time reduces that point total even more than a clean inspection.

Simple math.

A clean inspection does NOTHING for the driver, as drivers are NOT ranked.

It is you who refuses to see past your blinders, and have latched onto a single methodology report, to make your arguments.

And to this day, the ranking system of CSA is STILL NOT USED, to determine if a carrier is a Satisfactory carrier.

 

again using methodology reports, instead of law...that is why you are confused...

 

You cant possibly be this ####### retarded can you?

You misunderstand the law.

RANKING PUBLICLY

Not RANKING

Two different things entirely.

Congress denied the first, but REQUIRED THE SECOND. For DRIVERS not carriers.

 

When you guys are done could we get a Cliffs Notes version please?