Rookies training Rookies

I did and I agree... In this case I felt getting off the main road was safest for this reason... Receiver was 0.3 mi. from exit... No pedestrians around. Of course, you already knew that... Honestly the tires exploding occurred to me but parking in the middle of the road wasn't exactly an option if you know where I'm talking about and unfortunately I need to stop to do something about it.

 

For everybody who thinks pulling out the knobs on the dash will get you to stop faster, why not apply a little common sense and think about what those knobs do and how the brakes work!

Those knobs supply air to the brake chambers to overcome the spring pressure and release the parking brakes.

Pop quiz: How much air pressure does it typically require to release the spring brakes?

40-60 psi is usually more than sufficient. Now when you consider using the foot valve (service brakes) can send 100+ psi to the brakes, it would stand to reason than the foot valve will apply greater braking force to the brakes affected.

Not convinced?

Air up your truck and chock the wheels. Release all of your brakes. Crawl under the truck and mark each rod coming out of the brake chamber. Then, pull the knobs on the dash out to set the parking brakes. Crawl back under and make a new mark, indicating the brake stroke when the parking brakes are used. Notice which brakes DO NOT have parking brakes. Most trailers have them on both axles, but many trucks only have parking brakes on 1 drive axle. Heavier spec'd trucks and other trucks MIGHT have them, but many trucks do not. Now, release the spring brakes and have somebody apply the service brakes...or cut a 2x4 down so that you can wedge it between the brake pedal and the driver's seat (or the dash if you're in a truck with the pedals coming up through the floor...) so that you've got at least 90-100 psi of pressure to the brakes. Crawl back under and measure the brake stroke 1 last time. Notice how much farther the rod moved with the service brakes as opposed to the spring brakes? That translates into stopping power. One other thing to consider, the steer axle has no spring brakes, so popping the valves won't apply any brake pressure at all to the steers. Trucks also have valves protecting the brakes from damage caused by excessive force being applied, meaning if you think applying the service brakes in addition to popping the dash valves to set the spring brakes will stop you faster, it won't.

So, to recap: Service brakes = 100+ psi to all 5 axles. Spring brakes = <40 psi to 3 or 4 axles.

Popping the valves in a "panic stop" situation is a dumb idea. It gets even dumber when you figure that to reach for those knobs, you've got to take your hand off the wheel and for a split second you'll probably take your eyes off the road as you reach for them.

Then again, considering most rookies don't know much about the trucks they drive, it doesn't surprise me that this topic came up in a "rookies training rookies" thread. With experience comes knowledge. A knowledgeable trainer is more valuable than a rookie who merely regurgitates the garbage he "learned" from his 90-day-wonder "trainer" a few months ago.

 

Additionally, regardless of how much pressure is applied to the brakes once they lock up (non ABS, or oos ABS), they are locked up and now control is compromised. Controlled braking and maintaining control of the steering is paramount in an emergency situation in any vehicle. For those who want to jump on me about having no experience at the controls of a tractor trailer, it does not matter. Those principals apply to ALL road vehicles, what matters next is the grey matter between the ears and one's ability to use it correctly.

 

Maybe you could be a trainer!

 

Lol, all this math and physics gonna likely get these new students all confused. Panic Stop...seriously....teach a student "panic mode". control is probably the best word I see in these posts. For a new student, slowing down and staying back is paramount. mitigation of a problem is also a good thing to pass along. Keeping a student slow and methodical, in my opinion works best. Staying slow will allow a vehicle to brake faster and in a shorter distance. As the driver learns control of his vehicle, then adding speed if they feel comfortable is fine.

As for stereotyping rookie trainers into a big basket, thats just garbage at our company. They have all the statistics on how we drive from day one, they've also been studying new drivers like forever. The trainer is also responsible for reporting any issues with the students behavior behind the wheel. These may be deal breakers or just things that the student needs to focus on.

And again, once that student driver is off the trainers truck its all in their hands now. If they've listened they should do well. If they don't get out and look on a back and whack your mirror at a truckstop its likely that they just didn't listen well enough or slow down enough to even think about doing it. Doesn't much matter if they don't listen to a trainer with one year experience or a trainer with 30 years experience.

 

Pulling the knobs while rolling is not going to stop quicker it won't even lock the wheels unless its empty or very light load or at low speed,the only the I would even consider this is if I thought I needed to bail out of the truck or some rediculouse thing like that like a cab fire or ?????? ,bull dog is CORRECT ,the only things I would add are a.maximum brakeing is done just before the tires begin to slide and there fore a heavily loaded vehicle therefor has greater breaking potential as it s tires have more weight and therefore can resist sliding at a higher braking threshold, if u don't believe me look it up ,

 

Wow... trying to catch up on this thread... but had to jump in..

A driver not being able to get under a trailer that is too low is just driver stupidity and can not be blamed on the training or trainer... heck.. I bet even 8 out 10 non truck drivers could figure that one out..

I do believe that too many new drivers blame their stupidity on bad training and too many of us here are just all to willing to buy into it...

 

Werner is revamping their training. . They are brining trainnees in when they have like around 70 hours or so left.. then they are putting them a evaluation and teaching.. they go to the practice lot and are evaluated on their backing.. they have to be able to do a 45, a 90 and such.. they are also evauated on their shifting and given a road test..

Depending on How they do they are either promoted to driver and assigned a truck or sent out with a finishing or specialty trainer to work on their weak areas... so a trainee that needs more backing practice will go out with a trainer that specializes in teaching and training students to back up, they are also on an account where they have multiple stops so they have more opportunity to back into spot or docks in a day..

When they come back from being with the finishing or specialty trainer they are reevaluated and tested..

Also, now as part of orientation before they even go out with a trainer they are taught how to back, do a 45 or a 90 in a truck in the pracrice lot... they are assigned a trainer until the can do a 45, 90, straight and "S" backing.. they are also taught and tested on their shifting on the simulators..

 

Hopefully Werner has the foresight to evaluate the trainers, as well as the trainee, based on their performance during this new evaluation process. A student's performance is often the reflection of the ability of the teacher to teach.

 

Yeah.. they are evaluating and testing trainers too... do not know what or how... I do know last week that two grainers were disqualified and no longer trainers, and a few were put on probation. . They cant take any students for a period of time and have to go through 3 day trainers class again, without pay and re-qualify. ..