Unsecured load

johndeere4020 · Apr 22, 2017

ChaoSS said: ↑

Straps are my go to for securement where straps are appropriate. That is to say, the strap hooks on one side of the trailer, it goes up and over the load, possibly around it, back down to the other side, and into the winch. Straight. The strap doesn't get bunched up going around stuff. For example, I wouldn't think about using a strap in a steel coil the way I use chains. It would go through the rail, and then have to go forward or backward, bunching it up. That's not how a strap is meant to be used. Chains do that without bunching up.

So for coils, it's chains through them. I tend to throw a strap over the top of coils as well, but that's extra, also helps keep my edge protection in place.

Chains are also good in applications where straps can't be used without damage.

I disagree with @johndeere4020 about straps being good only for light stuff. They both have their applications, and the idea that straps don't work on heavy stuff is unscientific bias in my opinion. Physics is physics, and I'll stand by it.

FWIW, I've had loads of steel product that I used both chains and straps on. Where a strap was not perfectly straight across the load, it tends to stay in place in my experience. With chains, if you get them crooked they have a tendency to straighten themselves out, becoming loose in the process. To me this says a lot about that idea that chains hold steel better, I think the straps often "stick" to the load better, providing more friction and more stopping force where it's needed. Chains, on the other hand, are the only way to go when you are putting them in front of a load, or pulling forward or backward on attachment points. The slight stretching of straps makes them less effective in this capacity.

So for me, hauling that piece that you posted, I have used chains where you say they would go, and I'd use straps over the top of the piece. Tarps of course go over it all.
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I guess I talked a little out of turn so I apologize, you certainly can and I have used straps on heavy stuff. I just most generally prefer chains when they can be used, and in "most" circumstances they can be.

johndeere4020 · Apr 22, 2017

Ke6gwf said: ↑

As to the OP load, I don't see how you can meet the FMCSA requirements to restrain against forward movement at 80% of the load weight, with only 2 blocks that are taller than they are wide.
How do you get 20k pounds friction from two 12 inch blocks with no friction mats on smooth steel beams?

If it were on multiple blocks, or full width contact, or something else, I could see it, but how much smooth steel to smooth wood contact do you actually have? Not much, compared to the weight of the steel.

Also, you are relying on wood in a non-strength direction.
If you are a rigger, you have to consider the 16 inches of leverage on the blocks in the forward direction that you are putting on then if friction is your only securement.

Now maybe if they are crane grade kiln dried and inspected hardwood, but even then, what is the sheer force being applied, and how much force would it take to split the blocks at a 45 degree angle downward, as the downforce of straps and gravity is compounded by the inertia driving the steel forward.

If you have the friction, then it just rips the blocks apart, and if you don't have the friction, it just slides forward.

Basically, there is no way to meet the 80% rule without something pulling it back, such as chains!

Even forward and side to side is iffy with just friction on the 2 blocks.
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Well you're a little off, the rule is the securement must exceed a ultimate breaking strength of .80G's of forward movement, the working load limit is only required to be .0435G's. You could achieve that with straps but directional chains would be better. My 2" ratchet straps have a WLL of 3335, the piece weighs 25,000 pounds and you need 0.435G's forward movement control. 25,000 X 0.435= 10,875, 4 2" straps X 3335= 13340 so if you used 4 2" straps pulling back a little you could easily exceed the required minimum. Side to side is only 0.25G's so that is easy to achieve, when talking WLL it actually requires more restraint against rearward movement than forward, 0.5G's for rearward vs. 0.435G's forward. As far as friction I don't see it mentioned anywhere and I would LOVE to see a dot cop write a citation based on your theory, if you have enough securement on it you'll be fine. If you secured it right it won't fall off blocking that's taller than it is wide I haul in excess of 120,000 on tall blocking with no trouble even in hard breaking situations.

johndeere4020 · Apr 22, 2017

BigTennOTR said: ↑

Never pulled a flatbed in my life...but if i ever do.....ima come to you for support.....haha whatever you just said sounds legit haha
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Get a second opinion, then read the book and form your own.

noluck · Apr 22, 2017

Ya'll just got schooled

Chewy352 · Apr 22, 2017

johndeere4020 said: ↑

Get a second opinion, then read the book and form your own.
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Gunner75 · Apr 22, 2017

I didn't read through the entire thread, but judging by your experience with ####ty companies, why not suggest a local company out of Nashville that can handle the job? I mean seriously, my company is based out of there National strategic transport, p&s had a terminal there, and Tennessee steel haulers is based out of there. Just never understand why people go with brokers rather than direct to the companies

OLDSKOOLERnWV · Apr 22, 2017

m16ty said: ↑

I've about had it with truckers in general.

We've been loading out several loads going from Nashville to LA, all handled by the same broker. We have yet to get a single driver that could speak or understand basic English.

Of all the loads today takes the cake. We had a long (30') gantry beam off a machine that had to be blocked 16" on each end because of stuff hanging down underneath.

First non English speaking driver arrived this morning took one look at the load and said he wouldn't haul it because it would tear up his tarps (no sharp edges or anything). While I was asking to speak to his dispatcher, he just got in the truck and drove off fast.

I called the broker and he said he would have another truck this afternoon. Well the second non English speaking driver shows up and is eager to load. We get him loaded and he starts putting on tarps. I ask him what he's doing and he says he will strap over the tarps. Mind you, this more or less a double beam, weighing 25k, sitting on blocks, 16" above the deck.

I tell him he is insane and he needs to chain it to keep it from moving front to back. He says ( in broken English) that I am the idiot and he knows what he's doing. I then call the broker and tell him his driver is in over his head but he is unconcerned. Then I call my customer ( the one that set the trucks up) and tell him my concerns. He then calls the broker and he tells him not to worry about it.

I then send a email to all parties involved voicing my concerns and I managed to secretly video the driver saying he wasn't using chains, I didn't know what I was talking about, and he took 100% responsibility.

I did take a pic but it was after he already started laying out the tarps. The second pic is the piece sitting on the floor before we loaded it.
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My great grandfather (Poppy) was always noted as saying..... You can't talk horse sense to a jack-*#s.

And it still stands true today.
And people wonder why insurance is so blasted high!

Gunner75 · Apr 22, 2017

Gunner75 said: ↑

I didn't read through the entire thread, but judging by your experience with ####ty companies, why not suggest a local company out of Nashville that can handle the job? I mean seriously, my company is based out of there National strategic transport, p&s had a terminal there, and Tennessee steel haulers is based out of there. Just never understand why people go with brokers rather than direct to the companies
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Nevermind I see why now

noluck · Apr 22, 2017

OLDSKOOLERnWV said: ↑

My great grandfather (Poppy) was always noted as saying..... You can't talk horse sense to a jack-*#s.

And it still stands true today.
And people wonder why insurance is so blasted high!
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Can I steal that one? Or at least borrow it.

m16ty · Apr 22, 2017

I stick by my assessment that it should have had at least 4 chains, then you could have finished with straps as you wish. My main reasoning is, it had chain attachment points and the guy had a headache rack full of chains and binders. Another thing is, when you talk about friction, is tarps are designed to slide easily, to aid in covering/uncovering the load and to help keep it from getting torn. When you put straps over the tarps, you loose friction.

The piece was blocked on each end on hardwood blocks, no blocking in the middle. The manufacturer sent me a drawing, showing shipping instructions on how to block it, we followed those instructions. The tall piece in the middle is the precision part that does the work, under no circumstances were we to block under the middle.

The bottom line is my assessment is they sent an inexperienced driver to haul a complex load. He had the securememt regs memorized as to the combined aggregate straps required given the weight. I know because he told me. The problem is there is more to securing a load than just throwing enough straps over it to satisfy the DOT. It's like he thought " x amount of pounds equals x amount of straps " and that's as far as his securememt training went.

Bottom line is this guy was in over his head. Customer should have demanded more, broker never should have hired trucking company, and dispatch never should have sent this guy.

In the end, the only involvement I had in the shipping was to load on the truck they sent me. Only reason I even had the broker's phone number was so we could coordinate when the trucks would arrive to load.

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