70 hour question.

When I was asked to do an H.O.S. training session for a motor carrier here's what I did for the 14 and 70 hour rules.

It is relatively easy to teach the 11 hour rule but the 14 & 70 is where they become confused because some of these fly-by-night trucking schools have drivers teaching these rules & these "teachers" don't know the rules any better than the people they are teaching thereby confusing the matter and making it that much harder to teach properly. In addition, many of the old farts in my age bracket misread the rule and have been doing it wrong for 20 to 30 years.

Have a log picture posted on your board (JJ Keller has a log page on an eraseable board that is about 3.5 feet by 2.5 feet you can stand up in front of the class). Begin by drawing 11 hours on line 3 and then about 6 or 7 hours on line 4 then off duty or sleeper. Tell them to assume the driver had a legal rest period before beginning to drive & ask them if there is a violation of either the 11 or 14 hour rules. Without question most will tell you that there is a 14 hour violation. Be sure to tell them prior to asking the question that you are only looking at the hours of service rule, 395.3, and not the pre-trip, post-trip, or any other rule.

Then make the trainees open their rules book to 395.3. Read the beginning i.e. Carrier shall not permit or authorize, nor shall any driver drive after 11 hours....... Then do the same thing for the 14 hour rule. Then ask them what the rule says they can't do after 14. They'll all tell you drive. Then go to the example on you board & ask them if the driver was driving after 11........no will be the answer. Then ask if the driver was driving (emphasize the word driving with your voice) after 14........they will look at the book & look at you & tell you no. I guarantee they'll get the picture. Since most drivers relate the rules to money, then tell them that they can unload that load of grocery freight & make more money instead of paying it to a lumper........or something on that order geared to your operation.

You can do the same thing with the 70.

The other problem with drivers and state enforcement inspectors is they will always show the violation at exactly the 11th, 14th, or 70th hours which is incorrect as we know because I must be able to prove the driver was driving AFTER those time frames which makes the violation 15 minutes after 11, 14, or 70 (after they began driving). So you also need to explain that the violation does not occur at exactly the 11th, 14th, or 70th hours but rather the first point in time on a log that I can prove you were driving which will be 15 minutes after those time frames. Heck, most of these log checker programs do it wrong as well.

You also should probably tell them that it will take about 20,000 miles to get the wrong out of their head & begin using the rule to their advantage.

 

Your 11-hour driving within 14-hours of duty time begins at the end of your last legal rest period. If, after the last driving period the driver only took a 9-hour rest period, the driver would only have that many driving hours left from the first driving period. If the driver drove for 8-hours in the previous driving period, then took a 9-hour rest period, said driver could only drive for 3-hours. Nothing in the 395.3 rule does it mention a 24-hour/calendar day, but rather, the 11/14 period in the rule is clearly regulated since the last complete/legal rest period.

Please forgive my procrastination in posting this but I just read this comment and needed to respond.

 

Thanks for the advice I just might start doing that

I will say I have always been told that once they get behind the wheel "driving" they are in violation at that time. If they are in an accident they was driving passed the 11,14 or 60/70 hr rule therefore they should not have been behind the wheel.

I do know they are not in violation until they are driving.


What I like is when a driver refuses to listen or believe etc and they get a ticket and comet o me with the pouty look like you was right I am sorry. Them I always appreciate the most and I tell the driver see I tried to save you some money but no you wouldn't listen (with a smile of course because I know they already beat themselves up for not listening).

 

Let me repeat what A B.I.T. officer told me.
Say you start at 4 am.....
Draw a longitudinal (vertical) line at 4 am....
Go to 6 pm (14 hours later) and draw another longitudinal line.
Do not pass that second line...period.
He told me that's what he tells a lot of drivers who can't understand how the 14 hour rule works.
Really it's simple to understand once you know the parameters such as splitting the sleeper berth time and for you local drivers, the 16 hour rule.

 

I personally show a driver going on line 3 or 4 # say 2:00 am and then I count over on the "log clock" 14 hours and tell them to make a mark at that time. If I catch you "driving" (different voice) you are in violation of the 14 hour rule, it's that plain and simple!
Then I draw an example where a driver does a pre-trip, fuel, loading, post-trip, break all in that day and he only gets 9 hours of driving in, but his day is done because his 14 hour is up! Stressing lines 1,2,3 & 4 count against your 14 hour. Then I double stress the only way to drive passed that 14 hour is to split break and then I discuss split breaking.

You can not DRIVE passed the 14th hour unless you 1) have 8 hours in the SLEEPER and 2) you haven't driven 11 hours already.
Then I go on and on and on and on, get my point. lmao!


Everyone has a different method it's so interesting how simple it is but when your used to an "old" way breaking the habbit is the hardest part of learning the new one. That's what I find to be the problem with most drivers or trying to 4 yrs later use the exscuse I thought 2 hours or more extended the 14 hour, well no that's been gone for 4 years where have you been at? l.o.l. THen I smile

 

Good job PS Anderson. Love when people actually post the regulations. That is the best way too find out

 

And there is a possibility that when Obama takes office, the 11 hour driving time might go to 10 per the lobbying from the Teamsters.

 

Yes, but you need to explain the rule beforehand so they can understand what you are saying...........then use your example