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Why do drivers give LEO more than the law requires? Just give what the law requires.

Mark

 

Depends on what and how the state laws are written. Most state laws to my knowledge mirror the federal guidelines for vehicle inspection at an inspection station. To that end, citations are not legal past the 8th day. From what I have seen of the state courts a citation older then that is usually dismissed if fought. There may be some states, depending on how that states laws are written, that can cite beyond that, assuming the records are available within the vehicle. But there's always a new kid on the block with his/her head swollen twice its' normal size that wants to show you that he/she is the boss & does things improperly.

From the federal perspective during a C.R. (Compliance Review) at the main office terminal, I could go back as much as 2-years assuming the documents are kept that long. You'd be surprised how many carriers keep on the home terminal property logs, fuel receipts, toll receipts, etc. for 7-years for income tax purposes.

 

Happened in Oregon. Driver made an error in the addition on the recap arorund the 4th day of the month, and they penalized him for all of them since to the current day of the month.

 

Could be. But a reasonable assumption would also be that the math error caused the driver to be over on his/her hours from that date. But we don't have enough information to determine that, or even make the reasonable assumption because we don't know the entire circumstances.

 

I know a little more about this.

However, if the recap on the front of the logbook had not been completed, and the required logs only given to the officer, there would not have been a problem.

I never complete the recap on the front of the log book. In fact, I don't even recap the hours on the log sheet.

 

The recap is not for the officer, it's for the driver. Assuming the officer was using 49 CFR for his/her guide, there is nothing that I remember Re. a recap in the CFR.

An appeal through the state courts would have caused dismissal under this argument because in order for an officer to determine an HOS violation he must use the RDS pages. A recap is merely a tool for the driver.

I recently returned from MI doing some consulting work. I ended up as a witness for the defendant in a case exactly as described. The officer stated that he used 49 CFR and a recap to determine an HOS violation. I testified that in order for the cop to determine a violation he had to use the RDS, and that a recap was the drivers tool to determine driving hours available. The case was dismissed based on my testimony. Apparently the MI cops have been doing this for quite some time I was told. This case was on behalf of a larger carrier in the area that was tired of the cops doing things improperly, and the carrier had the brains to fight the ticket instead of just paying it.

 

You'd be surprised how many carriers keep on the home terminal property logs

They aren't to bright are they

 

This all boils down to standard LEO tactics, push the suspect to give himself up. Most drivers are intimidated by the LEO and DOT, and will do just about anything they tell them. In the cases that I have stood my ground the LEO or DOT always back down. Most LEO or DOT really don't want to call in a supervisor unless they are 100% in the right. The LEO or DOT doesn't want to look bad in front of boss any more than you do. It all comes down to knowing your right and regulations. Being able quote page and paragraph to LEO or DOT stops most in their tracks.

Mark

 

This puzzles me . What information could be found in a recap that cannot be found by checking the RDS ?

 

Perhaps nothing.....perhaps something different than on the RDS.

But there is no rule regarding a recap. The rule, 395.8, does not mention a recap, merely a RDS, and is the only legal way to determine if a violation has transpired. If the officer merely looks at the recap and writes a citation from the recap, then the evidence is inadmissible in any court simply because the officer must use the rules, not a drivers' tool, to determine a violation, therefore the citation must be dismissed. The recap is a tool for the driver, not the officer, and has no bearing on checking for violations. In order for an official to determine an HOS violation it must be from the applicable number of RDS's (logs).

About 7 or 8-years before I retired while the #2 person in our federal sting I shut down some scales for 60-days in a southern state for doing just that (using the recap to write citations instead of an RDS). Then my superiors in Washington went to the state and made that state return all fees/fines/monies associated with that particular scale for the previous 2-years and expunge all records of convictions, including such things as court records, as well as consumer reports such as DAC reports. This was a case predominantly of drivers not knowing the rules and/or their rights and letting the state get by with clearly illegal actions. But it's like I've said before; "That little green & white book published by J.J. Keller & issued to you by the carrier can be your best friend, or worse enemy depending on if or not the driver reads it and/or understands what's in that book & how to use it in their favor instead of the cops favor".