Series 60 Headers

Discussion in 'Freightliner Forum' started by UnixNerd, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. UnixNerd

    UnixNerd Bobtail Member

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    You're thinking far too macro to grasp a fundamental basic concept of what makes a turbine go around in a circle.

    Forget your test for a minute. Think about just the turbine. You can spin it with your finger or with a drill or with a water hose or leaf blower... SOME force has to move it. In our case were using gasses. Other than adiabatic efficiency and thermal stresses/damage, we really don't care about the temperature.

    An oxy/acetylene torch burns upwards of 4500 degrees F. If I apply a 4500 degree flame to the vanes of a 171702 borg warner, It won't spin the turbo at 100k or so RPM. It will just burn the vane.

    So getting back to your example...let's cover some basics first.
    WHY do we use fuel in an internal combustion engine? To produce heat, sure...but WHY are we producing heat? The reason is to expand gas(not gasoline...air). The expanding gas is what drives a piston downward. Not the heat. The gas is only expanding because it was heated.

    This will blow your mind: Pistons can also be moved by gases contracting. Liquid nitrogen (which is around 321 below zero F)used as a fuel can contract gases in a cylinder and draw a piston upwards.

    A turbocharger is made up of two completely separate turbines joined together by a shaft. One turbine provides rotational force to spin the other turbine which compresses air. (This may be where youre getting tripped up)The only real difference between this arrangement and a blower is that a blower is rotated by a belt connected to a crankshaft. The only difference between water providing the force and gases is...well, ones a liquid and ones a gas.

    The reason that you "see" more boost at a set pedal position at the same RPM is because you're only "seeing" a very small piece of the picture. If you fail to grasp these fundamental concepts, you'll never fully understand how to extract efficiency.
     
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  3. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    I never once stated that heat causes the pistons to move. That's you putting words in my mouth.

    Expanding gasses drive the turbine in the turbo. How do you make the turbine spin faster to generate more boost on the impeller side? You have to start the process by adding more fuel to the cylinder. More fuel, bigger bang. Bigger bang, more exhaust gasses to expand and spool up the turbo. Spooled up turbo, more boosted air into the cylinders. More air into the cylinders, cleaner burn, more power.
     
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  4. UnixNerd

    UnixNerd Bobtail Member

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    I didn't put any words in your mouth. That was my very own example to try to explain the dividing line of what's going on between volume and pressure of gases and heat. Your example was really just posted out of place and was not relevant to the conversation about exhaust.
     
  5. wore out

    wore out Numbered Classic

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    Show me a throttle valve on a Diesel engine.
     
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  6. tommymonza

    tommymonza Road Train Member

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    I don’t know what I was thinking
     
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  7. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    Lots of diesels have throttle valves on them.
    My 2008 Cummins had one on it as a matter of fact.
    Of course for some reason it fell off that truck along with a few other needless parts.
     
  8. wore out

    wore out Numbered Classic

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    A throttle valve didn't fall off
     
  9. Oxbow

    Oxbow Road Train Member

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    Ya see that caption at the bottom of your posts, the one that starts off "Better to remain...…..

    I don't know crap about headers for a series 60, but I do know that @wore out has been twisting wrenches since before the series 60 was created by Mr. Penske and others, and @AModelCat does it for a living now.

    Perhaps you could leave your snide little remarks like "Aww, bless your heart. Are you not getting enough attention?" at the door, and listen to these guys. They know of which they speak.

    And referencing PP's snakeoil does not help your standing.
     
  10. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    Of course it did.
    It’s on the shelf in my shop with the other pieces that fell off.
    Actually I think the series 60 ddec VI has a throttle valve on it also now that I think about it.
     
  11. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    79FD1556-C366-4809-9409-BC47A0DFBD2A.jpeg @wore out here’s a ddec VI with a throttle valve on it.
     
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