Another question about PC

So let me get this straight, seeing as you seem to be the authority on this topic. If I own my truck and my trailer, and I’m running empty on pc to meet my family for a vacation in Vermont, and I emptied out in Michigan, and I live in Colorado, that’s deemed illegal?? If I’m not dispatched, and have no load booked out of Vermont for the foreseeable future, I’d fight that ticket all day long.

 

First of all, I did not render an opinion. I simply stated "legal" or "illegal" is going to be up to the officer and how THEY interpret PC. Further, I said even if you win in court, you most likely are going to have an OOS in the CSA federal data. I then said this is an issue that goes beyond PC. CVSA has been trying to standardize how they train. I also am trying to get across the way DOT officers are!

This is why I urge caution when using PC.

 

PC rules shouldn’t be up to an officer to interpret. Try living in Canada. Here we are allowed 75km a day. No trailer allowed at all.

 

While that is true and I don't disagree it is what it is.
Some ways it is better in US though. For example you own a 5th wheel camper and want to visit family in Texas (from Michigan) you can hook up the camper and PC all the way to Texas and not be in violation. As long as it's your camper I doubt any officer will ever care. Now doing the same trip, for the same reason even bobtail, or empty trailer it would be hard to prove you aren't just moving the truck for work reasons.

But all laws are up to an officers interpretation at least a little bit. Heck, even laws that aren't officers do have discretion in writing violations and citations.

 

That’s the most non “letter of the law” comment I’ve seen from you. Congrats!

 

How some company interprets the regs does not make that interpretation legal.
When someone asks about a regulation, the answer is not how some company operates or lets there drivers operate.

 

I agree, however, I doubt there are many drivers with 10+ years of experience that has not been in this situation in regard TO ANY rule. Almost every state has rules in place for ALL law enforcement types that they MUST undergo continuing education to stay qualified. I suspect these GEORGIA P.O.S.T Rules are close to average. One thing cops do a lot is situational exercises. This is where they learn how to do gotchya questions etc. I was speaking to a retired VDOT officer here the other morning over breakfast about PC. I asked him this question, (redacted) if when you were working you encountered a driver PCing and had been doing so for a long time, what would you do? His answer was short. I would check his "comic book" and see how long it has been since they last took a 10, then act accordingly. I then made a call to someone I know that coordinates some CVSA training about this. This person told me CVSA does NOT want drivers operating CMVs tired. No matter how I phrased the question I could get no further information. So I go back to my main point on this subject. Be careful when you PC and are a long way away from where you last went off duty.

One final point. I am NOT rendering opinions on PC. I no longer drive and to be honest, PC is not something I have a dog in the arguments over what is PC and what is NOT! I am just HIGHLY ADVISING caution when doing it!

 

Why would that matter in either country?
Not engaged in commerce so PC would not apply.
How does insurance work in that case?
Plates also could be an issue.

 

A CMV is a CMV. Doesn't matter the at the moment use, it's still a CMV.

The whole point of personal conveyance (PC) is the use of the CMV for personal use.

In Canada the regs state the CMV can only be used (I believe) 75/km a day. In the US it's "reasonable", which is where the grey area comes in. What's reasonable in one way, isn't reasonable in another way.

 

Absolutely!!!!

In general!
I will post a sentence from what I posted in post #17, Personal conveyance does not reduce a driver's or motor carrier's responsibility to operate a CMV safely. As I stated the CVSA AND FMCSA both are committed to keeping tired drivers off the road. Cops routinely operate in "grey" areas. Going back to my post on this subject, cops are always being trained on how to do things. I have no opinion on PC, I just refer back to what the FMCSA has published on the subject! I can't stress this point hard enough!!!! If that DOT cop wants you off the road they have a full toolbox and they will take you off the road. You may or may not win later on in court. The thing is for that day and time you are most likely OOS. Now try getting that removed from CSA! Again for emphasis, PC with caution especially when the PC turns into hours and the distances get into the triple digits!