Bad Advice

I heard the show in question on Sirius this moring. I also agree that if you fueled it would take enough time that it needs to be recorded and not flagged..... if you were on duty.

I understand the drivers need to fuel though. If you are on a 34 hour reset you still need a shower. They were talking about getting 50 gallons quickly. Why would you want to pay for a shower or wait 34 hours to fuel so you can knock some stink off your body?

If you are empty. Your vehicle is your personal mode of transportation. On a 34 reset you can travel to get food or do as you please for entertainment. As a personal mode of transportation you still can fuel it without being on duty just as you would your own vehicle. I believe this is what he was thinking when he made the statement. Personal conveyance was a major theme at the time the statement was made.

Flagging it is the proper thing to do at the very least with a statement stating Personal conveyance. Any Officer that would nit pick such a petite thing would really be pushing. I can't seem to find anything in the FMCSR that states you can't fuel a vehicle under the personal conveyance clause.

Obviously the easiest solution is to pay for the shower and fuel when off break making sure you have enough fuel before you go on break to cover any idling. Some people just like to think out of the box.

Personally this is not a situation I would want to be in. If an accident were to occur later in the week it would leave too much to be debated.

If you get a response from Mr. Low please post it as I'm curious what his answer would be.

 

I've got to agree with HWNH... as long as you're bobtail. The fact is that if LEO/DOT takes a very narrow view of a sleeper berth break, then in fact, we should be crapping in our cabs. That's ridiculous. So is the idea, that we can't walk to the truckstop, get some really bad for our health fastfood, and walk back to the truck. What are we? Prisoners in our trucks?

I didn't hear the part of the show that was cited in the first post, but Prime is a reefer outfit. Less than 50 gallons is usually what we specify if we need some reefer fuel. So let's say you have ice cream, you're waiting at a truckstop in 110-degrees, and the reefer has been running non-stop. So, what... you're supposed to let the reefer tank run dry, and spoil a complete load - or sneak into a deserted fuel island at 1 AM, grab a few gallons of fuel, and be done with it in less than 15-minutes?

 

So THAT'S why drivers are crapping in bags and throwing them out the window at the truck stops... they're just following the letter of the law. It all makes sense now.

 

I feel ya... I don't think you would be able to get away with fueling a reefer though during a 34hour reset lol. Don't those things run for 2 days straight on a full tank running constantly though? Or how about if the unit fails during a 34 reset? I wouldn't be under a load for a 34 reset because it would take options away from me.

 

If fueling the truck and/or refer unit tank is a normal part of your duties, then how is it that you believe you can do this on your personal time without having to log it? Your theory is incorrect from the federal perspective and you must still log the fueling time which would interrupt your rest cycle. Just look at the definition of on-duty time at 395.2. This specifically tells you that servicing a commercial motor vehicle is duty time.

From a retired federal DOT official

 

Sometime you don't have a choice. I run Toronto - West coast - Toronto.
Mostly, I reset when I unload, but, if I get a good paying load on the same day, I will reset on the way back, usually in SLC, UT. My reefer fuel tank is quite small, only 30 gallons, so, I WILL run out of fuel during my 34. When I have to fuel during 34, I just pay cash, so there is no record of it.
Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do...

 

I had this very discussion years ago, in connection with fueling a reefer during a reset. The tank was only 25 gallons.

While 25 gallons will allow for a "flag". You'll never prove in a court of law, or otherwise. That a truck stop allowed you to sit at the pump for 34 hours.

Fueling while in personal use, requires the use of "personal" monies, not a company fuel card. To meet the standard of "personal" conveyance.

Primes safety director is a pencil pushing idiot. Who won't be paying the fine(s) levied on the driver.

 

Personally, I wouldn't. I either hit the fuel island at the beginning or end of a rest period - and I usually prefer to do it at the end of the rest period so that you guys can't quibble about when I arrived.

For the life of me, I can't understand why Don L. would have said it's alright to fuel during a rest period. However, when something takes less than 15 minutes, how can you fault us for just "flagging" said item?

Hypothetical: Lets say we have four separate actions, each should be logged, and each takes us less than 15 minutes to accomplish - say a minute per action. Why should we show an aggregate logged time of 1 hour when the actual time invested is 4 minutes? At some point there has to be some reality inserted in the log book - and at some point you have to give us a fair shake on this.

 

Here's the rule. I'll highlight the applicable part in bold print.

TITLE 49
TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER III
FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 395
HOURS OF SERVICE OF DRIVERS
Table of Contents
Sec. 395.2 Definitions.

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include: (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier; (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time; (3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time; (4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth; (5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded; (6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle; (7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, in order to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post- accident, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier; (8) Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of a motor carrier; and (9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier. Seven consecutive days means the period of 7 consecutive days beginning on any day at the time designated by the motor carrier for a 24-hour period.

Nothing wrong with flagging. But when you do it during a rest cycle it breaks the cycle & you must start over again.

Or for the down time when the driver gets placed O/O/S for falsification. I wonder how much that would cost them?