Bad Advice

I don't understand what you're asking here . Do you expect law enforcement to help with your wages ? The solution is knowing terms of compensation when hired . I'm paid percentage . A set loading/unloading time is included in the rate . I get paid detention time for anything beyond that . I don't work for free .
A few years ago drivers might have been able to make a stand and demand changes . Too late for that now . There are too many wannabes holding CDL's that will accept any conditions .

 

Even before I retired we had no control over, and it was none of our business, how or what drivers are paid. Neither did we regulate where you went. That is between you, and your place of employment, and in Re. how much you were paid the U.S. Department of Labor. I do know that when I retired, if you filed a complaint against a motor carrier to us Re. the regulations, we were required to investigate that complaint within 90-days. It may be longer by now, but the law is in place. Perhaps if more drivers did complain to the FMCSA then carriers wouldn't treat you like second class citizens.

 

Well here's my point with that little 6/10 of a mile example. The FEDERAL DOT APPROVED computer nanny paperless logging system that my company is experimenting with allows us to MOVE 6/10 of a mile without any restriction to where or what kind of road surface you are on WITHOUT moving the driver from line 1 or 2 to line 3. Thus no flagging occurs. The rest period is not interrupted.

Nice try? Bah!

Maybe it's just that the jack-booted, waaaayyy too self-important DOT gestapo thugs at the chicken coop are really "jack-booted, waaaayyy too self-important DOT gestapo thugs," and really are intent on hamstringing commerce in the process of filling the coffers with excessive and unwarranted fines to ensure that their paychecks don't stop coming. Perhaps its time for a little common sense in the enforcement of the HOS rules. Either that, or let's just start handing out the internal passports, put up movement checkpoints every 10 miles, require travel passes to go down the street to the C-store, and turn this country into the facist hell that DOT enforcement really seems to think this country is - like they're trying to do in Minnesota.

 

Exactly the opposite. I can handle my own wages. The last thing I need, is someone negotiating my pay scale.

Safety and wages are a single issue. The elephant in the room, that nobody wishes to address in a truthful manner. They are combined whether we want to see it that way or not.

But they (law enforcement) could assist in lobbying for the removal of "incentive" pay IE per mile pay or percentage for company drivers. This would force companies to reorganize into an alternate method of pay.

And shine a glaring light on just how corrupt many of these companies are.

The politions have even backed off the EOBR, because lobbyist are waging a war against it. It would cost untold amounts of money in wages, and increased cost.

Right to privacy issues also prevent you from interacting with a prescription drug abuser, until they hurt themselves or someone else. Or do something equally stupid.

But it doesn't change the fact, if the problem had been addressed effectively to begin with. It would be a none issue.

You want highway safety, but refuse to address the leading cause of violations. It is not outlaw drivers. To refer to these drivers as outlaw is shifting the real problem that no one wants to address.

Safety and how a driver is paid for his work, are directly connected. Not how much the driver is paid. Ignoring that, is the biggest issue out here right now.

The trucking industry is one of only a couple within the US that allows for excessive overtime at will, by the employer or employee. And no one questions it, until someone dies. Then it's too #### late.

The transportation industry is ripe for re-regulation. It will eventually happen. But without our input now, we all lose.

 

I agree with you. Look at the buffalo airplane crash. It has come out that they were underpaid undertrained and commuted from across the country to fly out of New Jersey. They took a rest period against company and FAA policy in a company lounge. All the changes that occurred in the aviation industry occurred because of 9/11 and the loss of business affecting the safety of the smaller regional carriers. As the less qualified pilots find it difficult to fly for the major carriers they are forced to commute larger distances and work for for halve to seventy percent less than what a major airliner pays their pilots. Thier pay is based on the size of thier plane and whether they run international routes or not.

In our industry the cream of the crop will never get what they should earn because our safety and initial training standards are too lax. It is too easy to flood the market with new drivers that can't follow the easiest of rules, never mind interpreting rules that don't make sense.

When there is a true driver shortage things will get safer and paid fairly. Whether this can be made to happen is to be seen. There are far too many drivers with swollen legs, can't breathe, can't drive or couldn't pass an IQ test with a score over 110 out on the road. Start pulling the medically unfit drivers off the road and we will have a fighting chance at better pay.

Everything points to the retracting economy. All because too much of the revenue stays at the top. As the top realizes this they let some cash trickle down... just enough to keep the rest of America thinking they are living well.

Capitalism is our true enemy. CEO pay needs just as much reform as the trucking industry does. I don't imagine this would happen unless our economy were to finally fail. People have been forseeing a failed economy since we came off of the gold standard. I just hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

 

Go ahead and be appalled..as you say "MANY YEARS AGO", the rules wre different then, split sleeper berth was manageable, (especially with the stated scenario), you could use the 5 on 5 off in the sleeper. You say you did write some of the rules, well for most of us the rules weren't changed to aid in safety, but to enable DOT and FMCSA a stronger tool against companies and Independant Contractors. Just be able to drive a rig doesn't qualify you to legislate rules and regulations.

[qoute]And by the way, Mike MD is correct in his statements Re. highways so long as the driving public can use that road in the truck stop.[/quote]

Nobody said he wasn't correct that a truck stop is open ground for 4 wheelers..motoring public, but a shipper/receivers private property, especially in the dock areas, (usually fenced and having a security gate) does not make this portion a public motorway. As I said, as long as you stay on S/R property, you don't change duty status on your log.

You are leaving out the multi stop, same municipality, aggregate time rule. As is normally done by DOT and company auditors. Your arrival time, plus the time to go round-trip to the staging area and back, THEN log in the (to be in step with most companies auditting) 30 minute unload. After (in this case) the 10.5 hours, the driver is legal to start a new 14.

 

You may be (probably are) correct when you are talking about a paperless log system. However, your company will openly admit that there are inherant problems with the system. My accident scenario still stands legally against the driver using the paperless system, and the company by the way. Also the group that has always contested, and hates the paperless system are the DOT scale officers, and insurance companies, due to these instances where it does not honestly show the drivers movements. It still requires 52.8 mph to travel 6/10ths of a mile in 1 minute, your log system doesn't change physics.


So....BAH, RIGHT BACK AT YA!!!

No argument here. Don't know anything about what is happening in Minnesota, but good luck up there!

 

LOL! I've decided you're OK! Not looking forward to the computer nanny myself!

Personally, I'm for some common sense written into the HOS regulations. No one always needs 8 or 10 hours of rest, although I certainly get tired enough at times to want it. That being said, sleeping for 3 hours while being unloaded, then being allowed to leave a shipper/receivers property and drive a few miles to a legal and safe parking area, then continuing the rest period doesn't seem to be unsafe to me. Nor does moving the vehicle from the dock to the trailer yard, and sending a QC depart shipper/receiver message in an uninterrupted rest period.

You've been living under a rock, yes?!! Subjective questioning of drivers, without disclosing the intent to shut them down, using a bogus "checklist" developed by a power-hungry state DOT officer. In one case, an OOIDA member was declared fatigued and put out of service due to his answers 10 minutes after departing a 10-hour break. Needless to say, OOIDA is suing MN, state DOT and individual officers involved in federal court.

Search for a recent thread concerning MN, DOT and/or checklist as keywords, and you'll find something about it here. Also there is quite a bit at OOIDAs Landline website.

 

I guess, sort of under a rock (lol), just doing the I-5 from Sac to Kent, Wa back and forth, with a rare trip over to SLC. So not much outside of that zone really affects me. I will check on what is going on up there, if there are suits against state and fed, then it must be bad.

I have seen some comments on the issues, but didn't pay much attention to them, from now on I will.

 

My .02

If I were to run strictly to the letter of the law, I'd be so #### tired that I'd probably crash and burn—killing a whole school bus full of handicapped senior citizens in wheelchairs. The 11-14-70 blows donkey nuts—forcing you to run when you might be better served taking a four hour nap... or six... or maybe even three.

That being said, I'm sure some "Dudley Do-Right" is going to pipe up and say, "If you're tired, it's against the law to drive". Well... screw that, I have a family to feed and there are no good paying local jobs in my area. I sleep when I am tired, not when the DOT says I should be tired. So sue me... I adjust my log as needed to insure that I get the sleep I need and don't kill anyone.

And with that being said, some moron is going to say, "Move where there are good jobs." Ahh, no thanks, my five acres is paid-for. The real estate market being what it is... no thanks.

I drive when I'm awake... I sleep when I'm tired... and I don't crash the truck. Those are MY rules of the road.