Is this a gray area?

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by Flying Dutchman, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman Road Train Member

    1,274
    522
    Nov 2, 2009
    Northern California
    0
    I driving down to Orange County today and was doing some thinking, of course. This is what I came up with.

    If you have your N endorsement, but not H (or X) can you drive a fuel hauler that is empty and not placarded? Basically a tank vehicle designed for hazmat, but empty?

    Or, can you drive a truck, like ConWay doubles for example, and pull the 1st trailer AND dolly, with no 2nd trailer, without your T endorsement? Is that dolly considered a trailer by itself or not? I realize ConWay probably requires your T endorsement to get hired on, but for example's sake :)
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. Coonass

    Coonass "Freshy Fresh"

    1,080
    1,179
    Sep 23, 2008
    0
    Yes to the first one, and no to the second. The dolly would be considered a trailer
    so you would need the triples endorsement.
     
  4. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman Road Train Member

    1,274
    522
    Nov 2, 2009
    Northern California
    0
    Reason for asking that one, is that "Triples" are not legal in CA, but doubles are. Meaning Trailer 1, dolly, trailer 2. Even without trailer 2, it's still 2 trailers? This is where my confusion set in lol..
     
  5. otherhalftw

    otherhalftw R.I.P.

    13,081
    45,332
    Nov 18, 2008
    CA...gold discovery foothills
    0
    Any fuel truck is technically never "empty"...there is residue still in the bottom of the tank...so once loaded with a placarded liquid...the placards remain.

    Con Way pulls doubles (in Orange County, as triples are a no no in CA)...when you see a truck pulling one trailer with con gear and no second trailer, it still falls under the Doubles endorsement...however, the Doubles/Triples endorsement is the same written test...so if you have the Doubles endorsement, you also have the ability to pull triples...as soon as you get out of CA.

    BTW...fuel trucks with two tanks are most commonly truck/trailer...as the first tank is mounted to the tractor frame and the rear tank is a trailer...so they aren't doubles, but tractor/trailer. And they are a whole different world in backing!
     
    GasHauler Thanks this.
  6. otherhalftw

    otherhalftw R.I.P.

    13,081
    45,332
    Nov 18, 2008
    CA...gold discovery foothills
    0
    No...the con gear (connecting gear) are not considered a trailer, but an extension (connection) for the second (and if necessary the third) trailer.

    However, if pulling a con gear without the attached trailer, the con gear is required to have a complete set of brake and turn signal lights.
     
  7. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman Road Train Member

    1,274
    522
    Nov 2, 2009
    Northern California
    0

    I hear ya on the backing...I drive a transfer dump so thats what i have to back every day, lol. Same setup, but I have a longer drawbar. And thats what I have always called a "truck and trailer", not a "tractor/trailer" since without the trailer, the "truck" is still capable of transporting commodity, while a standard tractor is not.

    I do have my T endors. just in case I ever needed to use it, (bottom dumps) but wondered how that dolly factored in to the equation if there was no trailer hooked to it. Bottom dumps are I guess what you would call "true doubles" since there is no separate dolly for the 2nd trailer.
     
  8. CondoCruiser

    CondoCruiser The Legend

    19,726
    18,734
    Apr 18, 2010
    Tennessee
    0
    You are thinking too much. :biggrin_25523: But you killed some road time. Truckers are good thinkers.

    I highly doubt anyone would be put in those positions without having the endorsements and doing them jobs for a living.
     
  9. Brickman

    Brickman Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

    12,907
    12,209
    Sep 17, 2006
    WY
    0
    Final delivery of new trailers would be one case where you might be pulling equipment that could have a placard on it at some point. But a HM and tank endorsement wouldn't be needed.

    At this stage in the game the new empty tanker is no different than a empty van trailer.


    A once placarded tank can be unplacarded is if its got a certified wash out.
    Make sure to have a copy of the certification with the driver.
     
    otherhalftw Thanks this.
  10. walleye

    walleye Road Train Member

    3,028
    4,306
    Aug 21, 2007
    Land of Cheese
    0
    And mud flaps,..............
     
    otherhalftw Thanks this.
  11. otherhalftw

    otherhalftw R.I.P.

    13,081
    45,332
    Nov 18, 2008
    CA...gold discovery foothills
    0
    When I typed that last night...it just wasn't ringing right...truck trailer...that's the ticket

    I did a very short stint on some bottom dumps, asphalt and road base...just not enough work for my taste...work a couple days and 5 or 6 off...doesn't cut it for my budget...they didn't require any special endorsement beyond the regular Doubles/Triples.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.