Questions on a project

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by Eric Strongbear, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. Eric Strongbear

    Eric Strongbear Light Load Member

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    New to the forum, I need information from people who are in the know about what engine and transmission combinations to stay away from and what to look out for in an engine when in use. It's going to be a private vehicle, a mid-engine car-style rig, I know this isn't the best place for this topic but seeing as how I'm planning to use equipment out of a class 8 truck it'd be as good a place as any. The engine I'm thinking of is a CAT c13, was originally looking at a 3406 but with it being ~6,000 pounds dry that would not be a good option because of its weight and size. Next option I looked at was a c15 but given the overall size and weight differences between the c13 and c15 and them being within a couple hundred horsepower and torque of each other as rated on the CAT website I decided on the c13, it's still going to be one big ol ####er of an engine for something like this and put out plenty of power. I'm not too familiar with manuals in this class, I figure a bog standard Eaton transmission, either a six speed or a ten speed, haven't decided on that yet, nor the rear end, although I have considered doing something custom such as independent front and rear suspension using one ton truck components and lighter. Anyway, is there anything major to worry about with the c13? Are the issues, presupposing there are any, associated with emissions? If so I'll look for an engine from before the EPA mandated there be emissions equipment on equipment. Is there any way to increase the power output of these engines? Being a new driver for a large carrier I've only had experiences with Detroit and even briefer experiences with Cummins so I'm wholly unfamiliar with CAT. Thanks in advance for the info.
     
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  3. 650cat425

    650cat425 Road Train Member

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    What do you plan on being the end use for the machine you're building? Is it a cruiser/show rig or built for speed or...? Different applications require different components. An emissions c-13 has the iva's and the compound turbos and some other minor things that can handicap it against a preemissions motor, but it can still be a fine motor. That's assuming you meant the engines not made between 2008 and 2010. Trying to use one of those would be a horrible idea. Any engine you go with now can be quite cost prohibitive because anyone building a glider or trying to keep old iron (pre 99) on the road wants the older, nonemission motors. Of course, supply and demand affect prices. I do believe, stock, a c-13 can go up to 470hp. If you want to spend the money to do a single turbo conversion and some programming, I'm sure you can go well above that, though I've never seen it done. The trans will be decided by what you intend on using the vehicle for, as well as what is spec'd to withstand whatever power you're putting out at the flywheel. You seem to have a good idea of what you want and you sound open minded toward accomplishing your goal, but it comes down to a lot of math and figuring out what works with what.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    Reason for edit: Forgot to specify which series emission motor I meant.
    Eric Strongbear Thanks this.
  4. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    I don't understand what you want to DO with that CAT. Like them old 3406's I think of 13's 15's and 18s for them. You can move the world all the day is long with them.

    Don't for gracious sakes throw a 6 speed or 10 speed on that kitty.

    Its well and good to talk heavy truck engines, but the first question to me is "What are you trying to do?" and the second question becomes Where you gonna run that? That tends in the realm of the United States territory and all things in between creates a situation where you can build a truck on paper that will serve you best.
     
  5. Eric Strongbear

    Eric Strongbear Light Load Member

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    My end goal is a show rig and something built for speed, or at least however much speed can be had with this kind of setup while still being safe. I currently have my eye on a 2006 single turbo c13 with "zero hours, zero miles" on it for $22,000. The quotes are because I don't know how true this is and I don't know how honest the seller is, not a mark against them, I just haven't dealt with them before so I don't know. It does, however, look to include the front accessories and a mess of wiring and plumbing so I'm going to assume it's pretty much a complete engine. As for transmission and rear end I do understand that the gearing and number of gears depends largely on anticipated top speed, tire size, vehicle weight, and rpm range of the engine, half of which I know and half of which I can pretty well guestimate. As for transmissions, is there a noticeable benefit of a Road Ranger style of transmission in the EF family over a non-Road Ranger transmission? Is the change between the high and low range in the gearing done by mechanical linkage in the shifter or by electrical input or air via the selector on the knob?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    Reason for edit: Autocorrect rape
  6. 650cat425

    650cat425 Road Train Member

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    To the best of my knowledge, an '06 would've had compound turbos from the factory. If it's a single, it was most likely done during the rebuild. If that's the case and if it's the same as an accert c15, they should've put lower compression pistons in it and either eliminated or completely backed off the intake valve actuators. Doing this requires reprogramming, so either insure that was done or that you can get an ecm to have it done to. The best I can do to answer your trans. questions are to tell you the biggest difference, besides number of gears, is the torque rating. You'll basically require a minimum of 1650 ft. lb. to work behind that motor with dependability. The switch from high to low is all air operation, same with overdrive on a 13 or 18.
     
  7. Eric Strongbear

    Eric Strongbear Light Load Member

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    That's good to know on both aspects. The ratios in a ten speed from what I seen on Eatons website would be insane for an application like this and so I'm going to go with a six speed because of the better ratios, from what I know of how transmissions and clutches are rated it's for a given lb-ft amount at a certain weight, for example a tr-6060 in a fifth generation Chevy Camaro SS would be rated for ~430 horsepower at ~4,000 pounds gvw. I'd have to do more research into the specifics of the rating on their website before I put down the money on it, if I couldn't end up fudging the rating in my favor I think I'd have to go with the ten speed for the strength and compensate for the less than ideal ratios in the axle gears
     
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  8. 650cat425

    650cat425 Road Train Member

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    One thing in your favor is that you wouldn't be moving much weight compared to what the factory set up would be for a combo. I wouldn't call the 10 speed bad for your setup... Like you said, just compensate for it in the rear. You could always start out in 3rd, skip to 5th, then hit thru the top side. You'd still only be using 7 gears. Lol.
     
  9. Eric Strongbear

    Eric Strongbear Light Load Member

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    I guess the hard part in that situation would be finding a center section, differential, and gear set that would best match what's needed in terms of gearing but in the end it's not like one more custom piece isn't going to keep this from being completed when seemingly the only things on this that aren't being used in a weird way would be the interior components, the fuel system, and the wiring
     
  10. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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  11. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    I don't think you'll find a 6-speed manual that'll handle the torque from a 12-15L engine. Mostly see the 6 and 7 speed manuals behind 7-8L engines. An 8LL can have an input torque rating of up to 1,650 lb-ft. I think the highest rated transmission from Eaton is an 18 speed and its like 2,250 lb-ft. No idea what model it is though.
     
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