Does anyone negotiate any more

It will take a while. Start with "always ask for more" that'll lead to finding what a given lane tends to run at. Also consider that not many folks will tell you if you've lowballed yourself: they'll just let you run for less money from then on.

Run the same or similar lanes for a while and see what you make of it. I do a lot of the same stuff or the same folks. Work a lane, get to know who runs freight on that lane and what they have to offer.

 

When a broker asks where I'm looking to go, I respond wherever they're desperate to cover.


As for rates, I think seeing what is posted gives you the best idea of the current market. Members Edge (DAT) doesn't show advertised rates on the main screen unless youre in mobile view. ITS shows the rates by default.

DAT lanes are based on a 90-day average and ITS ratemate often has very small samples.

DAT's "hot states" is pretty worthless. It is just a snapshot of the load/truck ratio on Monday morning for the entire state (not useful measures in big states like CA and TX). You can look at the load map and get current load/truck ratios (on DAT). ITS gives load/truck ratios as part of ratemate.


If it is a hot market I just post my truck and answer the phone. In that case, I generally don't book anything until after noon. If it is a slower market, I'll have to make calls and am willing to grab an early load especially if it is lighter weight.

 

My thoughts on the dirty business of a backhaul: it is what it is. Any time you're less flexible, you give up potential. Need to be somewhere and by specific time? Turn the key and go. Time = money. Sometimes you can scoop something up along the way. Post your truck in a city 2-3 hrs down the road before you go. If you're feeling guilty about pulling a TQL trick on the loadboard, put an ETA in the comments. Fact is, most brokers know that, barring some miracle, the soonest they're going to get a truck anywhere is 2-3 hrs. You're already assuring that, plus you're in motion already with a firmer ETA and an already running truck and ready equipment. On the rare occasion someone balks when I tell them I'm not actually there, I can turn that into a positive thing just like that. If it's a longer trip, re-post as you make progress and change the city. I can think of several times I've done that successfully. Literally taken a call and had to pull off on a ramp shoulder to close the deal and return paperwork, then do a quick trip plan and head toward the new shipper.

Don't dwell on exact numbers to start with. It's a high/low game. First thing is understand the industry behind the crap you're putting on your truck. Who makes it? Who buys it? What's their business cycle? Ultimately you can gain some insight to when and where they will have peak demand, then be there to exploit that. In the reefer business, an example is the run up to a holiday. The week before any major holiday or sporting event (Super Bowl Sunday for example). Grocery chains are going to load up on certain things. Do you have any idea how many tons of chicken wings move the week before the Super Bowl? The day before? A $1,000 line haul turns into $2,500 spot overnight just because you knew where to look.

The load boards have a lot of very imprecise data on this. But enough for you to get the gist of high or low. On ITS I always glance at the decision tools before jumping in there with a post. Pintac is good for a general idea of what is moving where. More important is above the chart. Statistics. Count of loads posted, trucks posted, and hot prospects (people searching a market but not posted). If the load count is substantially higher than the other two, you have more leverage and you're phone will probably start ringing right away if you haven't had ITS disable hot prospects on your account (make your searches "hidden").

Load densities are less precise, but still good to know. The problem is that it's by state. That's fine in a medium state, but highly inaccurate in places like Texas where a load could be 12 hours away, or in the NE where a load in MD could find a truck in 5 surrounding states. Numbers are also skewed by daily posts and multiple brokers listing the same load. Regardless, more trucks delivering than loads available means you're market is weak. Opposite that, fewer deliveries to loads available could be a hot market for you.

These values change often, so you can't just work off of assumptions. You have to at least review these charts daily if you don't already have some fairly deep industry knowledge. There are definitely shifts from week to week, sometimes even daily and during the day.

Also a good idea to put the sports page down once in a while and read some business news. Read about the shippers and consumers of the products you haul. You might discover an opportunity for a product you haven't been hauling. Look for shortage or surplus opportunities. Might be good to know construction futures if you haul lumber or other building materials. If you're hauling batteries to a hybrid car factory, maybe low gas prices might indicate a weaker market for those moves.

End of the day, the more information you know, the better off you are when you start negotiating. The great part is: look around you at the truck stop counter and you can see it won't take much knowledge to be way ahead of average.

 

I have one broker i've made contact with over the years that does it right. Gives me the same rates year round. I charge the same year round and get the work when others aren't. This would be moderate rates, considered fair by both of us. The rest of them play the game. Nothing wrong with that I enjoy it really. All of them do it. So there is a saying me and a few of my friends have, get everything you can because there are no friends in this business. They will cheap you out when it's good and forget you 2 minutes after you do a favor. It's nothing personal anyways and I treat them in.much the same manner. Imo this is the best way to get top dollar. Brokers are a dime a dozen. You can run for average rates all the time or you can play the wild swings taking full advantage of the market. I prefer the latter. It's inconsistent and at times aggravating but the money is so much better.

 

I think get loaded and DAT are the same. I use DAT but ITS is my favorite. If you haven't turned the feature off brokers from ITS can see when you've clicked on their load and in a hot market watch that like a hawk calling carriers who do, sometimes within seconds. These are the ones where you can score really well with a lot of times. Use this to your advantage. I will sometimes click on loads I like without the truck being posted just to see what happens. You'd be surprised sometimes. One key thing, before you click on it know exactly what you need to haul it. The same as if you are calling on anything. Or at the very least be able to quote quickly on the spot. Nothing says rookie or amateur quicker than "uh, uh, uh, uh" " I dunno...." they're thinking wth do you mean you don't know you waste of time.?..

 

I never say "i'M looking for a backhaul" but when someone asks or mentions I don't get all bent out of shape and waste my breath pontificating on how it's an evil word and my truck costs the same to roll forward as it does backwards lol.

 

Send a dozen or 2 dozen emails to CHR you can get a rough idea. Those will be the "book it now and boogie on down the road" rates anyways. Really there are no loadboards that give good accurate data on this. The input will always be suspect. You think the likes of CHR and especially a spammed like TQL have an interest in skewing that to train you into thinking their way, of course they do.

You always quote high, don't be shy, and get turned down a lot. If the phone is blowing up stick to your guns because I guarantee someone will pay $3, $4, or $5 a mile on good miles. It ought to be really easy with a step, more challenging with a van but still doable. That is how you get top dollar and really learn how far you can push in a given market.

And you will know the typical "book it now" rates too. Like Ruthless says try to stick with and learn a few select areas really well. It is not possible to.learn the trends of lanes in all 48 states everywhere. The most successful companies out here are regional. Long haul trucking is an old school thing. Not worth your trouble to run for less money. The best revenue is 500 miles a day or less because all the miles think robots want to drive big miles so the shorthaul is less,apiealing.

The only time I take a longer haul 800 to 1,000 miles is in the rare instances where someone will pay $3.50 a mile. Yes they will pay a solo that when they have to and no it doesnt happen everyday. Anyone who says that is counter talk because they've never seen it needs to brush up on their weak negotiate/listening skills. Again, with a step it should be more common I would think. I would clean house with an open deck if i knew anything about the freight and Lanes i'M sure of it. You have the right trailer imo. I only do van because it is what I have always done and all I know really well.

 

Thanks everyone that has responded to my frustrations, I sincerely appreciate it, and I will put your suggestions/advice in to action. I am somewhat of a rookie at this open deck side of the industry, even though I have pulled this step since early Nov, and I did pull a flat for TMC back in 2011 for 2 months. I want to run my step like I was run pulling that flat, busy M-F and home on the weekends. Only difference now is, I am the dispatcher but, I am confident that it can be done, I just have to learn where to get the freight, specifically. I would love to haul Military Equipment, any equipment in general, steel coils or beams, or sheets. I need to focus on these items and find where the shippers are, or some brokers that specialize in these markets. I have been so busy just trying to keep moving that I haven't made any time to study this. Which means, I am just spinning my wheels and chasing the dollar, which is stupid. Again, I thank you and wish all of you the best..