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  1. #111
    20 Year Truckload Veteran jlkklj777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raafi View Post
    jlk

    i understand what "most" drivers would do, but i am really asking those who say "i drive and log legal all of the time"

    because legally, once you left that sleeper and went in to deal with the customer, you are ON DUTY, and when you get back into the sleeper, you must restart your 10hr clock, otherwise you are lying on your logs

    Well technically if you spend LESS than 15 minutes to check in with the customer and dock your trailer there is no need to change your duty status.

    If you really want to split hairs about the timing then anything over 7.5 minutes (but less than 15 minutes) spent on duty not driving can be flagged from the drive line but be aware that this time will be deducted from your drive time which artificially increases your average speed.

    Most of the places I go to will even come out to my truck and knock on the door. I hand them my paperwork while still in my underoos. Time elapsed? 30 seconds. If I am familiar with the customer and have a roll up door on my trailer I will dock the trailer when I get there during the night. This way I do not have to do it in the morning and I do not have to worry about other drivers "jumping line." First come first serve.

  2. #112
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    jlk

    you made me laugh

    in your undies? but in truth, once you came up front, you were no longer in the sleeper

  3. #113
    Light Load Member valczer's Avatar
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    Bingo Raafi

  4. #114
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    so bottom line, there is no such thing and running truly legal without fudging, because if you did, you spend all of your 14hrs doing everything else but driving

    so now we have that straight, we can stop having people say "i never cheat on my logs" because it aint true

    so the real question is HOW MUCH do you cheat? and that is where the issue truly lies

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  6. #115
    Light Load Member hotrod628's Avatar
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    I have a slightly different way of doing mine than jlkk said. The first company that I worked for and that trained me made me master logbooking or my joke book before I got my first driving lesson. So in reality I have been doing this longer than I have driven a truck. But its all more less the same cheat here or there. First of all most trucks speedometer / odometer are usually off up to 5% one way or other. If in your favor use it if not and helps with backing up logs use a map program. This will tell you actual miles you should be running on a given run. Take state speed limits on roads you will be driving subtract about 5MPH and divide by the miles or multiple your daily avg speed x 11 hours and look for a stop around that many miles up the road. If you know roads you are running of the next exit will tell you where you can legally park near the miles for the day. For example I can run Albuquerque NM to LA CA. Always seems to take me about 14 hours. Course my truck was a little gutless so Pulls hills slow. But using my method I can log Barstow in 11 and 2 more into LA. Net savings of 1 hr. Total distance 696. 540 miles # 70 MPH and 156 # 50 MPH. I also use a PC Log program this saves me from rewriting my logs. I also have found out since going to Electronic logging that so far in 2 years only 1 cop has asked me to actually print out my logs. This is a lot faster to change logs than rewriting them 2 or 3 times a day so you can get your full 11 driving in.
    Even if you have to turn in a company only log sheet using electronic logging tells you if you have any violations before the occur. You can even set up the software to company specs so that if you are "speeding", over hours or other common infractions it will show up and tell you to correct it. Saves on some of the nasty mail every month. Also you can do this for the week and make your company their logs. I recommend doing this after backing up hours and getting your reset in.
    Warning some companies check fuel times VS log. Most just notice 15 + min on duty. This doesn't neccessarily need to be where you fueled just that you were on duty. HINT HINT If you fueled # 315-330 in INdianapolis. But after backing log up You would be in Dayton OH at 315-330 Then log fuel in Dayton. A DOT cop would luv to see that you fueled in Indy @315 - 330 and then shut down in columbus a couple of hours later.
    GUESS Point here IF YOU GONNA CHEAT THEN LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT. If you cant cheat right then don't do it. DOT cops are masters at reading your log book. And if it's got mistakes they will find them and that will cost you hard earned money in fines not to mention OOS and everything else.
    I like electronic logging since so far most DOT cops that have inspected me have left my log alone. I still am showing it as being legal whenever I am running but the saving me headaches bit is worth it. My last company also only monitored fuel stops on day not even close times. Find out what your company rules are. This is the best way of knowing what you can and can't do. I also know that most of you with a little practice and might require a blank bill of lading if time and date stamped. But you should be able to log a reset every week and not have to take it. My last company had signs on their trailers. 3000+ miles per week. And they meant it. Even with time off at home a company driver had to avg 2800+/ week or they would fire them. A bad week for me was 3200 and most weeks i was around 4000 paid miles. I know I know you cant log 4000. Sure you can depends on where and how you get your resets in. Thats the key. You have to be able to show that you got your reset in. And very seldom did I ever drop a trip.
    Hope this helps someone. I know I ramble a bit but I have never been known as a good story writer. But then again I find something that works that is fairly simple and I use it. Unfortunatelly The truckers report dont have prefilled story boards

  7. #116
    Light Load Member sidewinder429's Avatar
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    Are you for real? That may be all fine and dandy but once they pull the ECM your toast!

  8. #117
    "Log it Legal" LogsRus's Avatar
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    Im not going to do my normal "run legal" speech as most of you know how I feel about logging illegal

    I will say you can run legal, log line 4 when working and still make a good paycheck! I have drivers that do it and are happy as can be!

    It's all in understanding how to log legal & the 11,14,70 & split breaking regulations and using which one applies to your situation!

    But that's all I am going to say!

    The DOT Officer that audits our company and you on the road says everything you do that involves work (not driving) will take you a minimum of 15 minutes of line 4 time. If they can prove it took you longer they will expect the longer time so be very carefull if you just log 15 minutes.

    If you use a "fuel card" like Com-data etc the time is being recorded and DOT can request that information from the Comdata office it self if the company says they don't have it.

    So make sure all documents match your logs. When DOT comes into the company to do a DOT audit they match everything to do with that trip: tolls, scales (cat scales have the times on the receipt), bills etc and they check dispatch records such as time dispatched pickup etc.
    So make sure it all matches: If it comes to an accident trust me they will request all documentation for sure including qualcom records.

    Ok love you all and be carefull out there with whatever you decide

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  10. #118
    Road Train Member Lilbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogsRus View Post
    Im not going to do my normal "run legal" speech as most of you know how I feel about logging illegal

    I will say you can run legal, log line 4 when working and still make a good paycheck! I have drivers that do it and are happy as can be!

    It's all in understanding how to log legal & the 11,14,70 & split breaking regulations and using which one applies to your situation!

    But that's all I am going to say!

    The DOT Officer that audits our company and you on the road says everything you do that involves work (not driving) will take you a minimum of 15 minutes of line 4 time. If they can prove it took you longer they will expect the longer time so be very carefull if you just log 15 minutes.

    If you use a "fuel card" like Com-data etc the time is being recorded and DOT can request that information from the Comdata office it self if the company says they don't have it.

    So make sure all documents match your logs. When DOT comes into the company to do a DOT audit they match everything to do with that trip: tolls, scales (cat scales have the times on the receipt), bills etc and they check dispatch records such as time dispatched pickup etc.
    So make sure it all matches: If it comes to an accident trust me they will request all documentation for sure including qualcom records.

    Ok love you all and be carefull out there with whatever you decide
    You got that right, lady. I know, cause my hubby drives for Celadon, and he logs legal. The only thing that affects what his paychecks look like is what's available for loads and his home time. He does just fine with logging legal. It's not impossible.

  11. #119
    20 Year Truckload Veteran jlkklj777's Avatar
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    It is getting harder

    It is getting harder to cheat and get away with it now a days. Whether it be dropping trips, logging only paid miles, logging average speed as opposed to actual time elapsed, destroying toll receipts that contradict your record, using ghost drivers, or dropping trips. There are so many ways of getting tripped up. Too much surveilance overall. Ez-Pass records, Pre-Pass records, Fuel receipts, Time stamps on bills, Cell phone records, Gps locators built into the satellite communications on board most trucks, scale receipts, toll receipts, security guard sign in and sign out records at customers and terminals, as well as the potential of being randomly checked by DOT or pulled over by the police in route. You even have to worry about a motorist calling in a complaint about your driving with a description of you, your truck, the location, and the time of the supposed "incident" which prompted them to call the cops or the companies safety department to complain.

    Add in the possibility of being involved in an accident (not your fault of course), your log not being current, or even worse, showing you are past your hours of service and you may not only lose your job but possibly your freedom as well.

    The whole purpose of this thread was to expose these tricks. The company safety guys know them. The cops know them. The DOT know them. The prosecuting attorneys know them. PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR LIVELIHOOD. RUN LEGAL AND AS SAFELY AS YOU CAN. NOT JUST TO PROTECT OTHER MOTORISTS BUT TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND CONTINUE PROVIDING FOR YOUR FAMILIES WELFARE.

    You may get away with cheating for years. Then again you may get caught and lose everything you worked so hard for. Is it really worth it in the end???

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  13. #120
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    Illegal work and illegal workers share something in common

    It's been interesting to read this thread all the way through. I've worked in food industry for awhile and now looking to transition into driving truck. I've seen one big similarity between the plight of the truck driver and the plight of the illegal immigrant worker and it is this:

    The company you work for benefits from your actions, and when you fudge your logbooks they then have leverage over you, yes? Anytime they have an issue, they can "discover" your logbook violation, and discipline or fire you.

    If an accident happens on a run, or if there is some other liability issue, you are the shear-pin that insulates the company from liability. They can disavow all knowledge of wrongdoing... that is, if you are fudging the logbook and blowing the regs...

    Same system with immigration.... there could be a law-enforcement focus on the employers who violate, but after all... they are the tax paying citizens, right? so, instead, they focus on the immigrants.... criminalize the act of these immigrants trying to provide for their families back home (whom they rarely see) so that the "illegal" labor pool is at the mercy of the employer.

    so, in both of these instances, the "illegal" act benefits the employers, and at the same time, gives them leverage should they need it.

    I guess it's up to each of us to weigh our options and go into it eyes wide open....

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