Sudden SWR spike

Discussion in 'CB Radio Forum' started by GGALLIN1776, May 6, 2023.

  1. GGALLIN1776

    GGALLIN1776 Bobtail Member

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    Ah ok, that explains the confusion. If I can't figure out a way to hammer in a ground rod & run up a ground wire to the second floor unnoticed, any ideas on a good alternative grounding method?
     
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  3. Ridgeline

    Ridgeline Road Train Member

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    A simple verticle dipole for 11 meters is really easy to make and could be used against the house from the second floor.

    There are maybe three dozen videos and a few hundred web pages on how to build one.
     
  4. Night Stalker10

    Night Stalker10 Road Train Member

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    No ground wire needed with these antennas. I believe these are basically a no ground plane antenna design, where the coax length is critical in order for the antenna to perform properly.
     
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  5. Night Stalker10

    Night Stalker10 Road Train Member

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    A simple dipole antenna is to buy this dual antenna mount from MFJ. If you don't want to build one. Of course you will need a balcony to hold a piece of pipe to mount it to.


    MFJ 80-6 Meter Mini-Dipole Mount - MFJ-347

    Then buy 2 fire stick CB antennas, or better yet, 2 antennas with tunable tips.
     
  6. GGALLIN1776

    GGALLIN1776 Bobtail Member

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    Sorry for the late update(took a break from electronics for a bit), the b100 antenna fixed the swr issue so thanks for that. Ended up with the Workman version as the Saturn variant pretty much disappeared, the remaining units jumped to over $100.

    Odd thing is that if I don't have the rf, tx & mic power maxed out, swr stays around 2.5 on channel 1, 5 on 40. At max levels, about 1.3 on 1, hovers closer to 2 on 40.

    Modulation is 60% as soon as I key up & then immediately drops close to 0 even when talking loudly, regardless of level on the red devil mic itself. If the R.B. is on, there will be a brief 100%. Standard mic registers no modulation.

    The other oddity being power fluctuation between antennas. With the 102" whip, it was kicking out between 250-300w, the others I tried all varied. The B100, 5 watts.

    I've heard of some radios (including this one) with auto power limiting depending on what's hooked up, don't understand why it would drop that much considering the antenna is rated for 500 watts & I'm running 18' of lmr400. I did see a slight uptick in power when putting a different meter inline. If I could eliminate the self adjusting output, that would be ideal, everything attached can handle the throughput so I'm not worried about cooking an antenna, etc.

    I'd drop the inline meter altogether but the built in unit is too sensitive & always pegs out as soon as I key up. It's only accurate in judging signal distance, someone can be burning up the airwaves from 1k miles away but the needle stays put, local signals that aren't the best (within say 1-2 miles) will register.
     
  7. Night Stalker10

    Night Stalker10 Road Train Member

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    No problem on the late update. I was just wondering what mobile cb radio are you using for your base station? I didn't think about the Saturn antenna being obsolete. The bad news is since it sounds like your external swr meter is showing a change in swr readings depending on radio settings or using a different antenna, it sounds like your antenna system has common mode current problems. The cure for that usually is a 1:1 balun, whether you buy one, or make one. The simplest balun is to make about 6 - 8 turns of coax, about 5 - 6 inches in diameter at the base of the antenna. You can use electrical tape or plastic wire ties to hold the rolled up coax (the balun) together. The other negative thing about this coiled balun is that you are only using 18 ft of coax, so it may make the coax too short to reach your radio. The link below shows you some other types of baluns available.

    Coax Feed Line Common Mode Chokes (1:1) - Palomar Engineers®

    The only thing is, I'm not sure how a balun will react to a non ground plane antenna. The only way to know is to try it, it's ether going to be better swr wise, or worse. If your radio has an swr protection capability, then that's why the radio is cutting the RF power way back, due to high swr in the antenna system. Ridgeline mentioned a simple wire dipole antenna. That would be ideal, but the dipole will be 17 feet high or more, so you would need a tree close by or some other way of attaching the top wire to something tall. Of course I would still recommend using a 1:1 balun with a dipole antenna.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2024
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  8. GGALLIN1776

    GGALLIN1776 Bobtail Member

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    The offender is a Galaxy DX55HP backed by a 15amp power supply (limited with inline mini fuse).
    Pretty sure the Saturn & Workman come from or came from the same factory, there's another brand with the same model designation & specs so it's a possibility.

    Going through that page & reading about the various chokes, one of the reasons for using the "clamp on" style made me remember an exact scenario listed occuring.

    When I key up, the stereo two rooms over will suddenly let out a loud hum whether it's on or off, as long as it's plugged into the wall. There's some very questionable/unsafe wiring in this apartment building so kinda wondering why just that one gets lit up. Haven't heard any complaints from neighbors yet about interruptions to their electronics, but if it's just the same loud bark of a hum rather than my voice, they likely wouldn't guess I was the cause....don't really want to ask them because they might start "hearing things" suddenly or if say something fails on its own, then it'll be my radio rather than the reality.

    I should have a few of those chokes laying around, I've pulled a bunch from things like computer power supplies & televisions not knowing what they were for, only that they could come in handy. I'll have to step down wire size to use any of them in a loop, the longest stretch of coax I have tucked away if 15-20' so that'll still be really close to the radio.

    Anything in a tree is going to be difficult, after the neighboring tenant property cut down all of the trees, the nearest one is about 100 yards away on someone else's property.

    I think the eaves of my windows are about 17-20' up, maybe something like a spring loaded curtain/shower rod could serve as a hanger, just gotta make sure wind doesn't send it into the glass, etc.

    The topography in my location isn't exactly ideal for radio, I'm right in the bowl of a valley with peaks in all directions....even up on a ladder, best line of sight without a major obstruction is 1/8th of a mile.

    That makes for wind whipping around from all directions, when the various antennas were mounted on my window a/c unit (workman is clamped to a handtruck indoors until I get an outdoor mount figured out that won't cause water leaks), they were slapping anything in reach. Contrast that to when the whip was mounted on my truck, when parked, it just stayed still.
     
  9. Night Stalker10

    Night Stalker10 Road Train Member

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    Okay, so with a 50 watt or more radio, you will need a very good antenna system to handle the power. Unfortunately living in an apartment makes this more difficult. The good news is that it can be done. Many years ago when I lived in an apartment in Tennessee, I had an old 200 watt Tempo One tube radio. The answer for me was Radio Shack. I went to my local store and bought around 60 feet of 22 gauge wire that was black in color. Since it was Tennessee there were lots of pine trees available to hook up my almost invisible end fed antenna. I hooked the end of that antenna to an MFJ manual matchbox (commonly known as an antenna tuner), and it did a great job. For you there are about four possibilities that may work.

    1. Use an End-Fed Antenna as mentioned above. Too bad they cut down the trees.

    2. You can buy a vertical antenna like the Proton99. It's 18 feet tall, and you would have to put it in the ground at night so no one would see it, and then you would have to remove it when your done with your radio. Kind of a pain, but it would work. Some home owners that live in an HOA, use a fold over mount on their vertical antennas which makes it easier since they don't have to remove the antenna.

    PROTON99 - ProComm 18 Foot Base Station CB or 10 Meter Antenna

    3. You could use this MFJ-1644 whip antenna tuner. It just sits on the desk in your radio room. This whip antenna tuner has been around for many years, and it's designed with HOA and apartment dwellers in mind. Years ago there was a review in a ham magazine where they showed this product in a guys home, and he had made contacts with it all across the US using a 100 watt radio. Of course I realize this isn't on the cb 11 meter band, but I thought it was still impressive. I'm sorry I didn't think of it sooner, it may have been a better option than the B-100 antenna.

    MFJ-1644,WHIP TUNER/ART. GROUND/CURRENT METER, 10-80M, 150W

    4. A simple dipole hf antenna as was mentioned earlier.

    5. Okay, I know I said four antenna possibilities, but their is one more option. You can take this one with a grain of salt. You'll need a long ladder, and when the land lords not around, hook up your coax to the gutters on the apartment building. Yes an antenna tuner will be needed. Years ago there was a gentleman who did this, and every time he would talk to someone, he would say hey did I tell you I worked Italy with my gutters as an antenna? He was l proud of it, and I guess rightfully so. LOL.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2024
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  10. De_Wildfire

    De_Wildfire Bobtail Member

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    From running a base station with a SWR spike on higher power, the culprit was water getting into the coax which was tested and verified. On five watts, it's ok but I got the SWR spikes off the charts on higher power. I replaced the coax and the SWR's were 1.1 with a kilowatt.
     
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  11. GGALLIN1776

    GGALLIN1776 Bobtail Member

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    Might have to get one of those tuners, I saw a few for pretty cheap when looking for SWR meters. Usually they popped up in suggestions on a given listing.

    I was just about to jump up & say "Why didn't I think of that!" in regards to the gutter antenna.....but as the excitement of the covert awesomeness hit, I remembered that the gutters are missing on my building

    Only a single building in the complex has the remnants of a gutter left, sagging in the middle, the end touching the ground like the structural version of a car wreck. Could explain why so much water ends up in the walls.

    I'd attempt a chimney mount if everything wasn't electric here, so nothing in the way of roof camo.

    In regards to the proton99, I've been trying to come up with an "excuse" to drop on the landlord why I need a certain antenna at that height outside. I was going to claim some satellite tv/ internet alternative since they allow direct tv dishes to be jammed in the ground & bolted to the eaves.

    Something like "oh it's a roku antenna!" or "It's a competitor to starlink, acme brand roadrunner net".

    But I can't think up anything with enough jargon to prevent him from bothering to investigate. If I can devise some word salad that will get him to sign off on me running one up, golden. Once I get that, as long as the installation is neat not much can be said.

    I'd be honest & say it's for a radio but every landlord I've had who was alive in the 80s can only think of that one guy in the neighborhood who would blast over the television nightly with his amp screaming through the TV speaker.

    There was a radar looking array on the lawn of a neighboring building but I'm not sure if it was stolen or the owner was forced to remove it.
    I was in the process of trying to find out whose it was to inquire about how they got away with that massive thing (it was roughly 6'W x 3'H in the shape of a curved halfpipe) but nobody seemed to know who it belonged to.

    Basically if I got approval for a mast, a cemented pole tall enough to reach the height of my window would be needed, the sole purpose to avoid vandalism.

    That gutter one though, man I wish it was an option.
     
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