A lawsuit brought against New Prime, Inc (“Prime”) has found its way all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision could have an enormous impact on forced arbitration agreements, driver classification, and driver pay.
In 2013, Dominic Oliveira was a driver for Prime. He had come through their CDL training program and went on to their paid training program at $0.14 cents per mile. When he completed training, he says he was pressured into their O-O program as an independent contractor. During this time, Oliveira alleges that Prime had total control of his schedule and home time, and even tracked his truck using a GPS.
When he found he couldn’t make money as an independent contractor, he quit and was rehired as company driver – a full employee. Since Oliveira claims that he duties as an independent contractor were almost identical to his duties as an employee, he sued Prime for back wages from his time as an independent contractor.
But this isn’t actually the issue being argued at the Supreme Court. Because when Oliveira sued Prime, the carrier tried to force him into arbitration – an out-of-court resolution of the case – using the employment contract he signed.
Companies often use forced arbitration agreements to prevent employees from filing costly lawsuits against them. And most often, they’re incredibly effective at doing so. But this time, the court found that the Federal Arbitration Act (FAA) doesn’t allow arbitration in the case of “contracts of employment of seamen, railroad employees, or any other class of workers engaged in foreign or interstate commerce.”
In the past, “contracts of employment” has been interpreted to mean contracts for employees. But the lower court decision interpreted that phrase to mean any contract of employment – including those used for independent contractors.
If the Supreme Court sides with the lower court’s interpretation, that would mean that all interstate truckers would be exempt from forced arbitration agreements.
Unsurprisingly, megacarriers seem a bit panicked. The American Trucking Association (ATA) has filed a “friend of the court” brief asking the Supreme Court to rule in favor of Prime. According to their letter, doing otherwise would “would effectively nullify the advantages of arbitration in misclassification disputes.” Which could allow an untold number of drivers to sue carriers for back-wages, benefits, and other protections that employees enjoy which independent contractors do not.
Some pro-driver advocates however argue that since Prime had substantial control over Oliveira’s work schedule while he was an independent contractor, he was a de facto employee. This is the same argument that’s been used successfully in past against port trucking companies who allegedly misclassify their drivers to avoid paying living wages and benefits.
Some industry analysts are claiming that if O-Os and other independent contractor truckers are indeed found to be exempt from the FAA, the hiring market could become much more competitive and driver pay could spike significantly. But it could also greatly increase the already significant capacity crunch, raising the cost of goods for consumers.
Source: supreme court, cnbc, ttnews, scotusblog, law360, freightwaves, supreme court
Hopefully the driver wins this case. Maybe it will finally force these companies to put a stop to the fraud known as “lease purchase”.
Also 10-99 contract employment, in which drivers are paid employee wages under contractor classification, even when they do not “own” (or more commonly, lease) the truck that they drive.
lease purchase is the buy here pay here option to truck ownership. weekly payments and/or no option to take the truck elsewhere should clue you in.
At the very least, the companies should be forced to disclose the important critical numbers just like when you buy an automobile.
Numbers like:
1) The percentage of lease purchases that actually complete successfully in the past three years
2) The average cash penalty paid by the driver for not completing their lease purchase.
I’d guess the numbers to be something like 5-10% for the first and $5-7K for the second.
a balloon payment…rarely does a driver get the equity
in any lease buy agreement…it is a scam. The company controls everything,including the driver. That makes the driver an employee.
At prime a lease driver can take the truck where ever they want.
I agree with you, however our case against CR England resulted in a fairly large financial hit on them but they still seem to be doing some of the same garbage as before. What will it take to change that kind of BS?
It will take penalties that are substantially greater than the original value stolen. As long as stealing costs only a small fraction of what was stolen (and that only when you get caught), the incentive favors continuing to steal.
Start throwing corporate executives and influential stockholders into prison, and liquidating their assets to make reparations, and then you’ll finally start to see some incentive to stop stealing.
jail time..but cr seems untouchable..don’t they?
CR does seem untouchable – perhaps because a family member sits on the federal court for the district that they operate from…
The entity that is lease purchase is not a fraud. The implementation of the program usually is, as many large carriers have found out. There are some goid ones out there. Drivers interested in the program should take the unsigned contract to an attorney and have it proofed. Then if the company refuses to sign the amended contract, you know it’s a scam. Then they’ve just opened themselves up to legal action.
None of the large carriers who use leases this way, will consider an amended contract. They will claim that the expense of having their lawyers review amendments is prohibitive, and move on to the next driver. You wind up with the bill from your attorney and you still have no job. Some carriers won’t even let you take a copy of an unsigned contract out of the leasing office.
Worse, since most victims come to the situation already broke and desperate, they have little choice by the time that the contract is offered. And since they have typically been kept broke during training, and have been removed to unfamiliar surroundings far from whatever support systems they might have had, their options are usually reduced to immediate starvation and homelessness for themselves, and then a walk of up to several thousand miles, to get to whatever help they might be able to turn to – or signing whatever contract they are given. I suspect that there may be legal grounds to claim coercion or duress, to invalidate the contracts, but I’ve never seen anyone come out of one with enough resources left to press the issue in court.
Warner least purchase program is no different than prime the only difference is they also control how much you on per mile. Warren transport does not controlle you through their lease purchase program. They’re policy States you the driver are the backbone of the company the staff in the building that Give you loads are your employees and must treat you as their boss. So I do agree with you I hope that driver wins. After all if he wins that forces corporations like Werner Enterprises to cease and desist with their highly communistic Behavior of controlling every aspect including your tax collection.
absolutely
I agree 100% with you I hope he wins…good luck driver!
You mean fleece purchace?
Whatever way the case swings that driver will be lucky to see 10% of the settlement after 5 years of lawyers fees. He definitely can scratch being a truck driver off of his list. No company in their right mind would touch him. So he failed as a driver and needs someone else to blame.
You are a sucker
In what way did he fail as a driver? Also, generally with a lawsuit of this nature the lawyers fees are added in addition to the amount of unpaid wages
His failure was by design. That’s the way lease purchase works. You either work for very little money for a long time or you default on the lease.
Actually, attorney fees would be closer to 40-45% , than the 90% you claim. Second, I missed the part where “he failed as a driver”. And I dont believe the Supreme Court takes cases based on a persons failures. I do believe the “legality” of actions is at question.
Bruce is right, it’s always the drivers fault.
This must be a burner account for Prime.
Actually, any company would take him if his record is clean. JB Hunt, Swift/Knight, etc won’t care that he is suing Prime.
What this driver has done is brought to light the issue of arbitration language is an employment contract and whether or not it applies to owner operators.
I don’t think the ATA is wrong. We have so many frivolous lawsuits and ridiculous judgment amounts that limiting the venue to arbitration is not being unjust. What company can afford to hire attorneys and go to court daily/weekly/monthly or yearly? They will go broke fast.
Good. If that many of your employees are that unhappy with an employer that the sheer volume of lawsuits is enough to bury the employer, then they deserve to go broke.
How angry do you have to make people, before you consider the possibility that you might be doing something wrong? How many people do you have to make that angry, before you consider the possibility that the problem is you, and not them?
The negotiated settlement will result in drivers being compensated an insignificant fraction of the wages that they were ripped off, years later – although there will likely be enough, in aggregate, to make the law firm obscenely wealthy.
And being ripped off doesn’t make the driver a failure; it makes him a victim. Suing is exactly what recourse is available to him, under the law, and he is likely to get the lions share of the victim portion of any class settlement, as the principal plaintiff. There is a fair chance that his “failure” as a driver will net him enough money as a “successful” plaintiff, that he can sip drinks with hot chicks in Tahiti, for the rest of his life, if he wants. Or pay cash for a truck and be a real owner-operator. Or buy a bunch of trucks, and become a real carrier, and get on the winning side of this whole game… Personally, I’d be in Tahiti, giving the entire industry and my naysayers, the finger… but that’s just me… 😛
I totally agree with and appreciate Mr Yowler!
Why has he failed,your attitude is why we are all failing as a group.he felt he has a case so he is fighting back,I wish him well.
Exactly! Also be aware of the covert company/industry advocates input all across various social media platforms. Example, Bruce comment reads like a paid company insider whose job is to voice industry perspectives in drivers conversations that might lead to a galvanization Truck drivers action and advocacy. If I am wrong Bruce, check your stance by asking yourself, are you for CDL Professional Drivers improvements, pay rates, load-rates, honesty in driver recruiting etc, etc?
How would any company know unless they just happen to know who he is? Your ignorance is astounding.
Dac report
that “failed as a driver” statement is way off. He figured he was being ripped off…rightly so. After the fact tho.
Wish these drivers would do the numbers and figure the costs before
hand. irp/ifta,plates.fuel,maintenance,insurance/workmen’s comp,etc.
the companies wo’t tell them, as this is just a soaking they are willing to give them.
Fraud
That happened to me win I was working for Jim Palmer in Missoula, Montana. Witch is own by the Wilson in under prime inc. They have the same contract as prime. I lost over 8,000$ win I turned my truck in.
I hope he wins this also , so that me and 16,000 drivers that were o’o at Swift Transportation can finally get our back wages and benefits from these guys doing similar acts. This case has got our case on hold . Swift has repeatedly derailed our suit trying to push individual arbitration. This and his case can very well change the way these companies work. Good luck.
When I started reading this I was wondering when I would see the ATA’s name in here. Anytime the ATA can help screw drivers the ATA is there to help.
It’s the anti trucking assoc ,only for big companies, if u oo u screwed
You got that right the ata is always with the company and government not the drivers
Because they get paid by the mega carriers to mule the money to the government bureaucrats.
Where is OOIDA in this? There needs to be involvement from some organization not biased with the ATA or large carriers.
I disagree with you Bruce. Many companies paint a picture of making a lot of money, and being your own boss. More often than not, that, simply isn’t the case. A lot of drivers who participate in these “ lease purchases programs” end up failing. Not all of these programs are designed for failure, but a lot of them are. I know many good safe drivers who have lost a lot after entering one of these programs. Think about it. If the company dispatch controls your loads, it’s up to them how much money you can make. Not up to you. Company dispatch can give you great runs for a while. But what happens when you have a disagreement or upset the people controlling your loads? What happens is, they also have the power to make you go broke! So labeling him a failure in my opinion is a bit harsh.
Damn straight !
The dispatcher will make or break you.
If you dont get to choose your load and set your own schedule, then you are just an employee.
I did the Prime thing also in 2013. The cheaper, heavy loads were what I mostly was dispatched on, while the loads that paid the most were dispatched to company drivers.
No kidding. I did Prime in 2005, if memory serves me right. I got all the junk crap runs they could think of just because I wanted to run my truck the way I wanted to run it. Because I did not want to run it their way they punished me. They ended up making it to where I owed the IRS $5,000, and nearly lost my house to property and school taxes. As they lied to the IRS on how much money I made. While it was my fault for sticking it out long enough to be in that bad a situation, Prime had no right to do what they did. So to me kudos to kid, doing what he’s doing in the Supreme Court, I wish I had the balls to stand up to them jerks. It’s about time someone had big enough set of balls, and the courage to stand up to Mega corporations. They need to go down as does ATA.
What happens as a business (owner) if you upset your customer base, aka, the people controlling your loads?
Same things. Somewhere in the recent past, truck drivers have confused “professionalism” with “kissing butt”.
If you can’t please your customers (the people controlling your loads), you will fail as a business.
Its not calculus. If you fail at being a L/O, you signed a bad contract with a bad company OR you don’t understand the sacrifice that comes with running your own business. People think you have all of this freedom, being “your own boss”, but in reality, you end up with 1000’s of bosses that you have to please. At least as a L/O you still only have to please the folks that dispatch your loads.
Yes but if you dont have a choiceof who you can pick up from then. And sense they are the ones you are leasing aka getting a loan from its a conflict.
How would you like to borrow money from a mcdonalds where you work. They then can cut your hours to the point where you can never pay the loan back and then defualt it thus mak8ng you pay more.
Are you saying that is ethical? That should be allowed? Sounds kind of what ex-slave owners ended up doing crop sharing and maritime captains did to there sailors.
Automated trucks don’t sue. Be careful what you ask for.
That is why the big push from both industry and government for automated trucks. No more need for logs, no idling, no equipment downtime, no need for driver comfort devices or bunks or inward-facing cameras… No need to pay a driver or offer benefits or workman’s compensation insurance…
Money is all on the side of automating employees away, in as many areas as possible – and drivers are a bigger problem than most employees. McDonald’s workers don’t have logbooks, and their bosses don’t have to send someone to recover a $100,000 spatula, after the burger-flipper gets fired or quits.
But it really doesn’t matter what we wish for… Money is heavily on the side of automating our jobs away, no matter what we might wish. They *will* get us out of the trucks, eventually, and as fast as they can, no matter what we might wish for.
automation will not do everything who will watch the reefer when the orange lights comes on and stop too see what’s wrong and push those button and who will tighten those chains on the flatbed when they come loose it will be the driver they have too put in the truck in case some thing goes wrong too take over when some thing goes wrong computers screw up just like people look at your home computer when it goes on the blink
Most likely, automated freight vehicles will be aerial drones, not ground transportation. If it must be ground-based, trains or trucks on special-purpose roadways or tunnels are likely.
Aerial transport will relax vehicle and container size and weight constraints, allowing better insulation on refrigerated units, and more fuel storage (if that is even necessary). Automated refueling can easily include a refrigerated unit, and computerized fuel level monitoring is more reliable than human fuel gauge or stick-in-tank monitoring. 24-hour logless operation mean that the power unit can go get fuel whenever the computer deems it appropriate or necessary, and maintenance can be delivered to any failed unit by the replacement unit. No freight need ever spend more than a few hours in transit, since speed limits are not a serious impediment to aerial transportation – but even with a 65mph speed limit, no freight need be in transit for more than about 50 hours, to get anywhere in the country. If insulation isn’t adequate to keep te freight cold for that long, by itself, then dry ice probably would be – and it should not be too hard to carry enough fuel to keep a refrigerated unit running, for that long. Of course, the unit will probably pass refueling stops at least once every hour…
Seriously, even if you really needed an onsite human to operate the refueling or to start the refrigeration, there will likely be hourly employees at the site where these things need doing, and any minimum-wage teenager can figure out how to pump gas or set a thermostat and push a button. And there will be a lot less of them needed, then there are truck drivers, now – despite the “driver shortage”…
And if it doesn’t go fully automated right away, it can still easily go remote control, and our jobs can be outsourced to some Pakistani call center, for an insignificant fraction of the cost of an onsite American driver.
We are on the way out, Lawrence. To believe otherwise is to be in denial. You don’t want to wind up like the Detroit auto workers did, when that industry automated and went overseas, around the 70s and 80s… They either didn’t see it coming, or didn’t want to – but it came anyway. It’s coming to us, too. Pretending that it isn’t won’t make it so.
Good ! Prime doing they own thing…
If driver goes work for them its driver decided business……
Hello. Misclassification (‘lying”) of drivers is why drivers are not paid overtime.
Actually, Larry, trucking is specifically called out as an exception to the federal labor law regarding overtime.
Thank the industry lobbyists, I suppose. I don’t know it with any certainty, but it sure sounds like the kind of thing that the ATA would have been behind… :-/
not just truckers but farmers too
And computer consultants, yes, but we’re getting off-topic… 🙂
Well, unfortunately if Brett Kavanaugh is appointed, this case is a done deal.
He has ruled time and time again that workers have very few rights as compared to those of corporations. Personal opinions aside, this nominee has a very long record of siding with big companies, rather than their workers.
No politics, just a fact.
People have a choice, nobody forces you to work for a POS accompany like PRIME …. I support the Constitution and Freedom, not a court that everyone thinks needs to fix stupid.
I do hope now that prime loses because of how SLEAZY they are…
Your comment is familiar. The last time I heard it when I asked an Operation Manager for Roadrunner to assists me recovering unpaid monies for layovers and detention time. He responded, “If you don’t like working here you can quit and go work somewhere else.” After 4 months working for the said company, it had schemed 490.00 from my payroll. I later file a successful labor and wage complaint with my State that persuaded RRTS to pay the amount owed me. By the way, that was not the first time I recovered wages owed me by filing a State wage and labor complaint against a trucking company.
Trucking companies that take of advantage of the hyper-disunity between CDL Professional Drivers are a dime a dozen in the Trucking Industry.
I sincerely hope this driver wins this dispute and pray the courts will find the exemption warranted for us drivers. And screw the ATA. Nobody forces us to drive for these rat companies for a slave wage, but when the majority of them are controlling your very existence it becomes demoralizing.
Truck driving has been a slave market for decades. We spend countless hours waiting for loads, being broke down not getting any compensation. Most non union run companies don’t even do paid holidays. Schneider pays only thanksgiving if worked, 65$ for a 24 hour breakdown. After waiting three hours for loads they pay team drivers 3$/hour . Go to work for union run companies. Better benefits and pay.
Wanna stir up drivers, talk union.
That’s IF you can get into them. Several times I’ve tried around here in the metro Detroit area only to either simply never hear from them or in one specific instance, I remember, still even to this day, I remember vividly after ten years, of getting absolutely bitched at and chewed out by a lady because I was responding to a help wanted add for a local driver. I walked in, asked for an app and the lady went off on me. Asking me who did I know? Who did I think I was? I can’t just walk in off the street and ask for an application, that they don’t just hire anyone off the street, that I had to have the name of a current employee as a reference to get the app. Then there is also all of the seniority problems associated with unions and over time rules. As a new driver coming in, on the bottom of the ladder, in this industry, you’ll never work more than about 30 hours a week, if that because you can easily go into overtime on your third day. This is the trucking industry. 12, 13 hour days, 6 days a week, is not unheard of. Every week as a local driver they use my 16 hour exemption because some shipper somewhere doesn’t care and makes me sit. So what am I going to do? Go work for a union company that has forced over time after 40? In that situation, one of things happen. They simply refuse to pay it and send you home after your second, maybe third work day or if it’s a seniority union system, unless you’ve been there for “20” years, the union won’t allow you to have the overtime. So that’s why I don’t waste my time with it anymore. I make more money working for non union companies.
Definitely, a good strong union would bring all these companies to their knees and they would still be doing fine. Drivers would just consider it a job worth doing for a change.
I thought that the truckers union (Teamsters) where a thing from years ago. Are there really unionized companies?
Miller Transporters Jackson, Ms.
When Carter walked into the White House, Mobile, Al. had 550 trucks 80 % were team trucks. Today 10/9/18 that terminal has 28 drivers. THANK YOU MR CARTER FOR DEREGULATION.
“good” and “union” should never be used in the same sentence.
You mean how the avg truck driver makes more than the avg American household?
In order to get changes made, you have to appeal to the majority of people. But all it takes is a simple google search to find out that the average American HOUSEHOLD makes about $51,000 per year, which is less than your single, average OTR driver. That’s less than $1000 per week.
Truck drivers have lots of legitimate beefs, but not making enough money is not one of them. Perhaps not making enough money for the sacrifices they make by being away from home, but its not like anyone becomes a truck driver not knowing that. Name another job that a high school dropout can avg $50,000 per year doing.
Truck driving is a dangerous, thankless job. But you’re making a lot more than the lady working overnights at the truck stop cleaning the bathrooms and refilling the coffee pots.
Heck, many local drivers are making at least $1000 per week now. If you can’t find a way to live on a higher than average income, Avg Americans are unlikely to help you when it comes time to make changes.
You make more than most teachers, firefighters, police, and trucking company office personnel, and they usually get paid MONTHLY, so they have much harder budgets to manage compared to someone who gets paid weekly. In order to garner public sympathy for the cause, focus on the actual problems of our industry, not the self-inflicted ones of being stupid with your money.
Agree completely. After falling for the predatory lease/own companies and getting in my couple years experience, I now work for a great small company and get paid a lot more than most people in my neck of the woods. Truck drivers get paid well…at least the smart ones who quit those blood sucking companies and do some research to find a good employer. Sixty-five grand a year ain’t too shabby if you ask me hauling dry van no touch freight and home every weekend.
The average suburban cop in my neck of the woods is at about 100k plus. They start out in the city for a couple years then take a cushy job in the ‘burbs, Im sure that happens in quite a number of regions around the country. Cop doesnt usually make the top 5 most dangerous jobs, Truck Driver does. Not picking on LEO just pointing out the inequity.
That cop also probably has a college degree. We’re talking about jobs that need no education. Just 6 weeks of training. If a driver has a head on his shoulder, he would become an independent owner operator, not a lease purchase driver and make $120K plus.
You may not believe this but the vast majority of truck drivers that I know, including myself, have college degrees. That may not be your circle but it is certainly mine.
The vast majority of cops spend a few weeks at some analogue of the “POST” academy (Police Officer Standard Training). State cops may require some sort of Criminal Justice credential (tech school or college), but your average local beat cop does not. And like most industries, the bigger money does go to the guy with more training – or experience.
My college education makes me a “bad fit” at many carriers, so I conceal it. Carriers almost never pay more for college-educated drivers, especially at the scammy mega-carriers. They prefer to hire people with less education, perhaps because they are easier to decieve, manipulate, and coerce – people with less education tend to have a poorer understanding of the law, the legal system, and the judicial process – and consequently, a greater general resistance to filing lawsuits.
These carriers like former military, preferably enlisted. They get grants for hiring and “training” veterans, and former military members are often accustomed to executing orders without argument, and under difficult circumstances.
The idea of illegally classifying employees is far more widespread than just trucking. Trucking and the lease purchase programs may be the most egregious, but it’s happening in alot of industries.
I worked as a mechanic at a small shop, and one day was told that I was an independent contractor and that taxes would not be taken out of my check anymore. They still told me when to be there, when to leave, what to do and how much time I had to do it, but yet, I was an ‘independent’ contractor.
IRS defines this as being an employee, and an independent contractor is defined as someone that has their own tools or equipment and has the freedom to work at their own free will. In my opinion, illegally classifying employees as independent contractors should be considered tax fraud.
I still work for that same company, occasionally, and it’s on my terms when I do. I now know what it means to be ‘independent’.
Employers are testing the limits of enfircement of employment law, and finding it “soft” – so they are starting to take advantage. Things like DAC reports used to be considered libelous and defamatory, but now they are spreading out from trucking (where they were initially tolerated for “safety”) into other areas of employment.
If you set your own schedule, and are not required to report to your employer’s location, for work, you *might* be an independent contractor. But if you are paid on a 10-99 tax status, that is merely your employer, asserting that you are an independent contractor. That they say it, doesn’t make it so, but someone has to object. If it’s you, you’re probably soon to be unemployed, and independent contractors aren’t covered by unemployment insurance, either.
Oliveira claims that he duties as an independent contractor were almost identical to his duties as an employee…
The word to watch here is ALMOST. And it will be up to Prime to show the significance of it.
The things these companies are doing to us drivers is quite despicable. Always coming up with new angles to decrease the ability to earn a living. I hope that every driver who has come up against this issue SUE. Creating a panick wide shock wave through out the industry. They wanted eld for example now there is data. Go get em
This is the first time that the court has shown any sign of supporting the drivers, Jeff. That’s why you haven’t seen the panic, before – usually the court refuses to hear the case, and it gets sent to “arbitration”, where the driver is almost universally screwed.
But if you think that this is a breakthrough, look at what happened in the class action suit by drivers against Uber. Odds are very good that the same will happen to us.
ATA has been against drivers since the beginning. The Mega Carriers own ATA and pay and control them.
ATA= truckers #1 enemy, who supports this organization, where they get the money from, as a driver I will never pay a penny to support this evil organization, they are always screwing drivers and in favor of the government, screw you ATA
Seems like a bunch of B.S. to me. No one forced his hand into a fleece purchase. A person hears about all this revenue that they’ll make, signs up, and fails because they have no clue how to run a business. But yet now it’s Prime’s fault. How about taking responsibility for yourself.
Wow, did you not read the article? No, you didn’t. You’re just here to feel morally superior about yourself, but have no idea wtf you’re jawing about.
Brand new drivers dont often have the tools necessary to make any type of ownership work, yet companies use high pressure tactics to push their garbage on new drivers. This guy was brand new and put under pressure. He was brand new and probably scared to say no for fear of losing his job. These companies know this and they prey on these drivers, not just Prime either but they seem to be the one constantly in court defending their indefensible actions.
I believe the issue at hand is whether or not Arbitration can be part of an owner/operator contract.
When 2 businesses sign a contract for one to haul freight for another, it is not an employment contract.
What about broker loads? If Motor Carrier A has a load with no driver to cover, they put it on a load board. Motor Carrier B responds to and accepts the load. Included in the contract Motor Carrier B signs, is language to resolve disputes by arbitration. Motor Carrier B could be JB Hunt or an owner operator.
What are the chances Motor Carrier B can afford to defend itself against a judgment? JB Hunt – sure. Owner op – no. Wait 2 years for a trial date while incurring costs for attorney to appear in court and to file regular briefs.
Arbitration is quicker, more efficient, less costly.
It is, yes. Better option; do business fairly in the first place. Then nobody needs to sue. Why is this not a problem for your local corner store, or restaurant? Because they aren’t nearly this manipulative or coercive to their employees.
If your company has so much trouble with lawsuits, that they feel the need to turn ti arbitration, to cut costs, then maybe they aren’t doing business fairly, in the first place.
You shouldn’t need to trim your legal costs, by trimming the rights of your workers. You should simply respect those rights in the first place.
It’s about time!
I’ve always advised drivers not to sign up for a lease/purchase from a mega carrier.
If they pressure you just tell them that you’re definitely going to do it but need to wait until next year for personal or financial reasons….. in other words- string them along and keep stringing!
If you truly want to be an o/o you are far better off to build your credit and your savings account FIRST, then buy a NEW truck and finance through the truck manufacturers- e.g. Paccar for Peterbilt or Kenworth.
Buying your truck from the dealership closest to your home is advised because when the truck is in the shop you can be at home; also you will be able to bump to the front of the line anytime you are getting work done at the same dealership you purchased from.
Ok I drove for Prime in the 90’s. I completed 3 leases at Prime. 1st one was basically a half a lease as truck was a turn in and I ran it for the rest of its lease of 3 years. I completed 2 full 3 year leases after that one and the last one they let me order additional features on the truck from the dealership and I bought that one at leases end with my maintenance escrow money that I had. Lease purchases aren’t for the faint of heart as it will consume your free time because you really can’t afford to take extended time off unless you have prepared for it ahead of time. You’ll come back to work and realize that you are way in the hole to the company. I did very well at Prime and if you don’t have the drive to do what you need to do then do yourself a favor and stay a company driver where everything is done for you. I had a great relationship with my fleet manager and she kept me rolling all the time, I never turned down loads always helped with re-powersand went the extra mile to make my money. I left Prime in 2000 with my lease purchase truck I bought to pull containers in VA to be home every night. I have since traded it in and bought 2 other trucks including the current truck I have which is a 2014 Peterbilt 579 which I bought new and stay out Mon thru Fri home on weekends. The lease purchase worked for me because I didn’t have established commercial credit and I definitely didn’t have a $10k to $15k downpayment for a new truck at that time. This story is BS, a student driver was forced into the O/O program? When I was there a student driver had to be with a trainer for 6 months before Success Leasing would lease them a truck, a trainer could suggest that he or she be upgraded at anytime. This person in this story saw the truck and was like wow that’s can be my truck and didn’t have a clue as to what it takes to make it in a lease purchase situation.
Bad Influence has it right. I went to work for Prime in the mid 80s, with my eye on owning a truck. You had to drive for them for 6 months before you could apply for the lease/purchase plan. It only took me 3 to figure out their way of doing things wasn’t for me. I AM an owner operator today. Have been for 20 years now. But I did it by saving for a downpayment and borrowing from an independent lender.
I’ve been asked for advice, many times, on how to get started as an owner operator. My first piece of advice is NEVER let the same people control both ends of your cashflow. A lease/purchase program, even with an honest company, is a HARD and dangerous way to buy a truck, not to mention a very expensive way. It’s not for the faint of heart. But then, neither is giving someone with no business experience or financial qualifications or even truck driving experience a couple hundred grand to buy a truck, so if YOU choose to put YOURSELF in that position. YOU have to be prepared to see it through. The same goes for going to a bank. The difference, aside from being potentially cheaper, is that you have to set up your own maintenance fund and make your own decisions about how to keep the truck moving – and you DO have to keep the truck moving – until it’s paid off.
That is very well said. I have been trucking for 13 years. There is no way i would consider lease purchase. Nor could anyone persuade me to do it. As I stated above, I do know some good safe drivers who havent been successful with it. I just think the mega carrier providing the program benefits the most. You said a key phrase. “ Never let the same people control both ends of your cash flow.” Still I do think some of those programs are designed for failure though.
In other words, the companies that offer “lease purchase,” have calculated the majority of drivers that desire to be an “owner-operator” are not business acute, so why not take advantage of their hopes and dreams to be their own bosses by making an offer that is basically a carrot leading a donkey?
I’ve been at Prime 10yrs now and things have changed, they are pushing drivers now to lease and now all training for new drivers is 4 weeks. I have argued with my Fleetmanager about this very topic, and as I told him, this practice will come back to bite you
Floyd, I’m actually a trainer at Prime and have been for over 3 years. Students are out from a minimum of 10 days, to up to 3 weeks with a permit to get their CDL. After that, they need 30k miles, with a trainer, at minimum before they can come back to upgrade to their own truck. That generally takes 6-8 weeks.
PRIME, Please Remember I Mortgaged Everything!! Lol
It would be justice do if the working man/woman won this case these crooked ATA companies have it coming
I hope he wins!!
PRIME is a SLUMLORD trucking company that needs a smack down !!
You get what you deserve when you enter into a lease agreement. If you can’t buy the truck yourself because of shitty credit then don’t become an o/o it’s just that simple
Yes. If you’re broke, then you deserve to be a slave forever. Well said, Buck.
Look, owner-op is certainly not for everyone, and new drivers especially, should probably avoid it. But this isn’t about poor judgement or low economic morals. It’s about manipulation, coercion, desperation, and greed.
Maybe you could give the broke people some credit for wanting to *work* for a fair wage, rather than just collecting a goverment check, robbing people who *do* work for a fair wage, or costing taxpayers a pile of money to house them in prisons?
Driver’s pay should start at 75000 a year nobody is being paid for what it takes to do the job
Walmart starts its drivers at $82k yr, that would be a good number to start with,driver shortage solved.
Man, This just once again shows why people don’t want to become drivers. Even the dreaded behemoth Amazon has done some soul searching and decided to raise its minimum wage to 15 an hour. For all the gripes about that company. My few experiences were they had nice big yards. I was in and out in no time. Efficient as hell. The yard dogs I met there were making 18-19 to start and had like 60 hours week if they wanted it and all they had to do was move some trailers around. Boring work but they had less responsibility than a lot of drivers I’ve met seemed content with their wages while they were there. Keep it up big companies. Robot trucks are a long way off based on trails so far. I actually threw out my resume to a few places and asked for what I wanted in wages health insurance etc. what I wanted not what most companies were willing to pay and a few even came back with a minimum 75,000 to start and health insurance and full package day one. They are out there. You just have to be firm apply to 20 companies and not budge and it’s amazing given the lack of drivers what can be paid if you just use the whole Ill look elsewhere Philosophy. Hell I even made 120,000 one year before the oil crash just by giving a cheesy sales pitch. Working the Bakken however on some days was some work for sure. Hold firm transfer often and demand your price. There are companies that will give you more or less what you want after 3-6 months experience.
Why do truck drivers have to got clear up to the Supreme court just to be able to make a living wage ? The Supreme courts, and the trucking companies are working together against the truck drivers. The truck driver loses, and the lawyers get richer. This type of “abuse” should be illegal.
go to
As a independent contractor for knight i get to do whatever i want, they dont dictate my schedual in any way, they dont dictate my hometime or when i do my 34 nor do they dictate where i run my loads my driver manager runs me how i want to run.
I hope Dominic Oliveira is successful and his success with the lawsuit becomes a positive effect between the CDL Professional Driver and Trucking companies. But be mindful an out of court settlement would have the effect most desirous of the industry thereby leaving drivers in the same state of dumbfoundedness about the power of organizing to fight against the industry-wide practices of wage/earnings malfeasance and all other industry unfair practices targeted specifically at CDL Professional Drivers.
I hope he loses. I work at prime. Been here 2 years. Im a company driver. Nobody pressures the student to sign a lease contract. He probably was trained by a lease operator and was shown the settlements from the good weeks and not the bad ones. He should have read his contract it says arbitration. Its a walk away lease. He could have just walked away and went company. Happens all of the time.
The grass isn’t greener on the other side and people need to know that the money might be better leasing but there is a lot more to consider before signing the lease.
and all that sticking up for prime will get you terminated just as fast as you got hired. you are but another seat warmer. mess with mr lowes bottom line and you will see how fast you are shown the door. oh yeah and you aint no one special.
In my opinion, the industrywide lease purchase programs are calculated to reduce or eliminate the company risk associated with operating a commercial vehicle intrastate or interstate commerce by transferring that risk to the leasees but not transferring the power of generating a fair share of the profits the leasees earns operating the truck. This is the foundation of this lawsuit this is what the Supreme Court will decide if the trucking industry lease purchase programs are fair business practices or do some violate sound business/commerce laws and ethics. I’m watching to see if the Supreme Court rules in favor of a common person…
If drivers were paid for all of the work they actually do, driver pay would increase exponentially, also. Imagine getting paid to pre-trip, fuel, drop, hook, post-trip, sweep trailers for customers because the last driver was too lazy, or babysit a brokedown truck on the side of the road for 10-12 hours. (Yes, I’ve done it with Whiteline Express.) You knw what they call a person who doesn’t get paid for the work they do? A slave.
Maybe Ill get back into trucking if they increase the pay.
what is with the ata? they are no more trucker friendly than california. they filed friend of the court? no they filed look here we grease them accounts so do as we say or no more. and that means to hell with the ones running this country. the trucking business.
Classic example of the ATA representing large companies instead of truck drivers. The ATA is no drivers friend. It’s a strong lobby for regulations that don’t favor drivers.
Soooo, yall see where the ata sides, right?
Anti trucking association
It’s interesting to hear the wining of truck drivers. Your points are valid, but NO ONE PUT A GUN TO YOUR HEAD TO SIGN UP. My lease purchase will be completed next year. I clear from a $1000-$2000+ a week. A lease has many financial and tax advantages to it Most drivers are not educated or knowledgeable enough to be owner/operators.
I hope he wins and the feds finally start putting a stop to this contractor b.s. they have rigged the system to screw drivers over and line their pockets. Some health benefits would be nice how about a w2 instead of a 1099 where they stick the driver with everything but money
Lets see now. I control your payment, Insurance, loads, what else???? EVERYTHING!!!
IF…IF YOU MAKE IT, YOU HAVE A WORN OUT, NOTHING WORTH TRUCK.
DON’T FORGET, 6/32 ON THE TIRES? YOU NEED NEW ONES. THEY ONLY COST $6500.00 NO TRADE INS. We got you a truck, not a warranty.
do not do lease purchase slavery. period.
Or, it could relieve companies of some of their excessive profit, transferring it to the drivers who perform a job this is full of begative aspects.