At the ATA’s Management Conference & Exhibition last week the Chief Safety Officer of the FMCSA, Jack Van Steenberg, laid out the FMCSA’s priorities for 2015. Among the top five he discussed was the plan to implement a rule that would mandate the use of electronic onboard recorders (EOBRs).
Van Steenberg said that the agency hopes to have the rule to the DOT secretary’s office in the spring and a final rule “sometime in 2015.”
Approximately 2,000 comments from the public have been received on the subject of mandatory EOBRs, and Van Steenberg acknowledges that not everyone seems to be in favor. Despite the opposition however, the FMCSA still believes that the rule will be beneficial for everyone.
“There is a lot to consider when it comes to the electronic logging devices. We want to get it right and we want to get it right the first time,” he said.
Also among the FMCSA’s top priorities are a unified registration system that would help combat chameleon carriers, adding a safety fitness determination to company’s CSA scores, implementing “inspection modernization” to cut down on duplicate charges against drivers and carriers, and adding a third phase of the CSA program.
Next Story: Operation Safe Driver Enforcement Blitz October 19-25
Source: truckinginfo
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“Acknowledges not everyone seems to be in favor, but we and the ATA are going to force this down your throat because we think its good for everyone. (our bank accounts through kickbacks)”. This is an infringement on our civil rights. It should be a choice. If you want EOBRs then have at it . A company or individual should not be forced into it.
I totally agree with you, to be honest I don’t think it will benefit anyone but the FM CSA, it will surely cost us all as in dependants more than just $$$
Nobody has the civil right to cheat.
Who said anything about cheating?
I have an idea. Let’s put recorders in all cars too. If you just got done working a 15 hour day you can’t drive home. You’re too tired. If you don’t stop completely for a stop sign or if you run say 65 in a 55 it’s all recorded for 8 days and if a DOT pulls you he can plug in and write tickets for every offense. Sounds silly..right??. But that is really what they are doing to truckers. This device actually forces drivers go drive tired. What if you are 9 hours into your day and it’s 10pm. You have an appointment at 6am so you can’t stop and rest even though you’re tired. You won’t make your appointment. So you have to drive another two hours nodding at the wheel possibly. It’s so stupid. I know when I am tired. I don’t need a computer to tell me. I see these guys on elog flying through truck stops and construction zones all the time because they are crunching that clock. It’s dangerous. A trucker has to have flexibility. The question isn’t do I fudge my logs it’s do I drive tired. I never drive tired. Ask some of these guys running elog that same question. Of course they drive tired. They have no choice. Fudging logs is sometimes safer. It’s like you…Mr administrator driving on the DC Beltway. It’s 55mph on the Beltway but if you try to drive 55 you’ll get run over. It’s actually safer to run @65 which most everyone does. Technically you’re “fudging” that speed limit. But everyone does it. See the hypocrisy??
Pollution and emission compliance. Here’s a stat for you. The UN did a study and found that ALL diesel motors in the US combined only account for 3% of all pollutants put in the atmosphere but if ask most people will say truckers are the leading problem. It’s such BS. Trucks aren’t a major contributor to this. But in order to know this you would have to do some research and most people would rather get their info from the mainstream media or the trucker sitting next to them in a truck stop.
What other reason is there to prefer paper logs? Are you a glutton for paperwork?
It’s the added cost, Ray. I don’t want or need to pay someone to watch me. Let me ask you this. Would you be for the govt implanting a chip in your body so they know exactly what you’re doing and where you are? And by the way, they charge a fee for this service that you have to pay. It’s the same idea. This has nothing to do with safety. It’s about money and control. Not your company, govt control.
Has anybody else noticed the main objective in America today is to make someone else miserable ? Just wondering?
I see your point Chuck. No, I definitely do not want a chip in my body. If it ever gets to that I’m leaving the country. I’m also very strongly against cameras and microphones pointed at the driver. I’ve already quit one job over it. The thing is truck drivers did it to themselves. Back before the industry was regulated guys were driving crazy hours and killing people. That’s the main reason why we have e-logs today. Privacy may be your only issue with it, but most prefer paper logs so they can cheat. Drivers have already shown that too many are not honest and responsible enough. Some, like Wing for example, even feel that they are entitled to cheat. That sort of nonsense has to stop.
Ray, one more question. This happened. 8 am appt. 40 miles to destination. ( St Louis ) 2 am and your elog runs out of time at 3 am. Driver is so sleepy he’s about to pass out. He called me and I talked about everything I could think of to keep him awake. He made it this time. Here’s the way I see. Elogs almost got him killed. With paper logs, he could have stopped and slept 3hrs and still made it into St. Louis before rush hour. How say you on this ? This was one driver. How many others do this every night, or day for that matter? I run a dedicated run. Takes about 9 hrs to turn. I take a nap when I get sleepy. Elogs are not about safety, it’s like everything else. Money.
Chuck, the answer to that question should be self-evident. If the appointment is set for 0800, and it’s 0200, and e-log runs out at 0300, and the driver is 40 miles out and is dead tired, the driver has messed up and will miss the appointment due to poor trip planning. If he’s dead tired he shouldn’t be driving. He should have stopped earlier before he got dead tired to give him enough time to sleep and get his 10 hours in. If the load was impossible to make while running a legal hos he should have declined it. What did he do? Did he drive to the consignee so he could make his 0800 appointment? That means he has illegally cut his 10 hour break in half and will drive tired tomorrow not to mention he’s already a menace on the road. Do you think drivers should be allowed to cheat on paper logs to cover their mistakes?
Ray. He runs for a 300 truck company. He does run elogs. This is my point, trucking is not a cut and dried business so things never work as planned. He had time to make his destination. He just got sleepy, but couldn’t stop. He made it and delivered the load. Ya know on second thought I hope they do pass this law. Oh sorry “rule”. I’ll just take my thirty years of driving experience out of the mix and find something else to do. While I’m doing it I’ll put my single parent with custody driver out of work too. Good luck with your government control guys.
Ray. Speak for yourself. Since 1938, The Fair Labor Standards Act, has cheated drivers out of fair compensation for their fair labor. The EPA and California CARB, just a few months ago, posted the facts about EPA and CARB rigging the business to get rid of older trucks, as manufacturers were crying that trucking companies were keeping and maintaining older trucks, as they last a while and are stoutly built, unlike the plastic/ computerized junk of today and the future.
EPA/CARB soundly stated in Fleet Owners magazine, that to sell the new products in the transportation industry, that they made up the new smog rules, to help the manufacturers, as the manufacturers were crying wolf, and couldn’t make enough money on their poor sales on new equipment. Who’s the cheater here.
Since the seventies, when deregulation came into effect, and unions became less in vogue, who benefited? Congress came under pressure to deregulate, as trucking companies and food producers, shippers, manufacturers,etc,were all screaming it cost too much to ship the product and got Congress to rig the market and dilute the trucking industry, so now we have NAFTA to bring in Mexican Carriers to further dilute the market and bring fair haul rates down further. Who’s cheating here?
You say drivers cheat.
Here’s one for you.
The last small carrier I worked for, a couple of months ago, was forcing it’s drivers to run overweight axles on back roads from Colorado to Pennsylvania. A driver couldn’t add any fuel to a quarter tank. Then, when I reported,two weeks in a row, that the slider pins on the old trailer I was hauling, were not locking properly, this report was dismissed by the carrier, even when clearly shown the problem. I was not payed the last 2,400 dollars I was owed by this carrier. I refused the last load under these conditions.
FMCSA ,Lakewood,Colorado…, Department of Labor, Colorado, Ed Perlmutter, Seventh Congressional District Representative, Colorado, Governor Hickenlooper, Colorado, U.S. Labor Department, Colorado Springs office ,Mr. Paleaz, U.S. Department of Labor, Washington ,D.C., via several emails and FMCSA, including local Lakewood,Colorado office were notified of these working conditions.
The owner of the company said, via letter, that I had totally abondoned the trailer and tractor and load, when in fact, my brother in law, was sleeping in a tractor in the yard, when I returned cleaned out and swept out the tractor,trailer was clean, both in same condition…the six and a half miles from the shipper, a natural dairy, after refusing the load due to safety concerns.
The OSHA office plainly states in their letter to me that they did not believe I had a valid safety concern and did not read the company owner’s reply or that he plainly stated in his reply letter to OSHA that there were any safety problems with is trailer.
The OSHA officer I spoke with was told plainly, by myself, and given the phone number of my brother in law, who witnessed the equipment return in good condition, that he thought the whole incident hinged on money.
Yet a week later, this trailer was sitting only on its landing gear and jack stands, with all the
tandem axle gear removed, in this companies yard, in front of their repair shop.
The Colorado Department of Labor said in their reply letter, that they did not have statutory
jurisdiction to help me recover my earned pay. The U.S Department of Labor investigator in Colorado Springs, state multiple time, his hands were tied, regarding my wage claim, and quoted FLSA/1938, saying ‘drivers in interstate commerce are not covered as a protected working class, for overtime wages nor minimum wages. From Mr. Palaez.” So The U.S.labor Department has risen to its own level of incompetence, along with OSHA, Colorado Governor, FMCSA,Ed Perlmutter, Seventh District Rep, the last two who did NOT respond in any fashion.
So WHO”S cheating here?
Now EPA/CARB and all the EOBR/ELB manufacturers(in all their forms) are loading the deck in their favor, with the HELP of Congress and lobbyists for said above entities, and including the ATA(now the standing unions get more drivers, and more revenue).
WHO’s cheating here?
Drivers are not payed for the 168 hours they are on duty, away from home, every week, as OTR drivers. Not payed for fueling or scaling,etc.
Drivers are an UNPROTECTED class of worker, via FLSA of 1938.
Congress, under the Commerce Clause in the Constitution, has the power to regulate Transportation. The deck is loaded against the driver.
Yet , FMCSA says the new 30 minute break is considered on duty time, whether it is taken in the sleeper, or off duty, and counts against the 14 hour day.
WHO’s CHEATING HERE?
Wing, I tip my hat to you on your knowledge of the industry in general, but none of that really has much to do with paper vs. E logs. I guess your point is that because you feel the industry cheats the driver you feel you’re entitled to cheat back. Well, that’s not how I see it. There are good companies and bad companies. Avoid the bad and work for the good. A 14 hour work day is reasonable in my opinion. Personally, I don’t wish to work longer hours anyway. Paper logs are legal documents, and the driver cheats by falsifying them. I say lets get the regulations changed to where drivers are not penalized for sleeping when they need to or running out of time due to excessive detainment. Anyway, I hope you have an enriching career. I have an hourly position now, and I can tell you being paid by the hour rather than by the mile mitigates many of the problems. I feel the industry should be required to pay hourly.
Ray, keep your hat on. I did not reply to be patronized.
The driver is always vilified, by whom ever decides to.
Oh, the driver is always the bad boy! Pencil pushing,pencil necks in government, insurance industry, MATT,PATT,Public Citizen, ATA, all quote what they wish to gain what they want, never the real numbers on truck accidents.
The ecm itself will catch even YOU, if a smart litigating lawyer gets the info.
The eobr and elb are rigged to save time while you set in traffic, a system brought about by FMCSA and Werner and the likes a long time ago. So, if the driver is behind the wheel,in traffic, and hasn’t changed duty status to on duty not driving or off duty..
WHO’s Cheating???
The Government….and YOU!
I and others always get a chuckle from guys like you and Cary Davis, who has his also and likes to preach about the log book…no matter its form…which is rigged against the driver.
So everybody is guilty….as no one will do the right thing and just Park the Truck for one Day!
Not sure what civil right you think is being infringed on, nothing in the Constitution supports that idea, operating a CMV is not a right any more than driving a car is. I saw this coming a long time ago, to many drivers running multiple log books and to many companies that are happy to look the other way to make an extra buck at someone else’s expense.
Correction, the only type of travel that is Not a Right, is commercial, otherwise you have a right to travel, no matter the conveyance. People have called a horse a cow for far to long!
In addition, throwing all of trucking into one basket is a big mistake.
my case, I can wait as long as from 2 to 8 hours and sometimes more just to get loaded. Should my driving time be affected this way?
I say if you’re an owner operator abolish the HOS altogether. O/O’s should not have to follow HOS. There is no point. HOS is supposed to stop companies from abusing their drivers and also stop people from pushing drivers too hard. An O/O can simply decline a load that is unsafe. HOS is not needed. No HOS means no EOBR. EOBR, logbook, or no, if you are in an accident and there is a fatality, you are probably screwed no matter whether you are following the rules or not. Abolish HOS for O/O’s who operate their own equipment.
I agree. Logbooks were originally implemented to protect drivers and now they are used against them. Let us do our job!!
I used to say I would quit if this law ever passed, but that’s because I used to have to log creatively to make any money. I got off the road and started driving local, and by the time my company installed EOBRs I was looking forward to the day when I would no longer have to fool with a paper log. I really like the QualComm system, because it gives the driver some flexibility, and the ability to edit the record for periods when the truck was not in motion. The only time it feels too rigid are those times when I really shouldn’t have pushed my luck so far anyway.
All of that being said, if this rule ever does pass and all the OTR guys have to go to these electronic logs, it is going to cause major shockwaves throughout the industry. Drivers won’t deal with this lifestyle for $400 a week, so one of two things needs to happen. a) Shippers, receivers, and dispatchers could all coordinate with each other much better, and reduce downtime, or b) The industry could start compensating downtime so that drivers running legally are still able to make a decent living.
I don’t see either of those things happening though. The industry will try to address this problem by finding a million new drivers and convincing them that $400 a week is good money.
Downtime is free, why should there be coordination? A parked truck doesn’t use fuel and the driver isn’t getting paid.
Address the problem by finding million drivers convincing them $400/week is good? THAT’S WHAT THEY DO NOW and have been for decades.
When you force drivers to drive they may arrived at the receiver ahead a time to find out that there is no where to park and told to vacate the primes no facilities to use also force to drive during rush hour traffic I’m all for safety but it’s been proven that most tractor trailer accident is cause by cars trucker keep the world moving I can say so much about this but I’m going to just stop
Time to quit trucking . you can’t be a O/O with a boss telling you when to fart
I have been using eobr since May. I was thinking it was going to be bad. I actually like it there are times that it forces me to drive when I am tired if I stop then I would miss my appointment . That’s my only issue . It’s the rules not the logs.
And you think it’s safer to run e-logs then paper?you should rethink that
I’ve run both for many years and IMHO e-logs are safer in many respects, it helps stop dispatchers who think you can run 24/7 and gives a driver something solid to back them up in case they end up in court for one reason or another.
How about this Tony. Tell them you are tired and can’t take the run. Why do you need an elog to refuse a load? I refuse loads all the time and never get lip. Sometimes I don’t even give a reason. No means no. And that’s the end of it.
“Van Steenberg acknowledges that NOT everyone seems to be in favor. Despite the opposition however, the FMCSA still believes that the rule will be beneficial for everyone”.
“Ok children, you may not like this but you are going to do it anyway”. We know what is best for you, because you are just a driver. If you don’t like it, don’t worry, we have plans to remove you humans anyway.
I am so sorry for all of you that have not been able to get out, even though you want out. For those of you who love trucking, keep trucking. I have people tell me often how relaxed I look after quitting trucking. It’s not been perfect, but the adjustment to a more normal life has been worth it.
What makes you think we want out? A good driver adapts to the job and job shops till he/she finds the one that works for them, it’s been like that long before electronic logs became an issue, if driver aren’t happy with their situation it’s their responsibility to change it. Consider this, if enough drivers leave a company because the company took advantage of them then the company will have to eventually change the way it does business if it wants to survive.
I have run e-logs for over 10 years, and was given the choice with my current employer of running paper or e-logs…I run on average 3,000 miles a week, and turned in over 144,000 miles last year. Those that are complaining have probably never ran with them
You probably have very structured runs, such as terminal to terminal. If you run like I do, booking every load the day it picks up, there is no way to be legal.
Maybe you should look into leasing to a company that let’s you pick your loads days in advance, our IC’S do things that way and never have to run illegally.
Tony, my point is I should not be forced to spend money on somebody to watch over me. I don’t have a problem with elogs , if you want to run them , good, do it. It’s your choice. That’s the right I am referring to. It would be nice if drivers could respect someone else’s opinion for a change. FYI , just because somebody runs paper logs doesn’t mean they run illegal. It’s not about safety. It’s about control and money. Why can’t you folks see that?
Then they will do there job. I ran hot too many years to fall for that. If it cant be ran legal it does need to move. If you cant make it, financially, then your in the wrong business.
Either way there going do the job there intended to do. I run elog’s , If you know what your doing they help, not hurt.
It’s over boys, pack your bags and head home.
+1
Im done I will get out of trucking when it is the law
There’s nothing wrong with EOBR’S. Only people it effects is the ones that depend on running a lot of miles toget a decent pay check. I don’t ever run over 1800 miles in a week quit pulling that cheap freight what the government needs to do is go after these companies for fair wages. I know what the freight is really paying and by these companies paying drivers 40-50 cent a mile is just a slap in the face. They should be paying a company driver around .80 to a dollar a mile.
Quit running alot of miles to earn a decent paycheck? Of course the big companies are gonna love this congrats were about to take one helluva pay cut after 21 years the writing is on the wall. Time to get out of trucking
News flash Bruce, typical company pay is 26-28¢ per mile to start and might reach 35-40¢ after….nobody knows, what company driver stays anywhere long enough to find out?
Just had 2 local job offers earning .49 cpm starting with benifits and sign on bonus and home every night. I think you’ll find that many places are slowly changing pay and benifits to keep good drivers but like anything in this industry change takes time.
Forty nine cents per mile for how many miles? The Thirty cent guy will get 2800-3000 weekly, he’ll get paid – gross – about $900 per week. You will get maybe 1500 to 1800 miles? That will produce a paycheck of what, $750 to $900?
As soon as Mr. Thirty Cents breaks $1,000 week, his mega carrier will cut back his miles, giving them to the the new Mr. Thirty Cents – or less, if one is available.
This scheme works on driver turnover, aided by the taxpayers giving money to trucking companies to continue it.
All of your complaints are basically they are removing the ability to cheat. You are the problem and the reason for the push. You are telling them you don’t log legal and they need to fix this. But doubt you’ll understand this concept and will keep supporting the cause for eobrs with your ranks. Congrats, you have them what they need.
Maybe Bill, for the few who are indeed cheats.
Reality is, an EOBR is already used like an electronic remote control by managers. An O/O not using one now will soon discover her/his freight broker will do the same thing; schedule pick-ups and deliveries based on HOS. The realities of waiting at a shipper/receiver, being sent off premises if the truck is early or the load is late and there is no legal parking for miles and miles around, will not matter. This is how it works at the big companies and will be imposed everywhere, coming soon to a truck near you!
Two house’s paid for, my 2010 Silverado and wife’s 2011 Kia paid for. Owe no one any thing. Money in the bank, I’m good to go. Soon as they put one in my truck, I’m out the door.
And Bruce, when has our bloated pig of a government ever implemented any thing that they didn’t change later on. This is about control, not safety.
I bet you owe property taxes on those two houses come every January. Like you said, control. They’re not going to put an EOBR in your truck, YOU will, at your expense, under their orders.
Gents & Gentlees: All we have to do is park our trucks for about 3-4 days! We would be paid the .80-. $1.00 per mile with zeal. We the truckers are in control of our trucks! All we must do is pulled the yellow knobs. Just park at a truck stop with 5 days of supplies and watch the show. Truckers must unite or continue to lose. cnijack
Truck and rest stops might hold, what 1/3 of all trucks on the road, if everyone stopped at the same time? There would be a lot of summons for illegal parking.
Pull the red knob, too.
keep dreaming my friend, this has been talked about for at least 45 years that I have been around the business.
Just PARK ANYWHERE for ONE DAY! The banks start shutting at day three, stores are out at three, or less, hospitals are out at one week, MAX.
Same scientific studies that a are ignored by FMCSA and the lot.
Don’t need a study, just do the math.
Elogs is a big hoax and a get rich quick scheme that’s gon to turn the trucking industry into a bunch of idiots who cannt tell time. I’ve ran both I like paper better and before u complain I ran 1 logbook and it was legal. The elog system is not making us safer if anything I feel more rushed with it. I have to park in places I’d never park at b4 just so my clocks not running waiting inline. The only thing elogs will do Is make Qualcomm and the sentators in their pockets rich. They are not safer they can be fooled just like anything else b4 too long someone will hack the system and do whatever they want to their log book and no one will be the wiser. U cannot regulate criminals into not breaking the law.
+1
I can tell ya right now, I’ve been driving off an on for 37 years, and when you in force the EBOR on ALL TRUCKS, ya’ll better start looking for,alot of parking spots for Bug,Trucks! We have nowhere to park now, an it’s BS, when people start trying to drive,a Big,truck from a book an has NEVER been in a truck in their,life!!!
NOTE: when we made the choice to become commercial drivers we made the choice to record/log every day and every movement of our lives whether we are driving our commercial vehicle or our personal vehicle.
In the words of the Borg, “You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.”
Our company has been rolling out EOBR’s for 6 months and we are at 90% installation and utilization with our 100% owner operator fleet. I am the Director of Safety and I was tasked specifically with this project. It has not been easy for the company or the fleet but the system has helped us to identify problem areas not only with the fleet but to give us hard data that we can take back to the customers to get more money for more pay to the O/O’s. I used to drive so I have been on both sides of the fence and understand the reasons for not wanting an EOBR in your truck.
It will not be an easy transition for industry but it is for the best for all as it is meant to improve safety on the roads. Ultimately it will do so.
I am also a private pilot who has the choice to fly IFR (being tracked by the federal agency) or VFR (where they only know a plane is in the air but not which plane or where it is going or for how long. If I choose to charge passengers then I become a commercial pilot under a commercial rating (license) and at that time I fly IFR which is the most safe way to fly for my passengers.
The analogy here is that if I choose as a driver to drive commercially then I choose to allow the government to track me whether it is by a paper log or an EOBR.
“Creative logging” is illegal and will land you in prison if you are in an accident that causes a fatality regardless of who’s fault the accident is. Your tractor with an ECM records the information for a period of time which is recoverable by the DOT regardless of EOBR.
The bottom line is that we are human and resistant to change, however, change is inevitable and we can either embrace it or be left behind.
Tony
You are correct. Change is constant, get used to it.
That means the only thing in life that stays the same is change.
EXCEPT, that the Supreme Court has already ruled that the company, under Part 395.08 and others, is a virtual entity, and can and must require the driver to keep a logbook.
the drivers give up their Constitutional rights to privacy and not to incriminate themselves, as the Supreme Court WILL not protect anyone or anything that keeps them from legislating from the bench.
So who made the real choice for EOBR’s and ELB’s , Congress, under the pressure of lobbyists and the insurance companies with their hands in Congress’s pockets and entities like MADD,PATT, Public Citizen, ATA,etc.?
The top priority should be stricter training of students for these big companies. 1 week of classroom and a few rounds in he parking lot? Here ya go! Have the keys to an 80000 pound bullet!
You don’t just change one portion of the trucking industry and expect that everything is going to be great, you have to change the whole industry! You need to have uniformity between the distribution centers and shipping & receiving terminals. They are the ones that need to be on the same page. So, if your going to make the truckers toe-the-line, then all the other entities need reform/restructuring as well. One other thing too, you will need to increase all pay across the board, if you are ever going to have enough labor, because for what its worth to all you bean counters, Labor Is Not An Expendable Commodity!!
I agree 100% with you. Fixing one part of a equation will not solve the problem. Shippers and Receivers, no matter what the company is hauling for them. They will need to get on the same schedule for eobr’s to work for every different kind of trucking.
all you have to do is pay drivers hourly wages and time and a half for over 40 hours in a work week,,,,stop the injustice
Truck driving is classified as unskilled work by the US Dept of Labor and is also exempt from hourly wage laws. Your suggestion will increase labor costs but not freight rates. Why would a trucking company do it? It would only lower their profit.
I hope he can sleep well at night knowing he is going to put a lot of people out of business this will not work for everyone I personally run dedicated an ill will have to get a different job thank you very much!! It should be up to the companies if they want it or not large co. can benifit from this small co. will be out o/0 will be out I feel bad for all the new o/o just starting out cause they will lose there ass. An just because we have to put mc # on our trucks doesn’t give anyone the right to tell what has to go it to it why would a person spend over 100,00 on a truck to have some one else tell you it’s really not yours. This is my opinion like it or not e-logs will NOT fix the issue better training better background checks I think what’s going on now Is enough leave it the hell alone. Once again sleep well pos people are outa work cause of this crap.write me back if you to hear more
Personally I don’t run enough miles for it to impact me. I do know several drivers who have them and the things they do to satisfy the machine border on the bazaar.
The government and the ATA is convinced that technology can solve all problems. We know better.
If I am on the jobsite pay if I perform pay If I am required to do more pay,,,its not like a dispatcher or a CEO pay for what you recieve
Personally, I say turn off all the darn trucks and get the government to realize our importance when food and fuel supplies dwindle within half a week. We, the citizens, far outnumber the feds. If everyone would unite, together, we could enact some drastic changes.We are professionals, and as such, we ought to be making a very decent living for our many efforts and sacrafices, especially for those of us with families.
I’m out too!! I’m going to double up on truck pymt and sell it
if that driver performs,,,,, pay not like a CEO that’s payed werether or not he earns dividendsif he fails he earns millions pay the people that work,,,the mistake our country performs is a pencil pusher that does nothing and makes milliojns,,,,a person that lies and uses numbers to justify nothing he personally did
I am tired of working 100 hours a week so somebody could get rich
is there any other industry in the United States that requires a individual to work 70 plus hours a week for such low wages
More like 90 hours per week for OTR, sometimes 100 if the shippers are extra bad that week, which is often.
do the simple math. FLSA says drivers are unskilled. OSHA may/may not file a lawsuit for you if you are reported to HIRERITE/DAC under blacklisting regs. FLSA says drivers are not covered by minimum wage laws or overtime pay…along with some regs in Railroad Acts.
OTR is 168 hours a week….as FMCSA has confirmed via is half hour break ruling…that that break is considered on duty..either in the sleeper or off duty…because a driver has not been completely removed or relieved for responsibility for the load, tractor/trailer or any break time/on duty not driving time/sleeper berth….until he/she is completely off duty, at the terminal/home terminal or at home OFF DUTY… and logged off duty, either via log book or time card/sheet and not required to any kind of ON DUTY work.
So JOE……800.00/168 =??? take home. About 4.76 an hour minus taxes and expenses…which is way less than a tipped employee.
This is going to be interesting –*IF*– they finally get these spy devices into trucks and drivers can no longer cheat on logs (after being coerced by companies to do so) will they actually do as they have said and quit the industry? I suggest only a small number will…at first. Somehow, some way it will have to even out because someone has to move the freight. So, either the pay goes up, of the losers who have been driving for nothing for 30 years will drive for even less. I suspect they will drive for less, because they are just not very smart.
Oh, you guys have to see these stupid things. They have a cam on both front and back. And it doesn’t matter if you cover the inside cam, because they position the box so the outside cam uses your hood mirrors to look in. Then all the vids go to a web server where anyone with access can see instantly. This is not to help drivers by no means. I don’t “drive” a truck anymore, so it doesn’t bother me directly, but beware…
Talking about spy devices!
people cares more what happens to a dogs death than what hppens when a human dies
Everyone,
Every comment on this board makes sense, with exception of one..and it is in the article itself “We want to get it right and we want to get it right the first time,” …When has that
EVER been the case? Regulatory and Government getting it right the first time….thats FUNNY..and it should be ALL or NUTHIN…you can’t regulate Interstate industry and give breaks to Oilfield, Livestock, Local and Agriculture…and while you are at it start regulating 4 wheelers.. they cause more safety problems than anyone will ever acknowledge…Just a thought…
“We want to get it right and we want to get it right the first time.”
Sounds like what we were told about Obamacare, doesn’t it?
Don’t you guys see.. all this is to force out to solo O/O drivers and remove even more competition.
Less drivers mean more money for Werner and USA truck who already pay noobs .20 cpm
Then it comes to mandating electronic loging devices I think it’s time Jack the Ripper resign. Let’s go take away from his pay and see how he likes it. He’s is a real fart smeller I mean smart feller. Goof
EOBRs are easier. Less paperwork. If the regulations are such that a driver cannot make a descent living legally then instead of complaining that drivers will no longer be able to cheat the system, why not focus that energy into getting the regulations changed?
Or finding a job that meets your needs., if your a driver with a good record owner op or company driver, good paying jobs are not that hard to find, it’s been like that in this industry for much longer than I’ve been in it.
EOBRs aren’t that bad. The biggest problem, as I see it, is how drivers are penalized for driving to a truck stop after a receiver or shipper takes 9 hours to load/unload them. With the paper logs we could make ourselves look legal. But there’s no cheating with EOBRs.
Along with a law that requires EOBRs should be one that required shippers and receivers to provide parking for your break if you are not released within 2 hours of your appointment.
Or failing that, another line added to the logs where a driver can move to a legal parking (i.e. truck stop) area from those receivers/shippers without CSA penalization.
But I guess the Walmarts, Krogers and Targets of the world just donate too much money to the politicos.
Sure glad I’m not driving anymore.
This is where a good company makes the difference, a good one won’t let that happen if possible and in case of snafu will make safe arangements for the driver.
Got it all figured out. That’s good.
Tony Blackburn is right; you will be assimilated.
I think there is more to it than that: there are basically three entities involved. There is the government that runs the prison system, there are the corporations and then everyone else. The government is looking for a closed loop prison system. Right now there is no way to control the early out parolees. What better system can you imagine than a parolee with an ankle bracelet and an EOBR in the truck locked onto a freeway?
Your posturing about quitting does not bother them because at this very moment there is a pilot program testing this very hypothesis. Soon your jeans that are sewed in prison will be delivered by a guy or gal caught by way of one of 10s of thousands of laws, thrown into the legal system and because there are not enough beds, given the choice – you can stay in or take this 1 – 6 week driving course and do your time on a highway near you – for less than minimum wage.
And then there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
“Approximately 2,000 comments from the public have been received on the subject of mandatory EOBRs, and Van Steenberg acknowledges that not everyone seems to be in favor. Despite the opposition however, the FMCSA still believes that the rule will be beneficial for everyone.”.
If FMCSA has already decided what is the point of having comments. It seems to just be an appeasement to allow venting. Heaven knows the truckers don’t know anything.
+1
All about control…..that walmart driver that killed that man on the t
njtpk could have waited till rush hour was over then completed his trip…but e logs forced him out there…even though the driver is still responsible for his driving alertness…he could’ve just waited till later.
NOT ABOUT SAFETY…AND YOU CANT CHEAT A CHEATING SYSTEM
I’m an O/O and I don’t book loads that will force me to work over 14 hours or drive over 11. There is no logical reason for anyone to work that hard to make a living. But I have worked for one of the Mega carriers, an ATA member, with a Quallcom on the truck. I was dispatched to run 14/11 every day with a 34 hr reset once a week. The idiots in dispatch had immediate access to my “available hours” and did things like send me into downtown Chicago with 2 hours left on my clock. If I ran out of hours in a traffic jam I got a logging violation and the dispatcher went home to his cozy house, got up the next day and did the same crap again.
The big carriers consider the HOS the minimums you willl work for .29 on 90% of the miles you drive. FMCSA considers the HOS the maximum you can work. The driver ultimately has very little control of his or her time because dispatchers, shippers and receivers, traffic jams, work zones, closed rest areas, packed truck stops, state cops, and weigh station inspectors don’t give a crap about your appointment schedule or whether you can find a place to park a big truck for 10 hours. Like the mandated unpaid 30 minute break, the driver pays the cost in lost income while the carriers whine about “lost productivity”.
We would not need HOS regulations if drivers were paid by the hour or by salary and worked 40 hours a week or some reasonable shift like the vast majority of American workers. Instead, the trucking industry pays on a 19th century piecemeal per mile scheme. They are exempt from the labor law protections that virtually every other worker in the country enjoys ,ostensibly because, prior to EOBR technology, they had no way of knowing if the driver was working or not. Those days are long gone but the industry continues to pass on unbillable hours to the lowly driver.
I don’t get paid by the mile and I will never again be dispatched by some idiot 500 miles away. I get paid by the load, book my own loads and if the rate is too low I go home. And I make a pretty good living doing it. But exploited company drivers burning up their clocks for chump change drive down the real cost of freight and turn mega company carrier and shipper executives into millionaires.
Unless drivers refuse to be mile slaves and actually get paid for their time, things will only get worse.
Comment of the Month
Perfect example of a driver finding what works best for him, this is how it’s always been, start at the bottom, get good at your job, and climb the ladder.
No one but you decides if you stay with a crappy company or book the loads no one else will touch.
I personally don’t think I would mind using the e log. Now that being said I’m a local OO driver that goes passed my air mile radius maybe 10-15 times a year. I’m not looking forward to having to buy the darn thing for the few times I’ll use it. And plus all my equipment is older mechanical trucks with no electronics, how are we supposed to connect it to the truck (please forgive my stupidity on if the e log is connected to the truck. I’ve never been around one in person)
It connects to the ignition system and speedometer circuit, registering drive time when speed goes over 15 or 20 mph, automatically. It also turns on automatically when the engine is started and can only be shut off when you kill the engine. It’s hooked up to a satellite antenna, and tracks your EXACT location, speed and all hours. You have to log on with a code; if you do not and are stopped by a bear, you will be presumed in violation (we all know, no log = fake log) and you’re probably done for the day, right there, maybe the month.
It will give you your location on a GPS map, can have a zillion different messages programmed in (all the mega carriers do) to allow you to quickly inform dispatch that you’re loaded and rolling, arrived at consignee, performed PTI, etc.
For an O/O not using one now, I can almost guarantee you a broker will insist you connect to them through the satellite uplink, trucker E-mail in other words.
At a minimum I expect the FMCSA will require a real time uplink of truck info to THEM, so they can monitor speed and location of every truck with operating authority in the USA. The EOBR will also keep track of fuel consumption, coolant and air temps, engine RPMs and exact time, brake air pressure, both tank and application and nearly every other thing on an instrument panel.
It’s an electronic nanny at best or a slavemaster at worst, but it does keep track of hours, it’ll even warn you well before the 30 minute break is due.
I’ve run both paper and E-log, and I always wound up tired as H during any run across country. I do a regional now, with tailgate freight. I get tired from the physical labor, not the driving. AND i”m back in shape, lost thirty ponds in 8 mos. I don’t mind the E-logs, except for one thing. They are nothing more than tracking bugs in your vehicle that can be accessed by BIG BROTHER at any time. nobody ever pushed me, I produced. I never had to run over my hours even on paper, so e-logs were a blessing because they didn’t require me to write a zillion flags. I just don’t need to be tracked like a child molester, and that is the long and short of it. I’m not a criminal. I own a small biz, like a whole lot of other people out here.
Maybe it is time to park it.
Ok I’m reading and I get it. I am an o/o. I make good money. And I’m sorry but I think having a snitch box in MY truck is a violation of my rights. There’s nothing right or fair about it. I’ve been driving for over 10 years accident free, ticket free, and have never been shut down by dot. Why do I need a box? Do I fudge my logs?sometimes. Do I drive tired? NEVER!!! Will my chances of staying safe and profitable change with a snitch box? 100% of course. We need real people making the choices. Not these crack pot pollies. That’s all I have to say.
This nothing more than having more Control over us by our Gov, it is happening in many other areas besides Trucking. Eventually we will not have many Freedoms and Rights left if we allow it to take place.
If the fmcsa really want to regulate something how about shippers and recievers who take thier time to unload trucks regulate this instead of having drivers wait for up to twenty hours to be loaded
Detention pay was supposed to help stop that but many do not want to pay up.
Any way any of you look at it it Is not the FMCSA (their politicians) it’s our fault. If 75% of OOIDA members threatened to drop their membership they would go after FMCSA like a pit bull. You see college students all over the world joining together over the simplest things and we can’t seem to get 10% of our industry to agree to take action. We’re going to have to get on the same page we all know that without us business as they know it will stop…. If we prove it to them they will listen!
Politicians all own some sort of business so all of them need us, let’s hit them where it hurts the most in the pocket book.
Well if they would quit trying to fix it it would not be broken…Maybe we should all just put EOBRs in every truck and then on that special summer day when everything is all rosy and polititions are all new to there offices and 4 wheelers are on their much needed vacations…some genious will send a signal to the satellite that is tracking all the EOBRs and tell it to shut down the trucks…..PROBLEM SOLVED we now have the power….
ROTFLMAO…the government “wants to get it right”……..HAHAHAHAHAHA……THE FIRST TIME!!!!……..HAHAHAHA
as usual, the will of the people means nothing when the will of big business and lobbyists have a louder voice.
It is more an issue with the HOS rules, more than EOBR. If I am at the opposite end of a large city, that is in the midst of rush hour grid lock, with a safe place to park, I would rather park. Then I could take a nap and relax and wait until after the traffic flushes out and then drive through the city. I will be refreshed, there will be less traffic, and as a result be safer all around for everybody. With the HOS rules I am FORCED to continue driving even when tired and take part in the traffic mayhem just to get my job done in the allotted time available in my 14 hour window.
Same process for the new mandatory 30 minute break. I have no problem being told that a break is to be taken, but it needs to be taken when I need it, not when I am being told to. Also it should NOT count towards our 14 hour work window. If I start at 0300 and with the sun coming up my body clock says I am sleepy at 0530, then I should pull over and take a power nap. Instead I stay driving because to take a break 2 1/2 hours into my 14 hour day would mean I would be forced to take another break before the end of the 14 hours, resulting in loosing one full hour of productivity.
It amazes me how the fmcsa is pushing so hard for electronic logs, but they never address pay. If they would use the paper log book properly there would be no need for electronic logs. Truck drivers should be paid both by the mile and by the hr. Put time clocks in every business that needs trucks and when we get to customers we clock in and when we r finished we clock out. Pay us hourly for vehicle inspections , sitting at bdrs etc. No more free time. This would relieve alot of stress and reduce fatigue. Let the people who want to regulate us into poverty absorb the cost of fair pay for a occupation that keeps us away from our families.
I pull containers out of Charleston South Carolina it could potentially destroy the container industry. if I go into the port and have to sit there for 2 to 3 hours that’s all going to be logged. some of you swill say you’re supposed to but I will no longer be able to drive to Atlanta and turn around and come back and have a full days work. and that could potentially stop me from making the money I need to.
Electronic logs will also add to the parking problem as well. Been running on them for years, and when you’re held hostage at a shipper or consignee beyond your legal HOS and can’t park, you need a police escort or get towed. (Some companies allow personal drive time, or line 5 as you will, but they’re getting stricter on it).
ELogs and the northeast, bad combination.
Make sure you carry loose leaf pages in case the EOBR fails. DOT does audit for these during inspections. Also dont fill out loose leaf if your e-log is running. This could be considered the same as running two logbooks.
Where i mainly have a problem with this is when one is about out of hours and there is no place to park. Some parts of the Country is worse than others but if this became mandatory it would mean companies would need more trucks to haul the same amount of freight which will leave us with less parking places.
Elb’s might be fine for someone who loads n jersey and heads for California
I run 150 to 300 miles then stop and unload then find another load. I might lose 2 to 3 hours waiting to get unloaded or loaded. No way to drive and meet door times with these stupid rules. Here I sit for an hour and now I have to take a 30 minute break ! What about is who make the short runs ? Have my 14 hours are spent waiting on other people. All trucking groups reefers , flatbedbedders , bed buggers, chip wagons and stick wagons run different schedules. It’s stupid to try and group is all together and say we are all the same. With these stupid rules I now drive when I get tired , drive at peak rush hour traffic times push the clock all the time adding more stress on myself. Get the hell out of my business you got NO idea what it takes to run out here. Owner/operators are taking it in the shorts. Elb,s will NOT work for owner/ ops running say a 500 mile radius !!!!!!
its all just water under the bridge…electronics bite as far as im concerned…why ?…because i grew up in a time before cell phones, elec loggers, even computers…as for logging via electronics or paper, ask yourself this…why all the b/s, when people driving say for an emergency disaster response type company, like i worked at for many years, are completely EXEMPT from logging of any sorts, while responding to disaster related work ?..that means no logbooks at all….i could leave nc, drive straight through to s/w texas, sleep an hour, and return straight through to nc, as many times as needed…i could drive as many miles, as many hours, as i felt i could possibly do, which were generally well above, and often double, of the prescribed hours of service..sleep a couple hours and do it again, day after day, week after week…no hassles from d.o.t, or anyone else…the newer rulings/laws are simply the end result of who is greasing the right back pocket to get their own agenda pushed/forced on us…
EOBR are the next money pit of trucking. Some fat kid in his moms basement will design a program to change whatever you want on the EOBR and sell it under the table and make millions. Common people will sleep better at night thinking their travels are safer. Problem is not within the EOBR but the quality of drivers this industry attracts. I could see the EOBR being tolerable if they would change the HOS rules to the old split 8 hour sleeper. That would give us more flexibility and peace of mind for sleep when we need it not when the government thinks we do. Look at team drivers, have you ever tried to lay in a moving truck for 10 hours straight? The current HOS and EOBR just is not safe for anyone! It’s all about money.
we all shuld be happy to be on ebor that way we can sue the company when we dont get minmum wage …. plus we need a hr rate like 24.00 hr while fueling unlding ect
And how do you expect us small carriers to pa for this mess..
Please fill me in.
I drove with E Logs for a year. You can make money with them AND get over 3000 miles a week with them. However, for it to happen depends on several factors. (1) You’ll be cheating on the lines that a driver CAN edit: off duty, on duty and sleeper berth. For example you’re not going to stay on duty if it takes you several hours looking for a trailer, securing a flatbed load, moving furniture, delayed by accidents & construction, sporting events, poor weather conditions and fatigue. If you did you’ll have less hours to drive for the week. (2) YOUR COMPANY can alter the hours you have to drive at ANYTIME. All they have to do is submit the “corrections” to Qualcomm and they’ll make it happen. Qualcomm will happily oblige because of the paycheck they are receiving from whatever truck company is using them. (3) You will have to put up with harassment from dispatchers or driver managers who’ve never driven a truck forcing you to drive when you’re tired or bugging you before your rest period is over. (4) You’ll also have to take breaks early due to shippers AND receivers who take forever loading and unloading you and then kicking you off of there property afterwards only for you to sleep in an unsafe area and be prone to lose your life. (5) When those E Logs malfunction you will need to go back to using paper. If the screen alone acts up, regardless of what is being reported to the company, you must use paper logs. Why??? Its what the DRIVER can show to the officer…NOT what the company is saying. (6) Your dispatcher/driver manager must be aware of what you can run and have common sense and talk to you like an adult. They get a commission based on the miles a driver runs. Most of them have NEVER driven a truck. They are part of a growing nationwide problem in America dumbasses with degrees.
In conclusion, E Logs/eobrs are (1)about filling the pockets of Qualcomm, Politicians and CEO ‘ of trucking companies. (2) It’s also about exerting control over the industry. All of it is masked under the guise of “safety & compliance”.
I been using electronic logs for years and is good will not kill jobs
Or nothing like that. The only people that have a problem
Is companies and drivers that love to cheat that’s the only
Reason you people don’t agreed .
I think e-logs should only be required for the first 24 months of all new drivers enter the trucking industry. after the time passes and the driver get to go to paper logs. they will remember how hard it is to make a living with an e-log. so they will keep the paper log current and correct. I also think the e-log should only be used for drivers that have a bad personal csa score due to log book violations. they will only have to put a driver on it once. after that. drivers won’t have any trouble with keeping a paper log book strait and up to date.