FMCSA has been talking up Hours of Service (HOS) compliance rates since the ELD mandate went into effect. A 52% reduction in violations. Over 99% compliance among carriers. But even the FMCSA is now admitting that they’ve been made aware of “some instances of fraud and abuse” using ELDs – and that they may not be equipped to deal with those issues.
Acting FMCSA Administrator Jim Mullen was speaking with industry insiders recently during an annual meeting of the Truckload Carriers Association (TCA) when the topic of Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs) came up.
According to FreightWaves, Mullen was asked whether or not it was true that many Canadian carriers were altering records on ELDs to make it appear that their drivers were compliant. While FMCSA doesn’t regulate Canada’s roads, the topic quickly shifted to carrier behavior here in the United States.
“We are aware of some instances of fraud and abuse on ELDs,” Mullen said. “We investigate those very diligently.”
And while Mullen told Overdrive that the FMCSA has “a process” by which they can de-certify ELD vendors, it’s not clear that any actual action has been taken.
“I have been planning on reaching out to ELD vendors to detect how you can circumvent the rules on fraud and abuse and what the industry can do to help,” Mullen said.
One of the ways that Mullen may be hoping that the industry will help is by telling the FMCSA who is breaking the rules – and how.
“We’d love to partner with the regulated community on weeding out those who are participating in fraud and abuse on ELDs,” Mullen told Overdrive.
According to Freightwaves, Mullen claims that the FMCSA doesn’t have the technical capabilities to even find out which ELD models have issues. Instead they hope to rely on ELD providers to police themselves.
“Any foresight and information on how vendors are able to circumvent the rules, we’re all ears,” said Mullen.
Source: freightwaves, overdrive
Mr. Mullen is a liar. I reported a company for a fraudulent non complaint eld and the FMCSA told me tough crap
Suits you right snitch. Soy boy.
^^^ This
100%
lol Haha right!
Lmfaooooooosoooooo he straight up snitched didn’t he
So? See something, say something. Isn’t that what we tell kids these days? I guess that doesn’t apply to you?
You really want to go down trying to protect some mega carrier whose just gonna get a hand slap over it? What do you suppose YOU, the driver are gonna get when YOUR caught violating HoS?
Look it up. I have.
It is the DRIVERS responsibility to know and follow the rules. PERIOD.
If he suspects his company is committing fraud, but goes along with it ANYWAY, he is GUILTY.
Are you aware what the first time penalty is for violating the HOS rules are? MINIMUM: 1 year in prison, $10,000 fine and REVOCATION of your license, usually for 2-3 years. Second offense MINIMUM, more jail, $25,000 fine, lifetime suspension of your license. Remember, these are MINIMUM sentencing guidelines.
So, now that you know, you still want to “look the other way” for your company? You suppose the company is gonna send someone to trade places with you in prison? You think they are gonna pay the fines for you? Do you think you’ll be able to get another truck driving job or your own trucking insurance if you think your gonna be an O/O after that suspension is up?
How hard do you suppose it will be for a highly paid legal team to take you down in a court of law? Do you personally have the financial resources to hire lawyers and defend yourself from the Wolf pack of lawyers the prosecution has? Most truckers I know don’t have 2 nickels to rub together.
What do you suppose the judge and “jury of your peers” is gonna think when the prosecuting attorney asks “If you knew your HoS fraud, how come you didn’t SAY something to the authorities?”…and question #2, “If you knew you weren’t supposed to drive, why did you anyway?”
Do you suppose when you answer “I ain’t no snitch” that’ll get you off the hook? “Oh, well, your honor, there you go, my client ‘ain’t no snitch’! I move to dismiss this case!!!” Ya….
You think prison time is easy? You gonna be the cuttest lil thing Bubba’s ever HAD! And, good luck ever holding a CDL in your broken and bloody fingers.
Geez, don’t want to be a snitch…one of the dumbest thing I ever heard.
Thumbs up
You’re way off base on your fines.
Looks like You have all the answers it’s the driver’s responsibility period. You looked it up you quote in great detail what the fines and penalties are if you violate the rules.
You sound more like a government regulator than a driver. I’ve been driving for 27 years and The best way I know to put it if I’m tired I don’t drive I don’t care what my company or dispatcher says.
You sound like you want more regulations and more penalties and more enforcement. We didn’t need ELDs we needed the government to go after the companies that intimidated and browbeat drivers into driving when they weren’t ready to drive.
The typical government response to any perceived problem is more rules more regulations more penalties more fines more laws increased enforcement.
The vast majority of drivers on this planet are smart enough to sleep when they’re tired You don’t need a little black box to tell you that.
Everyone I know is doing their best to be 100% compliant, small carriers, 1-3 trucks. As always the fmcsa layed all the responsibilities on the carrier not the companies who provide the hardware. Asking for profit companies to self discipline themselves is letting the fox into the henhouse. Obviously you have a fair amount of experience in this industry. Great point
If you can’t make money with a truck, your either lazy or just not able to cut it. I don’t know you but you sound like an idiot
SNITCH!!
I agree ,companies alter logs everyday . A lot of drivers just think about money until they take an innocent life. If being a snitch worth saving someone’s life ,then I guess I’m a snicth.
Guys get popped for HOS violations all the time and never get sent to jail. You get out OOS for the appropriate rest break, given a citation (which now goes on your PSP…which usually only mega carriers use), and your company gets hit by the FMCSA in their safer-star scores (CSA). EVEN egregious violations will not result in jail time unless there is a injury or fatality accident. Your info is wrong
Safer-stat…
Ummmm I’d really like to see your source on these mandatory minimums….. cause that sounds downright inaccurate misinformation. Get caught violating HOS, most likely they make you take a ten hour reset or at most 34 first time. Been there. Was trying to make it to the yard to go home and ran outta time 6 miles away. Next day got pulled in for a random lvl 3 and was told I have to shut it down. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Well said driver
Never lied
Shut up stupid. It was the eld that was screwing up and not doing what it was supposed to do making my logs incorrect idiot. I reported the eld manufacturer and the FMCSA doesnt give a crap about these crooked eld companies.
Lmfao
Punk he has the right to snitch
Love the reply you made, and a true snitch, individual oo or whomever, leave it on them its their problem to deal with it not for us to dime out people, sometimes we are forced to make an adjustment to make our deadlines, anyway yes a snitch fur sure
You Jim, have obviously never been a truck driver. You are obviously dispatch.
First of all everyone should realize this regulation was not !! NOT !! Safety orientated. It was brought on to sell gadgets in the name of safety. .because anybody who has a brain can see that in the actions of carrier’s still out there ..
But if you wanna cry about who’s who and what’s what ..not doing it right will happen. There’s a few drivers that like the eld regulation !! I myself do not. Government has no real reason to b inside regulating companies they have no knowledge of. !! Period !! They ( along with greedy companies killed the industry by swamping it with untrained uninformed puppet’s. ..and it shows in our guests today. .if they were serious about safety they would go to the source. SCHOOLS .. there is where the problem lies.
It’s more than obvious that the main reason for ELDs is to reduce the number of class 8 and class 7 commercial vehicles on the road by making the job so miserable that hardly anyone will take it.
Safety protocols in the last 30 years have done zip squat to reduce the injury and death rate on our highways.
It’s just simpler to get the drivers to quit gradually and not replace them. If freight movements shifted any other way there might be an uproar from all the people that are displaced all at once. This way even if people complain, the government can just ignore them.
Freight is shifting to smaller trucks and trains primarily, with air and sea shipments figuring into it to a lesser degree.
There is far less actual production in the USA than there was 30 ,20, and even 10 years ago.
Trucking is a dead end job at this point, everything is harsh and dangerous with no benefits or health insurance that’s worth anything, and the federal taxes that truckers now pay is an obscenity. A 42 thousand dollar a year job (which is what it turns into with all the shellac removed ) will net a driver after taxes about 24 to 26 thousand a year. That pretty slim to ever raise a family on.
You can blow smoke about me crying all you want but the only reason any of us put up with it is because at this point there is nothing for me to transition to that will be any better.
I feel fortunate to have seen this early enough to prepare an equitable escape for myself, but many drivers still choose to blindly fly down the road with all of their money falling right out of their pockets everywhere they go.
I can hardly wait to see how long it takes for trucking to get blamed for rapidly spreading the corona virus. Uncle turds will probably add more inspection stations and inspectors to shut trucks right down when the drivers become too sick to drive.
Gee, I can hardly wait. More useless government intervention.
We were taught in the 1st not to tell on our fellow AMERICANS.
Why would you do that,its none of your business.
Wow, I bet that made you feel all warm and fuzzy snitching on somebody else didn’t it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Facts. I did the same and got ignored
Great job you did. Safety is very .important
When are they going to get rid of the 30 minute break, in the 8 hour, shift. It’s a joke, and clogs up the fuel aisles.
Your only making it worse by bringing it to their attention.
Just like free satellite TV, and deleted emission motors……no matter what they dream up, there is always going to be someone out there that will bring a way the cheat it, to market.
All this stuff does is just make it more expensive for operators to go to work and do the same thing we have been doing for all our lives. Not going to change anything.
Yep everyone just runs on PC now.
If a driver is getting their logs fudged, the company would have to be involved. I don’t know about everyone else but when I do a log edit, it needs to be “approved by an admin.”
Now I’m sure O/O’s could find loopholes, and would anyone blame ’em?
My edits never need to be approved. Only time approval is required is when the office edits my logs I’m required to approve the edits.
The DOT might, if they can figure it out.
I don’t know all of the systems – or all of the issues that they have – but there is a pretty standard command shell hack on the Qualcomm platform, and GeoTab’s platform is vulnerable to an SQL injection hack. It looks to me as though they are all vulnerable to maintenance port simulators cellular device cloning, and gps spoofing tactics, but that takes more sophistication than something like a simple SQL injection. In any case, administrative involvement is not strictly necessary – just very convenient.
Damn Mr. Yowler! dude why u driving lol. Sounds like you have a certain kind of skill set that possibly supersedes driving LOL
I’m an o/o we have eroad.we can’t edit without administrative help
If the market keeps dropping like the freight rates have been for the past few months this’ll be like dumping fuel on already burning fire. Drivers are already leaving the industry in droves because of this ELD mandate. Eventually. The government is going to have to either eliminate this EOD which I don’t think they’ll do because it’s too stupid to figure it out. Or they’re going to have to redesign the entire system that benefits the trucking industry.
Nope they will bring cheap labor
Yep, we might have to start learning Hindi or Pakistani just to communicate with new drivers. A truck pulled up to park beside me not long ago and about 5 of them got out of one truck, a normal sized truck. 2 or 3 of them were wearing turbans, they were all wearing sandals, and none of them seemed to be able to speak English, or at least pretended not to.
You are so right how come the FMCSA Don’t enforce the law that you have to read speak and understand English.
And what’s the problem with that ? It has nothing to do with the subject
You have to read write and understand English. ( remove speak) No longer require to speak.
I am deaf trucker for over 5 years.
There is a rule on that actually. I have witnessed several times dot putting the driver out of service for not being able to explain what he’s hauling and where he’s going and basic stuff like that. And not for a certain time period but until the carrier sends someone who speaks English the truck was under arrest
Don’t be guessing people they don’t speak English , we are wearing turban to cover our hairs & head , it’s a part of our culture we are Sikhs (Religion) belong from Punjab in India , Not from Pakistan 👍
All about comanys making profit on all drivers Less pay more money for owner
Could someone tell them that the problem is money and not eld’s,you want to make it safer make them broker’s pay and regulations should be on them..
enter stage left….south america, corporations heaven.
Self driving trucks and foreign workers
Since most if not all otr companies do not pay us when the truck is not moving we’ve all figured out how to cook the ELD books.
It was all about $ to begin with so I don’t feel bad for 1 second when I do it. The mega carriers lobbied for ELD’s to drive down wages to drivers. Set HOS regulations means set pay for drivers.
Any time someone comes up with a way to regulate people we will always find a work around. Personally I don’t believe we should follow any of these rules.
The rules are made up by people who have never driven a truck.
Why do they get to tell us when we need sleep, Or take a break? Why don’t they tell us when to eat and what to eat too?
The whole thing is a scam to extort money from good people who are out there trying to make a living.
We shouldn’t even stop at inspection stations. There are more of us driving out there than the criminals who are trying to take money from us and threaten us with points on our “permanent record”.
Or maybe stay home for a few days, until the country runs out of gasoline, toilet paper, eggs, and milk.
I still believe the need for the ELD has fabricated by the lobbyists who work for the ELD companies. Isn’t it strange how the laws keep changing to make our companies buy a new computer system every year or two?
U half way right
I agree with you totally
Bo is right Duane, you are half way right in reference to your comment about staying at home for “a few days.” The real answer is to hang up the keys UNTIL this whole ELD crap is smashed completely, whether it’s a few days, weeks, months…however long it takes for them ass clowns at the FMCSA to cave and go back to paper. I sold my truck and got out before paper was abolished cause I knew there wasn’t any way I could make money “legally”.
The French truck drivers a few years back stayed home because they were mad. Amazing things happen when you go to the grocery store & the shelves are bare. The striking drivers in France had a very profound effect on the people of France when they struck. And they got most of what they wanted. The difference between American & French drivers, is the French come together & stand together. Not much with the Americans.
Been out here 43 years over 8 1/2 million miles on body&soul All by Ground. My dad drove 43 years before the government and stinking medical world pushed him out & it Killed him. Same thing they do today but worse, lived through the 70’s trucker STRIKE,And the drivers got alot changed,how ever TRUCKING COMPANIES,THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, MEDICAL WORLD,AND THE GOVERNMENT, is right back up are butts like A PUPPETEER pulling strings to CONTROL it’s Puppets,us being the PUPPETS, only way to STOP this B.S. STRIKE ,will put these PUPPETEERS in there place, it will never happen though our government has seen to that allowing every idiot that can hold a steering wheel into my industry by career my way of life…. And it’s only going to get worse…..
You are so right I’m coming up on 41 years driving and I’m retiring in June I just can’t believe how things have changed for the worse. What gets me is no one in the FMCSA has ever held a CDL or been in a truck but they make laws. These lawmakers going to get out in the truck and get in the real world
Yep college educated MORONS n s passing regulations about an industry they could only dream about joining
PLEASE learn punctuation!!!
He put his time in, he doesn’t have to.
Old school or no school
You got that right !
43 years and 8.5 million miles. That’s a average of 3800 miles per week (at least if you drove 365days/year. You had a fast truck or you are a liar
The biggest obstacle to that is WE ARE THE CONSUMERS who would be hit by such a shutdown. Us and our families who do not have the $$$ to stock up on everything!!
Amen
Wrong, easy in a tiny country like France. This Industry is so large and fragmented banding together is almost impossible. Only worked in the 70s because Union Drivers were the norm not the exception.
A smaller population but not tiny
Population in France is expected to be 67.67 Million by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the France Population is projected to trend around 68.15 Million in 2020, according to our econometric models.
Getting truck drivers to work together is herding cats. It simply ain’t gonna happen.
Amen driver. That’s all it takes drivers. Go home and let the government men wife walk into s empty grocery store or a shopping mail high end store and clothes and shoes. And see how fast they get something done them.Let their spoil kids come in and tell Grandpa the stores are out of my favorite vapor lol
Phil you are so right about that when are we as people are going to understand that United we stand and devided we all fall, if we as a whole don’t stand for something we are going to fall for any and all of their BS, so PROFESSIONAL AMERICAN DRIVERS LETS COME TOGETHER AND UNITE AND DEFEAT THESE TYRANTS AND PROVIDE FOR OUR FAMILIES LIKE THE MEN WE ARE.
The big companies are the ones that are writing the rules the government is just the fall guy.
They write the rules that’s a cake walk for them but hell for the little guys.
The purpose of eld’s, is because of the mass infiltration of foreign drivers who cannot do paper logs.
Agreed on ELD matter. Inspections however are necessary.
The answer to most of the questions is they need to go back to the old way 5 + 5 + 5 because the old way was better these electronic logs are not good most drivers cannot sit in a seat for 10 hours straight and most of us can’t sleep for 8 hours straight that’s why we’re having a lot of wrecks accidents but most of this here school kids don’t know anything I’ve been driving for 38 years over the road an old school with the best this new thing is not of course that’s my opinion I’m old school
Ive been driving for 40yrs and recently got out of the bussiness I made more money 15yrs ago then I did a year ago. The driver is treated like a slave by companys there is know respect they tell you what you want to here just to hire you then stick it to you no more Im done.
ELDs are just technology and expecting technology companies to police themselves is retarded. Even if the FMCSA does figure out how someone is cheating the ELD manufacturer will dream up 50 more ways to flaunt the rules before they are ever held accountable for the first method. It is far more likely that the FMCSA will simply turn to their tried-and-true method of issuing fines to the driver, the carrier, and the ELD manufacturer.
All I want to say is, like the companies and the government cannot stop Hacks on their websites and breaches on their data, fmcsa cannot fight eld fraud, it’s too costly and I don’t know any companies that will police themselves, because companies and their drivers on the same side fmcsa is the enemy of their business, I should not this out loud the drivers don’t be snitching to fmcsa because this is your livelihood too and weather you snitch or not there is nothing that fmcsa can do to stop cheating on eld systems, relax and enjoy the ride.
Eld is fraught system designed to kill small business and O/O so it’s time to stick back fmcsa and the big corporations that lobbied for eld mandate.
For the record I am more tired when I am using eld than when I used to use paper logs, because on paper logs I used to sleep if I had bad sleep night and then restart my log after I am fresh again to drive comfortably. Now on eld I am slingshot when I I start driving I gotta drive weather I am tired or not. The stress level and blood pressure is also higher, sugar consumption too to stay driving, sugar and high blood pressure is killing more drivers because of eld ‘mandate.
1st off you guys need to add a stand by..section..to stop hrsosvc.when drivers are sitting at shippers or recievers for 4 to 8 hrs at a time..we are in our sleepers ..sleeping or relaxing..it shouldnt take all those hours off our day..the loading and unloading facilities are overwhelmed and cant keep up and the drivers are paying th price.by not having hrs to go anywhere after sitting at a shipper all day..now this happens to us everyday or every otherday..So of course people hav to cheat ..if we want to feed our families or Companies want to stay in Bus.we hav a double life paying bills at home and trying to eat n shower out here …When is the last time you paid $15.00 for a shower..$2.00 for a coffee 2 or 3 a day…etc.etc..
Instead of telling o/o When to drive , FMCSA should make sure that mega carriers treat their drivers like human beings . Good pay , insurance , vacation, after 8 hrs is overtime.
FMCSA should make sure that shippers, within 3 hrs a truck should be loaded / empty and gone . .
As an owner operator I want my freedom , that is the reason I don’t drive for anyone else . It is my responsibility to take care of my business, therefore I drive my own truck and I make sure my truck is in optimal condition to the best of my knowledge.
I think , and is proven, that a person with 5-7 hrs of sleep is more than enough to function, so as long as we show and proved that we slept 7 hrs with in 24 hrs it should be ok, don’t you think ?
The problem here is that FMCSA wants to impose the same rules to 2 different type of business .
1 mega carries ( great /exploits cheat abuse and bla bla bla )
2.-O/O with one single truck . We sacrifice a lot to be reckless against our own interest , do you get it ???
Its not the FMCSA or company owners you have to convince.
You have to convince the entire country that they need to be more willing to pay more food the good they buy. That is how & why deregulation hurt all of us.
They sacrificed the income of a couple million drivers, to reduce the costs of consumer goods for the hundreds of millions of others.
You hit the nail right on the head bro!
3 hrs to load or unload a truck is even too long. At least for a dry van. Maybe if you have a complicated flatbed load that has to be brought out in pieces and carefully laid out on the deck, even then, an hour? 90 min tops. But, dry van freight, the process itself, assuming the freight is staged nearby ready to go, standard pallet sizes, not stacked, not nailed into floor boards, 20 min tops. The problem is, you sit and wait and wait and wait for the forklift operator to come by. He or she is an HOURLY paid employee. Nobody is really supervising these folks, nor do they WANT to, as it would piss those folks off and they’d probably all quit. It’s hard to find someone to work for $10 to $14 hr loading or unloading trucks in less than favorable conditions.
There are lots of things that can speed this up. Quotas, incentives, how about some hourly detention that ACTUALLY had some teeth in it that starts 20 min after you check in?
What about automated forklifts, either robot or remote controlled? They want to automate the truck driver, why not automate the load and unload process?
If you have been driving for any period of time, you have been to warehouses where they drive 1/2 a mi or more to set down one pallet, drive back and get the next, back and forth, back and forth. Why not strip (or load) the trailer all at one, THEN start moving it down to where it is stored. Or, have some sort of a train system inside the warehouse that moves groups of the pallets down instead of 1 at a time? Or, how about the process of counting! That is infuriating too. I left the warehouse where I picked up the load with the trailer SEALED. I pulled up to your door with the same seal in tact! If there is a shortage on the load, it is NOT due to me! But, we are punished, forced to wait.
Nobody respects the trucker or his/her time lost at warehouses. They figured out to pay the MIN amount to lure you in the door to come work and then figure, you won’t leave.
Personally, I am done with it. If I drive, it is locally for a HIGH hourly wage, OT, etc. Then, if you ask me to wait an extra hour here or there, I really don’t care! I bring a lunch, coffee, water, a pillow, something to read or listen to. It’s all good. I check out, go home, sleep in my own bed and tomorrow, do it again!
I meant GREEDY
The only “real” reason for drivers to violate hos rules is because we are trying to feed our families and maintain our equipment. Maybe the FMCSA should regulate the people around us a little bit so that we wouldn’t have to drive all the way into the first plane of hell in order to survive.
The days of employers making you run double shifts are over. I for one and glad. I am line haul driver. I think the industry is leaning more towards going away from long haul.
Then how is something in California going to get to Boston? Transportation doesn’t invent loads, it just moves stuff to where it needs to be. Why would you need to have 5 trucks and 5 drivers to facilitate 1 cross country move when it can easily done by 1 truck and driver?
This smart phone is so smart it misspelled my name…..
ELD got me in a company truck
The article clearly states it’s Canadians doing the most circumventing. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out how… They are running on US hours until they “need to go” and then switching back to Canadian hours. By using Prepass they cruise right by most of the weigh stations. The ones they do enter, it’s rare to be checked. When that rare check does happen, the officers don’t know what to look for and away they go, Scott-free!
Plus, US O/O’s are “assigning” themselves team drivers for circumventing. They simply log out and log back in with the false driver…
Perhaps there should be no FMSCA mandated 34-hour breaks after 70 hours, but have continuous 14- hour days with 11 hours of driving time? Would be ideal for the OTR. Would a continuous drive and work flow affect commerce and reduce issues of suspect HOS fraud?
This is the chaos that happens when you continue to work percentage or by the mile. Enjoy that minimum wage boys and girls.
Maybe they should be checking why the truck fatality rate for last year under full ELD mandate was the highest it’s been in 30 years. But oh no let’s look and see if the little machine can be fudged. I can’t see why they keep funding FMCSA every year.They’re worthless branch of the government and they always have been. If you did away with piecemeal pay and percentage pay you wouldn’t even need logs.
Why is the study by the national highway safety administration so effectively suppressed… after first year of eld implementation, findings….that trucker fatalities are the highest since 1989 not mentioned. For every truck fatality how many automobile fatalities as collateral damage…..2 ? 3 ?,,,,we all see the carnage out there.
Took some time off, drove down to Florida from Indy….trucks running 15 over in metro areas, tailgating us, just a racing that clock….
I’m fed up, will most likely park mine by fall.
U got that right.
DLD just more gov. crap left wing.
What’s with Colonial Freight? Any advice? Thinking about starting there.
“Hope the ELD companies will police themselves”?
Yea, right.
Why dont they allow us to “police” ourselves?
Government morons!!!
I love the ELD system and am disgusted by the idea it is okay to break the law. 11 driving hours, and 14 service, is more than enough. I am an O/O and have been for 24 years, but been driving for 32 years now, almost 33. We already work way longer days than most people, why add to it. The cheaters should be called out, laws are to protect us, just like speed limits.
I think HOS AND ELD shouldn’t even exist. Anytime GOV get involved with anything goes down the drain. Maybe truckers should just stop driving for a few days and then we’ll get what we deserve.How people never drove a truck makes all the rules and laws. I know they paying the HOV to shit on us. Industry is favoring the mega carriers to keep doing us wrong.
We should go back to paper logs
This going on for years and years . the guy that’s sign the check holds the rules. Shippers and receivers Ben getting away with this crap for years. Carriers don’t care of drivers. What about pay. Drivers get rip off all the time . plus you leave you never get your last pay check. Only in trucking you can get rip off any place else you go to jail. Why not make it criminal if you rip a driver off.
2018 glider kit from Fitzgerald leagaly in paper. Dont have to worry about this nonsense.
Here’s brilliant idea! Why not write the rules so that no one has to cheat?
I’m not talking about wide open rules but the most common causes for cheating should be looked into and then rewrite the rules from there.
Flexibility is one issue they fixed now on to cheating.
Dann I’m a genius! All those 20+ years of driving have finally paid off!
Didn’t they claim this would stop log book violations if we were all “forced” to be on eld’s.? Probably worse than they know.
Companies labeled you as otr driver only to run short haul miles
Help yourselves. Nobody asked me if I wanted the ELD in a first place. Fmcsa wants to prevent violations? Regulate the brokers and shippers. Mostly brokers. Than there would be no need drivers to violate anything.
I quit over the road period, doing local work no, free of the communist control ELD, the government has no business telling me when or how to work, they can do the over the road part themselves, I will never be a slave of the DOT, I don’t control the hours they work so they should not control my time either.
Simple solution track my 11 hours of driving. When my truck is not rolling that’s my time an business. You have got. 24 hrs in a day. Drive 11 hrs off 13 hrs. Simple.
Trying to over-regulate something to catch the few bad eggs always results in the people who are trying to honor the law being penalized.
And when the laws are tightened and tighten to try to achieve that mythical Utopia state of absolute safety and compliance, those who have been quietly footing the bill by absorbing lost after loss . . . Are going to become increasingly motivated to find ways to recover what stupid regulations and taken from them.
Every tyrannical system in the 20th century that relied upon regulations to try to achieve some utopian objective relied heavily on collaborators and informants when the natural push back against their ill-conceived laws became too much for them to handle.
And the society where citizens were turned informant upon each other crashed as people lost the Foundation of trust.
I drive a 1995 KW so I don’t have to put up with the chickenshit eld’s if I’m tired I’ll take a nap if I can drive I’ll drive. I don’t need a machine to tell me when I can drive when I can sleep and about when I can go to the bathroom
Love your post.
It’s all about control people. Mark Wagnor is right, we are essentially puppets! The powers that be, be they corporate, or federal and state bureaucracies, want to control every finite aspect of your lives.
What they can’t control, they’ll eventually destroy. Big business will lie to you, and tell you, well that’s just how Capitalism works. Well not if your in bed with the government. Because they like to pick winners, and losers. Prop them up, if you will. Thus, giving them an unfair advantage, by metaphorically putting their finger on the scale. How do you think the ATA gets their way, so much of the time, on decisions that are made by people, who don’t drive trucks, but whose decisions, affect every one of us, who do. It’s because a lot of money, changes hands, to literally buy favor, leverage, and power.
Our government has become too big, and as it consumes, it just continues to grow. We have to starve it, to bring it to heel. If you will, allow me to explain. There is far too much bureaucracy. So much in fact, that often, the right hand, doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. But it was never intended to be that way. When our early government was making policy decisions, they weren’t as lazy as those who serve us today. They didn’t just bipartisanly vote on a law, then hand it off to the bureaucrats aka lawyers to work out the details. And we all know, that the Devil is in the details. No! They worked those details out amongst themselves, and at most, their staff, who most likely knew them intimately, or on a personal level. Because that was the only true way of insuring, that the policy/law was written, interpreted, and understood, as it was intended. And they didn’t make a damned career out of it.
When a people fear their government, that is tyranny. When a government fears it’s people, that is freedom!
More like sheep.
Americans can’t stand together when Americans aren’t American. All of these elds can be hacked or modded.. our safety manager used to do it for me, he had drivers that would drive for 24 hours straight and he would keep it legal in case of inspection. The bigger problem here is letting the ATA try to bring owner ops to their level.. slow the trucks, restrict their time… Bring capacity back to their advantage.
Ok, let’s try again.
For many years I have been saying that a sealed, self contained, solar powered unit could be mounted on every CMV and fix this problem.
The unit would have morion sensors and maybe a GPS that would notice movement over a certain distance and would have 3 LED lights visible to the trucker, the motoring public and Law Encroachment….*grin*
Solar cells and a 12v hotwire would recharge a long life battery.
This unit would have a simple program. If the truck stopped for 8 hours (or a lawful break) the light would turn green.
If a period of 14 hours passed without the truck stopping, the light would turn yellow.
If a period of 16 hours passed without the truck stopping, the light would turn red.
I drove for 25 years, until I got hurt and retired, and I can honestly say that, for most drivers, the 14 hour day is enough. I don’t claim that the rules are perfect, but once you’ve climbed out of the sleeper and start driving / fueling / loading / unloading / dropping / hooking / etc., you’re getting tired after 14 hours.
And after 16 hours, if you’re still at it, you need a break if you’re anything like the average Joe behind the wheel.
My idea of a self contained, sealed unit that would mount in a visible place and draw power from multiple places, no switches, no adjustments, no way to fiddle with it, would be the answer to the ELD problem.
It could be in every truckstop in the country within a few months and would cost less than a new Rand McNally laminated atlas…
True, my idea wouldn’t limit the hours a driver could drive. If he got lucky and had great shippers and receivers, he might drive more than 11 hours, and the Unions won’t like that.
But, going back to my own driving days, when I got tired, I LAID DOWN AND TOOK A BREAK.
At some point, trucking has to accept and rely on the human factor. Drivers will stop and rest when they get tired, and the ones who won’t, they “strike out” sooner or later.
I’m convinced that my idea of a universal device such as this would reassure the LE and driving public and other drivers that the driver of “this truck” is rested.
Very stupid idea , I hope you’ve being sarcastic, enjoy your retirement.
All the fuel haulers need to strike. Mega carriers won’t ever strike but if stations/terminals dont have fuel everyone stops peroid. Then ppl will wanna listen to drivers within 24 hrs I’m sure
PROfessional truck drivers(CDL) under FMCSA should be compensated by mandatory regulations instituted of Dept of Labor. Company drivers. 12hr days anything over 12 is overtime. If you used minimum wage at for drivers at$25hr. The mandatory raise at .50 every 2yrs to a max of 20years.drivers would be safer,
get rest, and you have healthier drivers
To your point, govt ànd military vehicle operators are deemed unfit to work after 12 hours of on duty, period.
Just another sign of the end times – we’ve removed God and His 10 (simple) Commandments from public display and let the government regulations to take His place.
How’s that working out?
This great country has been on the Highway to Hell since the ’70’s when the Ten Commandments and Prayer was taken from schools and Federal buildings.
Are they idiots? They expect me to report how people can cheat on ELD. Even I knew, I would never, never, never cooperate with any law enforcement. Everyone must do his job. I am not asking cops to help me to drive my truck, a don’t ask me to do cops job.
Said it before, and will say it again. Unless you are FORCED into it by a company, and owner operator has COMPLETE control over use of an ELD.
Either buy a truck built pre-2K and keep dumping money into making it go
OR
Buy a glider and put an rebuilt pre-2K motor in it.
I drive a 1996 Intl w/2003 Det 60 Ser 12.7. I am exempt not only from using an ELD, but, I have zero emission controls. My truck starts and PURRS like a tiger. I got 550 hp, 1,850 lbs of torque and a rebuilt 13 speed transmission to make it get up and go under ANY load and any driving conditions and I can still get 8 mpg.
Wrong on the glider kit part. My 2015 had 1998 engine, transmission and rear ends. It was still hooked to an eld. People net specifically.
You’re the only one to make sense of what’s going on in the trucking industry laws and regulations are needed but the regulator don’t have a clue keep on trucking . Charlie Brown
Government are just criminalizing the trucking industry because they are in big debt a they need a way to pay the Jewish bankers who own the federal reserve quit being naive government do not about common folks ,they submit to corporations like Walstreet .Its a fact ELDs has caused more accidents than anytime before. MR Mullin is just a puppet he’s lying through his teeth do research FMSCA are the real criminals.
TRUCKER MIKE HAS GIVEN THE CORRECT ANSWER I TIP MY HAT TO YOU
Regulators must think that they can achieve a safety rate comparable to that of airlines. That would be an interesting comparison.
Everybody funny. Now you funny too.
My company makes us pick up and deliver on our 10 hour break. Haulynx gives them unlimited “personal conveyance”. I’m considering reporting them.
Sad part about all this,
Is that the people of America have let the government entitle itself for the last 25 years through not participating in the voting booths.
Letting large multi-national insurance corporations corrupt any politician through greed.
All the while , the people of America just working away with the blinders on.
” Oh it doesn’t matter”
” My voice won’t make a difference”
” Why should I vote they’re already paid for”
That ain’t gonna cut it no more Sally
I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let all these people trample the ground my family’s defended since our Independence from the crown.
This IS a fight we can win
Because this country was founded by people willing to fight for what they believe in.
I may be an ideological idiot for saying this,
But I believe in you
Every last damn one of you, my brothers, my sister’s
God bless America
First voting is a shame to make you think you have a say, all politicians are paid by someone to get there so they have to follow what that someone says,
Yes a shut down would change the system briefly but in the end it will go back. People are so busy and preocupied they just don’t care, Amazon is destroying company’s left right and center. We are a dieing breed, self driving trucks will be here in 10-20yrs full on.
Want to deal with elds buy an exempt truck, they get better fuel economy more reliable , just need up front cost of over hauling rather then a monthly payment
👏😀
When your Company tells you to approve your logs that they changed without your permission its wrong and Illegal. Yet the fed gave them the authority to change a drivers log and still require him to approve those changes. Thats one reason to complain to the fed.
Their doing it for your benefit do you make more money.
I hope if any ELD companies start snitching on the Carriers that pay them, to the FMCSA, we all find out, so we know not to use that ELD!
ELD: a frightening view of an Orwellian future.
ELD ,hos,camera,bluetooth buzz devices. doesn’t get you in & out of shippers & receivers. As sit there watching the clock tick away. As if you have nothing else to do. With closed rest areas closed truck stops o overnight parking at Walmart parking isn’t a problem right. All this focus on trucking if were the problem. The facts are that 4 wheels are the most dangerous thing on the road. why not focus on fixing that problem. Lets reduce the speed of 4 wheels put cameras on there vehicle i know of people driving 15 hrs straight after working 8hrs. Driving 80 to 100 mph to make it wherever. Hos does matter when you have dangerous 4 wheels on the road.
I am so thankful and glad I’m out of the trucking industry, I have much more peace at job I have now, i mean all jobs have flaws but the trucking industry smfh, i can actually tell my family a precise time I’ll be home n not hope some warehouse holding me up, more peace in my house also cause it’s gotten that my son wanted to drive trucks and watching our industry he got to where he didn’t even wanna look at my truck or be in it, my family is more important that any truck on the Rd or them sorry lieing companies, lieing brokers, lieing dispatcher etc etc
Who’s gonna move the freight
I don’t usually respond. But I agree with you.
Preach bro you on the money because it’s all about money.once the government got involved trucking went to the toilet I love driving. Like you said if we stopped Rollin which would never happen because drivers want unite like back in the day when the Teamsters stood strong for the driver and drivers stood together but now everyone is for themselves not the industry
If you really want to know why they are talking about this it’s the same bull the eld makers want all the trucking business they will eventually only aprove 2 maybe 3 vendors of course these vendors are going to have to pay the piper the door fee but they will have 10 million customers that are forced to use their service and then the price will go up even more
Snitches get Stiches
Skilled labor ain’t cheap
Cheap labor isn’t skilled.
There needs to be room for flexibility. 26 years , I think I know when I’m tired .
ELDS create sense of urgency running through Los Angeles at 80 to make the last 10 miles in 8 mins is ridiculous, to loose 7hours due to a 2 second vehicle movement, running out of time . Mr. Mullen should be given 20 mins to get home from work if hes 20 mins and 2 seconds pull over wait 10 hours. If anyone should have HoS are troopers , state police they carry guns work double shifts , side jobs at the mall what happens when they make the wrong decision from fatigue. The numbers put out on reduced anything…..dont forget 2018 two occupants died in a big truck every day of that year . Mega carriers want an even playing field …..then train and pay…..6 months experience I can be a trainer….and damn it drivers stop logging off duty at the fuel pump , its disrespectful and rude . Fuel move on then take a break
The only way to win this is to shut em down for a couple days,maybe a week.
Brazil did it last year and it was beautiful.
If all the truckers were United then this eld shit would have never happened.They tried to control trucking industry and they got us in control of them.
It’s YOUR LICENSE! PROTECT IT. Don’t let any tuff talking meathead sitting in an office tell you different. Only one’s that don’t like ELD’s are the smucks who run ILLEGAL & meathead dispatchers who always want you to do a run illegally.
CTFU!!! That’s so true!!! I like the ELD, because now you can use that instead of cussing your supervisor or dispatcher out that wants you to drive illegally🤦♂️
I bet you haven’t been out here since 1970
Amen!!!! I get it and I couldn’t have said it better!!!! Its a TRAPEZOID…..LOL!
Hmm. Canadian companies cheating to get more freight? That has never happened before… right? This is the biggest issue I had with regulating the U.S. drivers like dogs on a leash. Regulating a foreign driver, sovereign country is near impossible.
Bull crap notified Illinois dot of fraud and abuse as well as altering rate cons the letter I got back from DOT was that unless a death was involved they didn’t care unless DOT can put money in it’s pocket they careless about safety.. been out here 20 years and that has always been the case
Should’ve never changed anything. The studies didnt work. They tried and failed. Look where their at now. In total damn limbo. See this what u get with unqualified people who don’t have a clue about running DOT. And the clown who put them in charge. 🤣😂🖕🏾😂🤣🖕🏾👎🏾
until drivers have a unified voice nothing will change. A fuel haulers lobby will take care of all problems if solidarity happens.shut down fuel supply all trucking stops.
never happen though because drivers won’t stick together.
Ssshhhhhhhh
They’re reading this
The message board is a great way to get Your thoughts off of your mind. The pen is mightier than the Sword. The days of that bs are goners. Now nothing is going to change until the drivers actually come together and unite. That’s not going to happen, and the big government knows it. People have become great at blowing smoke, such as this forum. Never any action! During the “Industrial Revolution “ Men and Women even Kids. they had a will that was stronger than anything that the company owners and big Governments could throw at them lives were lost and they made great sacrifice. Unfortunately as always historically. We’re here again, and no lessons have been learned.
Everyone I know is doing their best to be 100% compliant, small carriers, 1-3 trucks. As always the fmcsa layed all the responsibilities on the carrier not the companies who provide the hardware. Asking for profit companies to self discipline themselves is letting the fox into the henhouse.
Save yourselves time and trouble, just eliminate ELD’s permanently.
My problem is that bus drivers can be on duty for 24+ hours a day, as long as the bottom 2 lines on the log book don’t equal 15 hours! Whereas, truck drivers have a 14 hour limit and a mandatory 30 minute break! Bus drivers can drive a straight 10 hours! Stop downing each other and do something constructive.
Don’t worry, the new steering wheel drivers will run crying and snitching to the fmca
Is not snich, follw the rules
Want to see a real ” deer in the headlights look”, I asked my boss how it feels to have the eld manufacturer become your business partner and you had to give them money to become so.
You can blame Canada for the problems but the problem is that elds should of never been implemented. To electronically track someone is truly in human. We are humans and we are not perfect nor are electronics , if you come from Canada or you come from the USA the problem exist on both sides. I’ve been in the industry for over 40 years can even fix these trucks. Nobody can turn themselves off and on like the as ata would like to call it shareholders. The only real shareholder is the driver not the company they only invest the can’t drive that is the difference. It’s time for the government in both countries to start listening to the drivers and their needs not the investors needs. Maybe if bigger trucking companies on both sides would actually pay a driver for what he or she did not by PC miler or household miles they could get drivers to stay.
Get rid of ELD quit trying to control truck driver use paper been done with it.
Team
I am taking a class called Transportation and Logistics, by reading your comments and concerns, especially about the ELD, this is a topic we are covering today. Your insights are something I can use for my class with questions. Please keep the coming as this will help me and provide the support to my team. ( my class mates)
Thank you, safe driving
Kat
The real question is who has access to ELD data?
Can the system be hacked?
What recoarse do drivers have for privacy violations to they’re 4th amendment protections??
What probable cause is there to monitor millions of American and Canadian citizens similar to the CCP (Chinese Communist Party)
What we need is a reward and incentive based system which rewards long term safe driving performance.
This current system is wrong headed and constitutionally abhorant.
More evedence of the slippery slope our Constitutional protection.
Governments job is to protect our rights not assume drivers who simply work for a living -vs- regulate and extort dollars from those who work for a living the very same dollars which find they’re opulant salaries, sift jobs and benefits packages which the average driver will never come close to receiving.
This the words of the framers,
“Government at its best is a necessary evil at its worst is an intolerable one!!!!”
Who’s kidding who???
What about when the company tells you to shut off you device in the middle of your journey
Bahahajajaja we pay the ELD providers not FMCSA
Just Canadian? Fake News, why only Canadians and not shady American. Also computer remembers everything without judgement. So when it is reported on main stream media, better vetting is required.
The new laws affect all of us the problem is the enforcement of unrealistic laws .More pay more qualified drivers more time home.Dispatchers , shippers,manufacturers all go home.Where is the driver
Want to eliminate the fraud and abuse? Fix the HOS so that truckers can make a decent living while staying compliant.
ELDs are NOT the problem: The rigid “one size fits all” HOS regs are.
So right but dudes who can’t add are working so cheep I see ltl at 30 cpm sometimes
If I ever meet a dude putting a couple skids going 2500 miles on his truck for 500 I’m going to prison
If the stupid government would just let the truckers do their job . Things might not be so hard on the drivers and the industry . The truckers already don’t get enough credit for the sacrifices they already deal with to supply the people that don’t appreciate what the truckers deal with . All people do is bitch and complain about how they want things . The truckers been getting screwed for years anyway . Now the FMCSA thinks truckers need babysitters . I don’t like the way the industry is going .
My understanding of the HOS on paper was that it was a federal document that only the driver could mess with, but now with the ELD’s some carriers giving themselves the luxury to edit however and whenever convenient. And I know the feds know about this, but they pretend to be innocent of the fact. But it was the driver committing such a crime, we’d be in jail. As they say, money talks and walks too, and that’s what most truck drivers don’t have $$$$$$ now at days.
Ya know why we were forced to go to elds……. Cause people couldn’t be honest on there paper logs. Ya know why we had to go to paper logs….. Cause people just couldn’t be realistic and use common sense. If every one would just quit gaming it and be professional about it, they wouldn’t have cause to put more regulations that we would be “forced” to side step. Just grow up.
If you don’t like the job and the rules….go get a different one. It’s that simple.
If we don’t stop the abuse next what ??? new people this is their future different but same work hard for others to manipulate your way
If we don’t get together and protect nothing new going to happen same Bull . controller it’s what it’s
Tyrannical government
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Too bad I still run a pre 2000.
Have fun with Big Brother.
Morons and more morons.
The ELD Mandate changed nothing but the crash rate. It increased.
To avoid the mandate all you need is the following:
an ELD provider.
You pay for and obtain 5 separate accounts.
You have 5 different login/ user accounts.
You use 1 account until it is full..
You logout.
You go to another account.
You log in.
You now have 70 fresh hours.
You morons tell me what this mandate changed???
Nothing, except increasing the price of logbooks.
Thank you.
Ronnie Broyles
Two things:
1. Virtually every single rule we, as drivers/OOs, have to deal with, is there because someone tried to get around some other rule. It’s a perpetual, self-escalating process, and it will cripple the industry.
2. If, God forbid, you’re ever in any way involved in a fatality accident, those false or missing logs will cost you and your company millions of dollars. I’ve been driving trucks since 1977 and yeah, I’ve done some shady schitte, but in these days of hyper-litigation you cannot afford to be non-compliant. Protect yourself, your business, and your compamy.
It wouldn’t even take a full strike. Just stop making deliveries to within 50-100 miles of: New York and Washington D.C. Within a week, they’d be at their knees!
New law
All drivers accident and violation free for 5 years no logs required. How hard would drivers work to keep this privelage?
CORONAVIRUS TO ALL SNITCHES
Lmao!!!
Amen
The FMCSA is an absolute fraud in itself. Some of the items on our saftey score are absolute. Garbage, I’ve proven it and there is no way to force a correction. Maybe the fmcsa should clean up and train its enforcement base which is effecting tons more people than a few carriers stupid enough to engage in falsifying logs. And it is stupid for a carrier to do it but the fmcsa is doing more harm to trucking than anyone. Mega lawsuits and carruer closings are the result.
Such a joke to say it’s about safety
If fmcsa was concerned about safety it would be a felony for anyone to issue a CDL to someone that doesn’t speak and read English
hahahahahahaha so true!
This is crazy calling someone a “snitch.” He found a flaw in the system and reported it. How do things get better with the mentality such as snitching! If the wheel needs oiled say so! He is entitled to do what HE needs with the info.