While the DOT isn’t generally known for being exactly speedy when it comes to instituting useful regulation, it appears that some people are getting fed up with their inability to produce a driver training rule. And since the rule is over 20 years past its deadline, it should come as no surprise that the DOT and FMCSA are being hit with a lawsuit.
Filed late last week, the lawsuit was brought by the Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, and Citizens for Reliable and Safe Highways (CRASH).
In 1991 Congress ordered the DOT to come up with a rule that would regulate entry-level driver training, a safety measure that other groups –including OOIDA– have been calling for recently.
According to the lawsuit, the DOT is more than 20 years late for its 1993 deadline. In response, the FMCSA noted that it had issued a rule in 2004 that “implements entry-level driver training that includes behind-the-wheel instruction for operating large trucks and buses.”
Even if the 2004 rule can be counted as the rule that Congress requested back in 1993, the FMCSA has still missed a second deadline set in the 2012 MAP-21 act. And not only have they missed the October 2013 deadline, but according to the lawsuit, they still haven’t even started the rulemaking process.
The plaintiffs in the suit want the court to order the DOT to come up with a proposed rule within 60 days of a court ruling and then to issue a final rule within four months after the proposed rule is published.
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Source: overdrive
Cliff Downing says
Many other trade and labor unions establish standards for training and certification, but the Teamsters want to go crying to government. I sure don’t see them enforcing certain driver standards within their own organization. Nor do I see them carrying the torch and leading the charge by drawing up minimum driver training standards and putting them out there for schools and carriers to pick up on. Nope, just make Faustian deals with those that can’t stand trucks and drivers, and get people in cubicles in government to make standards that are not based on anything remotely applicable to the real world.
Steve N says
Has nothing to do with the teamsters, but I’ll take my higher pay, and better benefits, thank you.
Sharps says
How can it not have anything to do with Teamsters? They are a party to the suit, and they have claimed for years to be “North America’s Strongest Union”. They also “perform vital tasks in in such areas as pension management, safety & health, community outreach, governmental affairs and communications.” Seems this would be right up their alley. Just my $.02, your actual mileage may differ…
Tim says
Absolutely correct: it was the International Brotherhood of Teamsters that was listed in the article as a co-filer, not the teamsters.
Steve Joramo says
Interesting, problem is it will be thrown out of court. You can’t sue the government, period. Jesse Ventura found that out when he sued the Homeland Security as he is on a no fly list.
Steve Bangs says
When did more government regulation make anything better?
Joe Skeptical says
For government, they often do.
Jude Ossowski says
There was that time they … no wait, that didn’t work. They did that thing with …Nope, failed there, too. Then they said … No, that was a lie, too. Remember …? No, that was just another tax increase. Let me get back to you in a few years after more research.
John S says
Another example of why government regulations do not work. They are so inefficient at making these regulations in a timely and effective manor that you wonder why any intelligent body cannot make these decisions in months not years? The trouble with any regulation is that it never focuses on the realities but only on special interest input and lobbyists. We all know schools are not equipped or required to produce a quality driver. Only to give basics on training and behind the wheel experience. Its given them basic skills to navigate ideal situations. Not real world weather, customers with tight dock locations, or other developed skills. Are schools supposed to do this? Or is the weakness in companies not providing the added training with a experienced driver?
Paula says
Manor? Manner!!
You say you don’t want the govt to make rules, but you say drivers are incapable of learning properly. What to do???
I think they should have to have 2 weeks of school, 1 week locally on the road, then a test from a DOT person. Then get 2 or more weeks over the road till the seasoned driver thinks they’re ready. A month if necessary. And the seasoned driver needs to have 5 years at least.
Jude Ossowski says
We are talking about the federal government and you ask why “any intelligent body cannot make these decisions”. See the problem? We aren’t talking about an “intelligent body”. We are talking about an bunch of pandering bureaucrats.
Paula, “2 weeks of school, 1 week locally on the road, then a test from a DOT person”. I spent almost two years as an instructor at a driving school that had a program set up on an eight week schedule. We had students meet the minimum qualifications for graduation who made me want to give up my license out of fear for my own safety. The three weeks you propose would NEVER be enough time.
charleydan says
Back when you got to drive because some one recommended you. They took personal interest in your driving learning and made sure of your attitude, also. Today, you go to school and they come out with a chip on their shoulder. Teamsters so interested in driving school education? Why do they not have one of their own to make sure their drivers meet qualifications that are a step higher then the industry. Not only abilities but personality wise. Hmmmmm…..The turn over rate in this industry does not allow even companies to offer driver education of top quality as they quit before graduation or shortly there after. Catch 22? and few companies have figured it out, but so few….
Geo says
TDDS in Lake Milton is a high quality school operating on a shoe string but manages to get old timers to come in off of retirement to show and share the wisdom of millions of miles on the road.
For me who paid the 6000.00 out of my pocket and went through the classroom then the outdoor course in both day and night plus on road training just before and during winter, I learned what a newer driver should know starting out as I look back now.
They are DOT certified and so are most of the instructors. If there was a model to base a school after, TDDS would be a good school.
With that written and out of the way, there was a huge amount of things they couldn’t teach or instruct me on. Namely what it is like to try and find the shipper down a safe route, where to park when you get there and how to act.
They don’t tell a new guy how long he will wait in a dock or what to do when he has 20 minutes left to drive on an E Log and not to leave it up to those damn dispatchers.
Are we all still waiting on those people that we hire to represent us in Washington to do something to actually help?
Well that’s the reason we are in the hot mess we’re in now isn’t it?!
Drivers need to be taught, screened and put through the fire by drivers, old drivers. Not a bureaucratic process where compromises are made.
Zero tolerance boys and girls. Truck driving is a grownup job. It’s not for every one. The drivers that go out and do it right are amazing and talented human beings.
There is a shortage of those type of people all over the world, no need trying to convert some useless pos that doesn’t pass muster… Including government officials.
Maybe they ought to be drill instructors teaching the driver courses. At least then those that can’t, won’t pass. They will just be dropped.
Oh and before I end this rant, don’t forget about driver fitness and staying healthy and ready to do the mental task of driving. That’s a biggy.
Be safe, stay proud, and live free.
Ray says
Training definitely needs to be regulated, but the suit means nothing if it doesn’t specify the improvements needed. Simply asking for more regulation reminds me of the phrase “Be careful what you wish for. “
G. Man says
Let’s set these standards accordingly to the 34 hour restart provisions, HOS operations.
Roadghost says
If it’s not regulated by now, it’s because nobody wants it regulated. They’re happy having improperly trained people driving 40 ton rigs down the road, as long as they work for cheap, which they do. There will have to be one whopper of a fine set against regulators before they will take action.
Joe Skeptical says
Comment of the day.
Jude Ossowski says
I agree with Joe.
A “whopper of a fine” levied against a federal agency by another federal agency? How would that work? “Physician, heal thyself.”
Bill Mortlock says
The Federal D.O.T has ALWAYS been late for the party where TRUE common senseis concerned. Except when the “Special Interests” (I.e.large political supporters) want a “Favor”.
In my opinion, there are so-called “Schools” that are nothing more than driver mills whose soul purpose is to push out cut-rate “qualified” drivers that shouldn’t be on a loading dock, let alone behind the wheel in control of 80,000 lbs. !!!
Some companies having a “Lease/purchase” program are more concerned with getting these neophyte “newbies” into a contract than they are with their driving abilities. Repossession rates are HIGH since these companies tend to “Starve out” most in the later portion of the contracts & resell the truck AGAIN.
To me, theses are TWO problems I’m convinced are a much LARGER problem for safety in our industry.
stephen says
It’s a very simple process that can be modeled after the old apprenticeship system.
Set the standards and minimum skill requirements, including minimum mile logged for each step with a compensatory agreement for meeting those minimums as well as demonstrating the needed skills.
Bring back the apprentice, journeyman and master craftsman skill levels with the accompanying pay with it.
We don’t have to have equal pay at each employer, simply acknowledgement of the acquired level.
The first place to start is setting these standards (by DOT) for the ‘training’ companies.
Why the government? Because they are the ones paying these companies for each ‘student’ they put thru their program. Instead of simply cutting a check because a student has completed that company’s self directed program, set standards for which the student must demonstrate an acquired skill before turning over the money.
Each type of driving will have different skills. A flatbedder won’t need to know how to set temperatures and maintain temperature control over a load, but then a dry van driver won’t need to know what kind of straps and how to use binders for his load.
And as a driver acquires those skills, let him hold a DOT card that shows he’s met those minimums. A potential employer need only see his card to know he isn’t slinging bull.
Is it perfect? Of course not…but it’s a start.
Joe Skeptical says
Who will pay for all this?
Kevin says
I will, and you will and so will everyone else. We are paying for these unskilled drivers now why not pay for skilled ones
denny says
Ok in regards to your statement of securement of loads since 2010 all dry van and flat bed drivers have to go through a load securement course. there was changes made that drivers in them 2 types of catagories have to have the course in order to haul loads. i know this cause i made the switch from runnin reefer trailers to pulling flatbed. and there was dry van and house hold goods drivers in the course i took getting their load securement qualification.
Russ says
I Been reading the comments , and I’d have to say. Trying to improve the trucking industry gets harder by the day. You have new FMCSA and DOT regulations. Now they want the training program. In fact I’m for the on the job training for new drivers. Or even for those who are returning after being out of it for awhile. Companies want experience but, how in the hell can you get 2 years experience? When nobody is willing to help you get it !! So we complain about not having enough experience once out of truck driving school. That’s not our fault cause the school only does 3-4 weeks of training.
If you wanna solve this issue give the on the job training. It will better prepare the new or former drivers better. I’d say stay with the driver for one full season of training.. Hire trainers that have a minimum of 5 years over the road with all types of experience. Put the driver with a mentor and let them show them the correct way of being a good driver.
Show them the correct way to back and do wolfs if equipped with. Show the new drivers how to be prepared for unexpected road conditioned and how to be prepared for dot checks. And to learn back in all different docks. The bottom line here is teach them the correct way. And help the new drivers with there weak spots. I know it would work and companies will have a better out come…the bottom line is on the job training with a company and stay with the driver till the trainer feels they are ready to solo drive.
Joe Skeptical says
It’s minimum wage work, Russ. Your ideas are wonderful and they’re a fantasy. Minimum wage attracts zero skill & experience and if after all the stuff you suggest, a driver’s pay is only going to increase about 10% – which could take years – very few stay.
Big companies let a “lease” driver make more, simply taking away employee benefits and putting the money into the driver’s pocket. No worker’s compensation coverage and no medical insurance, as a contractor, who also pays for MPGs under the company requirement, + repairs, tires, brakes etc.
O/Os are limited; big companies will shut out any significant growth in the O/O market because O/Os can’t deposit lots of empty trailers at consignees/shippers and can’t coordinate re-powers. Big companies will simply drop the price to keep O/Os away, the reason so many big trucking companies have grown so large. Driver pay is minimum wage and freight rates are $2-3 sometimes $5 per mile! A 1,500 mile load at $2.50 – shipper pays $3,750 in freight – earns the driver about $700, all employee costs included. Fuel is about $650-700 and no matter how much equipment and maintenance cost you apply, it’s easy to see how the big company makes AT LEAST $1,000 PROFIT on this load. That undercuts an O/O all day long.
Anybody pushing a Kwhopper W900 willing to do a 1,500 mile reefer load for $2,600? I didn’t think so, not even close.
Joe Skeptical says
A training standard means CDL-A drivers would not be unskilled labor like lettuce pickers, McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. The exemption from the minimum wage rules is threatened.
2,500 miles x 35¢ per = $875 for 50 hours of driving, at least another 30 at shipper/consignee docks plus 15 more for PTI, fueling, drop & hook, etc. That’s 95 hours and at federal minimum wage, a driver earns $888
If a training rule is established, minimum wage for 90-100 hour workweeks, sometimes 2 months from home, will attract few takers.
CharHar says
I came late to this party. Didn’t get a CDL untill I was 58.
A little research showed there is a way to hire in with a top tier company, right out of school.
But not any school. I did eight weeks with at a Community College in a Professional Truck Drivers Institute (whoever they are) certified program. Got hired, company training for eight more weeks with fixed pay. My starting CpM was equal to most at 3 years experience. With less than three years, I’m in a new truck and earning more than what is offered company drivers on billboard and trailer doors.
All that to say this; there are other training models out there. The flood of three week wonders saturates the market with low pay jobs.
Truckin Charlie says
All I can say is… It’s about freakin’ time!! I’ve been a driver-trainer with one of the large logistic companies for the last three years and I can tell you “first hand” the lack of regulation and the adjustments to the “minimum standards” in these “so-called” driver training institutions is long overdue. Out of the hundreds of potential drivers that have trained in my truck, less than 40% have gone on to what the industry calls “first-seat” status. A vast majority are grossly undertrained or simply don’t have the capability to operate an articulated commercial motor vehicle safely and with competence. This stems mostly from the schools or institutions that they went to for initial training – but yet, they were still able to qualify for their CDL. That doesn’t make someone a professional driver. This is a two part problem. The first part is the “In-House” corporate training programs are not much better at preparing drivers to do the job of an experienced professional driver. In many cases (as it is in the company I work for) these “trainees” are often used as nothing more than a way for the trainer to get more miles and skirt the new hours of duty service rules by having a licensed partner riding shotgun. The level of training is inferior or in some cases – simply non-existent. It’s my opinion that the company trainer’s position should be limited to the evaluation of a potential driver trainee’s skills and abilities and instructing them in the requirements of the company they work for. Most company trainers are not qualified to instruct trainees how to drive and competently instruct in the hours of duty service rules and DOT regulations. Most trainers don’t even know themselves. The second problem is that there is no “grace period” or probation period for new in-coming driver trainees. They are subjected to the full weight of the DOT regulations and CSA scores right out of the box. The trucking industry is the “only” one that does this. In other service professions trainees must often go through literally years of training, schooling and complete thousands of hours of “on the job” training before they are certified in their prospective professions. Would you want your house wired by an electrician trainee with less than a month of actual experience? But yet, we allow a driver trainee with often less than two months of actual “behind the wheel” experience to operate an 80,000 lb rolling battering ram at 65 miles per hour on our crowded highways and expect them to operate that vehicle at the same level of competence as a veteran driver with 25 years experience. This is a recipe for failure more often then not. The DOT has regulated the industry at the top (companies) and at the bottom (drivers) but they have done next to nothing at regulating the middle (the logistics training institutions and in-house training programs) and this is where many of the problems with undertrained drivers stems from. Perhaps more regulation isn’t the answer but we’ve got to start somewhere otherwise nothing will change. What it all boils down to is that you can’t regulate irresponsible behavior. If a driver does not care about following regulations then all the rules in the world won’t matter. If they are not trained properly to start with then who’s fault is that? You get what you pay for!!!
Flower child says
Government ONLY KILLS BUSINESS!
Isaac says
I am a driver instructor for a major LTL carrier and I’ve noticed most of the truck driving schools out there “train” about five students at a time and companies will make pretty much anybody a driver trainer, even without experience. A really good training would be one to one education on yard and street driving, at least for five weeks. Experience will come with time, but a unexperienced driver should not be thrown out there with out any idea of what he or she is doing. There should be always one education and other certifying. Major carrriers and truck driving schools train and certify (they are third party examiners), how can you expect them to fail those green students if they just paid them a couple thousand dollars for that training? At least for the company I work for, we educate students and take them to the DMV for the road test after they passed our training.
todd says
well the thing about a training rule would really help..we already have enough so called schools that will gladly give a cdl to ANYONE that can come up with the enrollment fees, no matter if they can read/understand basic english, drive, pay attention, or even simply back into a parking space at a truck stop without ripping fenders, mirrows and doors off anothers truck…the end result is just like my last trip out..going down the road at 70 mph, in the dark, no moon, i come upon a curve, a truck sitting on the shoulder on the inside of the curve further limiting my visibility…a 20 something year old fresh out of driver school *driver*, with very limited understanding of the english language has, after running several drivers off the road due to swerving all over the place while texting/sleeping/whatever, for 3-4 miles, lost control of his rig, rolled it in the road, completely covering both lanes, the sideditch and the median strip…as rounding the curve i see the bottom of the truck, which has been painted flat black, about 150 feet in front of me..being unable to completely stop, and no where else to go, i hit the trailers bottom side at around 20-25 mph as could not stop in so short a distance…after getting out, i see the driver of the rolled truck sitting beside it, cross legged, hands on his knees, palms up, crying, praying to his god, meditating, whatever, instead of running up the road and trying to flag other motorists of the danger ahead…same with the driver that was sitting on the side of the road, with no cb radio to warn others with, who pulled there after seeing the swerving truck coming up behind him…just sit and watch..too bad i saw the overturned truck or he might have gotten to see me hit it at 70 mph, which surely would have been more exciting….driver training standards ?…righto, thats sure to help….what a joke trucking has become
Chris S says
‘instead of getting up and flagging down traffic to warn them’ your kidding right? You are either insensitive or oneothemthere super truckers. All due respect HE JUST ROLLED A TRUCK AND IS LUCKY to be alive. Yes he’s probably at fault for the wreck but he’s still shaken, traumatized and possibly injured. And then to top it off you blame him for your own inability to avoid another wreck. My father called those types of things, the blind leading the blind.
Kaye says
Well, I WAS wanting to go to truck driving school. I am a female, 58, and reading some of these post is scaring the bejeeze out of me. I am currently on unemployment until mid December. I wanted to go to the school in Shreveport and they train fo 5 months, and that wont work. Thought about going with PAM but I see some say training isnt good and is only for 3 weeks and trainers dont have much experience themselves. I think the Workforce might help with my training. Also thought about Prime out of Missouri. But got to see if Workforce will pay out of the state of Louisiana or Texas for schooling. Any info will be appreciated. I need some on schools. I am an easy going ole broad, I dont have a mean temper (as in getting angry at dispatchers, ect.) or the trainers…at least I hope I can handle it all!
Chris S says
Most people seem to be focusing their comments on the driving schools and missing a point of further education is the key to focus on. Take the military as a prime example. You join the Navy with a opspec for nuclear radar submariner. You ONLY go to basic training for 6 to 8 weeks of just that, BASIC training. Then you go to primary school for up to 3 years. You get the basic training from basic training, just the primary knowledge of military history and conduct. You are then trained by senior officers to do your job. But even then you are not fully qualified in your field until you demonstrate your skills under observation when transferred to a duty station ie the sub. Driving school is no different. You are taught the basics, it then falls to the company you go to work for to continue that education under qualified persons. Yes training schools need stronger minimum guidelines, but the companies need to start taking responsibility for providing higher training programs. But that’s not cost effective. To end this again I say schools are just that, a starting point for the basic education of a driver, the company is the ones that need to step up and step in to the training of skilled and qualified drivers.