On what the ATA is calling “a historic day” for the trucking industry, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) has published their final rule mandating that truckers must switch from paper logs to Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs).
Many in the industry are already using ELDs (also known as Electronic Onboard Recorders or EOBRs), but those who aren’t will have to make the switch by December 10th, 2017 – two years after the initial publishing date.
The extremely hot-button issue has been debated back and forth for years and this is not the first time the FMCSA has tried to force carriers and drivers to make the switch. In 2011 OOIDA was able to challenge a previous ELD mandate in court and managed to get it overturned. Then another ELD mandate was tossed out in 2012 because it failed to protect drivers against harassment.
Some opponents of ELDs claim that they invade drivers privacy, are an additional unnecessary cost, and make it too easy for drivers to be harassed or pressured into driving up until they have completely run out of hours despite feeling ill, tired, or otherwise unable to drive safely.
Furthermore, some groups claim that while ELDs have been implemented in the name of increased safety, there isn’t sufficient data that shows that they prevent crashes, and in some cases the data actually shows the opposite.
Other groups including the ATA have praised the FMCSA for publishing the mandate, saying that it “brings logging records into the modern age” and “allows roadside safety inspectors to unmask violations of federal law that put lives at risk.”
The FMCSA claims that using ELDs could save an average of 26 lives and prevent over 1,800 crashes annually.
The new rule will apply to the vast majority of truckers, but will not apply to those who drive rigs built before the year 2000.
It also specifies that in order to qualify as an agency-approved ELD, the device must meet certain minimums including being able to automatically record date, time and location information, engine hours, vehicle miles, and driver ID information. Though many ELDs do track vehicles and drivers in real time, the FMCSA notes that that is not a required feature.
Source: fleetowner, overdrive, truckinginfo, truckinginfo, iotevolutionworld, joc, prnewswire, logisticsmgmt
How will they prevent accidents? What you have now is a real 14 hour clock wich will make drivers drive faster nor take naps when they know they should. I have seen these happy go lucky ELD drivers who claim it saves them time but the reality is there just to lazy to do a log book. They come into the Truck stop in a hurry they run up against the 14 trying to beat that clock. End result stress and just dead tired. They all claim they love it but looking at them they look worn out. Truck driver death has gone up over 700. Watch deaths and accidents sky rocket. This the most unsafe mandate the government has put threw without looking at the affects of the hos rules. This rule is deadly.
So, it’s not going to be easy to cheat?
Easy reap of.
Respectfully, you are way off base. I have electronic logs and love them. How do I get ‘worn out’? There are MANY factors for’ looking’ worn out. The OBDR (or ELD as they’re calling it here) is a time saver, prevents log falsification, prevents mistakes, prevents carriers from pushing their drivers beyond legal limits, and when you add the navigation many have, it takes away so much stress. So, tell me again how less stress, no mistakes, not being pushed and saving time makes us ‘worn out’?
Simple fact, only TWO types of drivers do NOT like electronic logs:
1. Unsafe, log-falsifying selfish better-than-everyone-else ‘super-truckers’ who put their bonus or butt kissing ahead of safety and laws, and:
2. Old truckers who still use a flip-phone (if they even HAVE a cell phone to begin with) and refuse to acknowledge it is the year 2015 and it’s time to come into the present day.
Which one are you?
Hey, flip phones are “in” again. But I’m with you ON EOBR’S I find it stops dispatch from pushing drivers, and road side inspections are a breeze
It pushes me to drive in 14 hour activity block, from whenever I start, I want freedom not ruling
Dude.. really???? I have e logs. And let me tell u something… I have never fault so rushed ever before. I took my time when I was on paper. Now I feel I’m always in a race with time. Not only that…if u start ur 10hr off duty break and u move the truck not even 1 Mike and going 20mph the logs reset. I know this cuz it happend to me. I was told I had to move the truck in the yard and my clock reset. I had to start my clock all over again.. and there’s no one to help me with that after hours.
It put me late to my delivery time and not only that I drove 8hrs with out stopping. I needed to get fuel but I didn’t want to get into trouble by being even more later then I was. So I took the chance..I made it there right at 1pm which was the rescheduled time… my fuel was on. ( E).. if I was on paper none of this would of happend. So u have no clue what u are talking about. I am drained…like I said feel rushed. No time for nothing. WOW What A LIFE!!!!!!!!!..
NYVET just make fun of us. He is a Swift or Schneider driver($600 salary /week) or someone from FMCSA. A real driver know what you are talking about. You are right. Even if they pay triple the ELD do not help for safety. Period
What a d#@k ..your assumptions show a complete lack of intelligence and you are perfect as a govt sheep …the HOS rules are another fine example of govt taking control of an industry and making it better ..and ‘safer’ ..like they have done w health care, the VA, the IRS, the EPA ..etc …any idiot knows when he/she is fatigued …and drivers certainly do NOT need the govt dictating to us when we can and cannot drive ..the only thing HOS rules prevent is free commerce ..and they certainly increase govt control over free exercise of earning ability ..
..you probably love paying higher taxes too ..
I’ve been driving now for 25 years, approx 3 million miles. Paper logs most of my career. I work for a company now that uses PeopleNet.
You say that companies don’t push, I say BS!
Everyday I’m dispatched to the last minute that I can legally work. Everyday I get exactly 10 hours off between shifts and only get a 34 on the weekend. YES they do push! ELD’s are for new schoolers who can’t do paper logs and say NO when they are our of hours.
Yes, I have falsified my logs. I still can with the ELD. I have falsified my logs in order to take that needed nap when I feel I need to and not when the government says I need one.
ELD’s allow you to make manual changes. I may have driven for 10 or 15 minutes before the system ask to make an automatic change to driving, I simply click the change button and do it myself manually and the change takes effetct at that time not when the truck started to roll.
ELD’s are not any safer than a paperlog. We will see the same problem drivers no matter how you try to control them on the road.
Good day.
true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Been Trucking since 1977, seen it, done it, don’t use a flip phone, most annoying thing on the road is a amateur truck driver behind the wheel, people net for six years, glad to see it go. Hope to sell out and retire before this profession gets any sillier.
I like to address the comments on E.L.D.. I have a husband that has been a OTR driver for several years okay. He’s a very safe driver and does his very best at his job. There has been many times when he has left early so he can get thru the regular heavy traffic in some towns and/or cities. You can’t guarantee that there won’t be any accidents out there on the road, right? Right. Say you are on the way to make your delivery and a long backup appears due to a wreck with fatalities that lasts maybe 3 hours because of removing of bodies and cleanup; you’ve already driven 7 hours of your time and the 3 hours knocks it down to that you have only 1 hour left to drive and then you run into another backup due to construction. You sit in that backup for about 1 hour and you can only have 11 hours on your driving , so what are you suppose to do just stop there in the middle of the highway and shut down for 10 hours to keep from getting a ticket for being over on your driving time, I just don’t think so. If so then you would get a ticket for parking on the highway. I say this folks I have heard more of the regular drivers having and causing accidents than I do the big trucks. People blames it on the truckers when there’s an accident involving a smaller vehicle but they don’t stop to consider what the small vehicle done to cause the wreck. I’ve rode in the truck with my husband and seen cars/trucks that comes around him like in a hurry and get in front of him and slammed on the brakes just to see what he would do. That is just sooooo wrong but it’s blamed on the truckers. Leave the truckers ALONE!!!!! They know what their bodies can handle and how far they can drive safely, so let them do their jobs so you folks can have your merchandise you want, hello!!!! Thanks
That comment has no validity and really was unnecessary,but I understand ; you’re just one guy with an opinion.
EOBRS do not stop logbook falsification. I’ll prove it. When you get to a customer, do you log every minute you are there as ON DUTY NOT DRIVING? The fact is, by FMCSA regs, unless the carrier and customer release you from duty, YOU ARE ON DUTY NOT DRIVING while on the customer’s property. Every time you let the EOBR go to sleeper berth or off duty while at the customer you are falsifying your HOS. Every time you leave it as off duty or sleeper berth and idle through the yard or truck stop, you are falsifying your HOS. So get off your high horse. I’ll also mention this. A pretrip/post trip requires the driver to open the hood. Notice how once a truck gets an EOBR the hood stays closed. So how did they mark the pretrip/post trip on the EOBR. OH, I get it, since it is marked electronically, it’s legal. BS!
EOBRs are about compliance not safety. No EOBR can verify a driver is resting for 10 hours. It just knows the truck isn’t moving down the road. For my specific situation, an EOBR does nothing for me. I have a 0 PSP score – no accidents, no citations, no HOS violations. I know how to keep in compliance. Thank God my truck is a 1999 and I’m exempt from the mandate because I don’t need an electronic devise to show me how to log my HOS.
I’m trying to figure out how you make any money while hemorrhaging your 70 while sitting at a customer.
If people did that they would be lucky if they were able to drive 1500 miles a week before they ran out of time.
I have a feeling your a driver who had very limited experience in the industry. Maybe you went in with that mentality and figured out right quick it would never work and quit or got fired?
I’ve been doing this for 25 years and you’re trying to tell me it’s safer to drive right straight through a town and traffic jam just because that computer tells you to instead of taking a nap for 2 hours to let traffic chill out so you can keep on going you’re an idiot or a company driver you’ve never paid for a truck or had to pay for the insurance or anything else
Damn straight!
You know, been driving for 23 yrs, never had a lot book violation. Don’t have cheat, drivers don’t need to cheat.
If it saves you so much , why do brokers give you guys 2 extra days to get any where.
Between speed limiter, and LED you need 5 days to get anywhere.
I can drive more miles in 10 hours that you can drive in 11 hours.
I average 7800 in 2 weeks and I am home every 5th day for a 34 at least.
I have run a electronic log, do not need that much supervision.
You must be on a dedicated run and probably is set up with ELD in mine, some of us are not that lucky our runs are not designed that way but I’m happy for you thank you
Not entirely true. The reason we object is there is more to fix the serious problems that are not being addressed. Such as safe and habitable parking. Parking needs include food, showers and facilities. For those of us who ARE professionals and choose to live like actual humans and not hyenas. Also not addressed is the reality for compensation when we are detained at a customer. We have appointments. They should have that load picked and pulled and ready to load when we bump that dock. They should be ready to yank that load off and count it. These customers need to recognize this is extremely unacceptable and costly to us drivers, these same customers who deduct 500 dollars from our settlement if we are a minute late. These same customers who burn through the hours we have and cause us to run out of hours then tell us we have to leave and cannot park at their facilities. These are just a small fraction of the points not being addressed. I prefer my paper logs because if I am audited at any time I do not need to print out 7 years of log sheets which will be the case. I would tell you even more, but seeing how drawing an accurate line on a piece of paper is too difficult for you…seeing how huge companies operate on a more frequent drop and hook base giving their drivers 3 days to drive 900 miles. Your opinion does not fit into your one size fits all business model. The ATA is as far as being American as you can get.
One more thing I’d like to address, and that’s the ‘most dangerous rule’ the FMCSA had come out with. Again, I must disagree. The stupid 30-minute rest break takes that title.
They want to give exemptions to ‘local’ drivers. That’s backwards. LOCAL drivers are the ones who are always tired. I was local for 6 years and was wiped out every day, all day, and seldom got enough sleep. A local driver gets up, drives to work, puts in a full day, drives home, spends time with the wife and kids, fixes stuff around the house, gotta to a ball game or dance recital, eats dinner with the family, takes a shower, gets A FEW hours sleep, and starts all over again the next day, tired within 2 to 4 hours of coming on duty behind the wheel of an 80,000 truck. THEY NEED the 30, min break if anyone does. But OTR? We wake up, get dressed, climb behind the wheel and put in our day, refreshed all day because at the END of OUR day, we simply take a shower (well, some of us do anyway) and go to bed! No commute, none of the other honey-do stuff of the local driver, and all that 30 min break does for us is make us look for a place to park, taking up a spot that a driver needing to take his 10-hours is looking for.
This fell on deaf ears of course, but it’s real. They now have all of us looking for parking TWICE in a day, and the spot I take for my stupid half hour break could be the only one left, forcing someone to continue onto the next rest area, perhaps over his hours and too tired to safely drive anymore, and we all know how many miles can be in between rest areas.
So keeping drivers from falsifying logs and being pressured by their companies is certainly not unsafe, but keeping drivers from finding parking IS.
100% true. Local driving is a hell.
Now the over the roads with new regulations same bad. Why they changed hos if not mistaken in 2002?
Couldn’t agree more.
Pencil pushers once again setting rules for the ones doing the work. Judging us at late by the standards of few by the ridiculous rules they implement with totally misguided information.
THE BLOOD WILL BE ON THEIR HANDS.
I agree..this is dangerous..teaching the public truck capabilities is saving lives. Many will cut or stop in front of trucks. This rule forces more on drivers,will become an even bigger insurance problem.
before 2000??just make the used truck market a gold mine
Except you have to have owned it prior to for so long.
No different than the sleep thing and having a 17 inch neck, can not hold a cell phone, it is a form of gps tracking a driver just wothout ising the gps device.
Its nothing but a control efforet bt LE and Dot and trucks are always the first ginny pigs before the rest of the country falls victom to those that have nothing else to do but control wveryone elses lives. Hope rates go through the roof when this happens..
WOW…YOU ARE RIGHT ON.
We have always been the countries guinea pigs…and they too will fall victim but they are such willing cattle led to the slaughter.
And rates I agree will skyrocket… unfortunately, NOT OUR WAGES, WE’LL BE PAYING FOR THESE PIECES OF CRAP.
I’m on paper logs now, but I used electronic logs for about 1.5 years. I actually like the electronic logs because it is much faster to push a button than to draw lines and fill out the log book each day. I’m looking forward to getting electronic logs again. If you like to drive more than 11 hours a day then you wouldn’t like the electronic logs.
I have been on E-logs, loose leaf paper logs, and now I use the Keep Trucking app on my phone. After being on E-logs for 2 years I hated going back to paper logs! Then I found the Keep Trucking app I hope I don’t have to go back to paper or E-logs.
I’m home every weekend and there is no way I’m gonna sit down the road 2 hrs away for 10 hrs to get home. We do a lot of Michigan and I’m 7 hrs from there. I’m not sitting and getting home Saturday afternoon kiss my ass DOT!!!! Currently I can avoid rush hour many times by fudging lol but now it’s forcing you to it. Instead of constantly targeting trucks for safer highways when are they gonna go after these morons in cars????
In closing this is gonna hurt the industry hands down. You don’t see it right now because it’s not in all trucks.
It is positions taken such as yours that has the general public putting truck drivers in their crosshairs.
You may not have to. If you’re not under a load, you can get off duty driving time to go home.
Not every company uses it, though. Werner does (or did), but JB does not. However, if you own your own rig, I think most companies will let you use it.
The term you are searching for is “Personal Conveyance” and cannot be used when pulling a trailer. It can only be used bobtailing. And PC must start/stop at the same point. Meaning, you can’t stop at Wally World, drop a trailer, bobtail home under PC, take the night off then PC to a different location to pick up another trailer the next day. Read the rules, understand the rules and embrace the suck. PC was written for the local yokal who takes his truck home from the yard everyday, not for the OTR driver.
Actually it states that you cannot be under a load. There is nothing that says you can’t have a trailer behind you. It just can’t be loaded and you can’t be under dispatch
If it’s my trailer I can use personal conveyance that’s mine
You cannot use off-duty driving time if you are pulling a trailer loaded or empty
Yes you can, I do it all the time. The rule states not under load or dispatch. Nothing is mentioned about the trailer.
The off duty drive time is only if you are released from your home terminal. You can’t just use it whenever you want. DOT makes sure of that. Also you have to be bobtail.
You need to read your DOT regulations it says nothing about bobtail it says safe and prudent distance it doesn’t even give a total distance so you need to read your. The regs a little better
bobtail using personal conveyance
There are alot of my brother truckers that are on there game.Most abide by the laws and still make it home on weekends. Most that don’t it;s becfause the company they drive for only care about the all mighty dollar. Therre are laws to help keep the roads safe. Yes there are some idiot drivers in cars that don’t show truckers the respect but guess what they don’t show motorcycles any respect also. Truckers that fudge books and run like outlaws are the few that cause people to die for no reason.
Wrong buddy, I outlawed for years & still driving. Got my CDL in 1963 & have a perfect driving record & never had an accident. I still drive 75 & 80 MPH. God is my safe heaven not DOT. Just a little common sense goes a long ways.
Amen …and I mean that seriously ..God and common sense will always get you home safe ..
Amen brother
Roy, what source are you using to make that last statement in your post. ? The one about the outlaw truckers.
Your wrong in so many ways buddy. I outlawed for years as well and am still driving with a perfect record. Common sense and knowing your limits is what keeps you safe. Not a rule book….
James well said driver. I’m not sitting either
So, you’re not going to drive anymore? If you’re 11/14 is up you’re going to just drive anyway? And risk your CDL? what if someone hits you? Or you get into a accident? Are you willing to go to jail?
Yeah man its gonna be so much fun when every truck is hitting the road at the same time! Sounds more safe to me!!
With electronic log book you have to increase the sped on the road to make miles. Do you think this is safety? ELD is for 2 category of drivers : 1) for drivers who forgot to stop and take a break or 2) for lazy drivers.
In other words, if you like running illegal and being a super-trucker, they won’t like them.
That’s not called being a super trucker that’s called being a truck driver with common sense not a pansy that just got out of truck driving school
Try running dedicated NYC with electronic logs in NYC traffic. Always gonna be in violation. Gonna have to find another job or way to beat it
Sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but that so much a problem with society in general today… everyone wants the easy fix. If drawing lines on a log is much more time consuming for you than just pushing a button, maybe you should be a cashier instead??? Jw
The Ata sucks. It is comprised of a bunch of fat cat big company owners who get together to figure out how to treat drivers like crap. It is their sole intention to put independents like me out of business. Well congratulations, this may just do it.
Initially I thought I was gonna hate eLogs. But after a few months learning how to make miles, I never looked back. Running out of hours, dispatch can’t force you to make runs. You let em know “hey I don’t have the hours to make that run” or that they’ll have to reschedule the appointment. No more running like an outlaw.
I’m on elogs now and I like it to a degree, it’ll be nice when the pay comes up to make up the difference in lost time, but when has the trucking industry ever paid what it should. Same Ol same Ol.
ELD’S would be great if they could be turned off when needing to find a place to park for your 10hr or when needing to use your truck for a quick supplies run just before or after a required break. They SUCK when used by companies whose trucks can actually be ‘shut down’ or ‘stopped’ while trying to find a place to park for your breaks.
I agree with u 100%! It’s like your a prisoner in your truck! No freedom of the open road no more! Let’s but e logs on government & insurance companies & see how long that last!!!
I would really like to know of those companies that actually have a truck “Shut down” or “Stopped” when a driver runs out of hours!! With all due respect, that sounds like hogwash because that’s way way too big of a safety liability if a driver can’t find a safe place to park when their hours are up. Would really like to research those companies if they do exist.
They don’t exist, not LEGALLY. It was rumored that Warner did this but it’s just not true, the liability as you mentioned would far outweigh any benefit, plus it is simply not LEGAL to disable a moving vehicle, the only thing they could do is prevent it from starting once it is shut off but even then ONLY if it is a stolen vehicle!
West Side transport trucks shut off. I drove for them and literally just made it into a parking space when truck was automatically shut off. Actually, there were about three feet of space that I should have occupied but couldnt because truck shut down.
they can be set to allow drivers to use them for personal business but 99.9% of the company’s will not have that option for you to use.
True. I drive for a company that will allow ‘bobtail for personal use’ for family emergency, hotel if your heat/ac breaks, or for food if stuck at a vendor etc. But you’re right, most companies won’t enable that feature.
Yes it has a “Big brother is watching you” feel. Occasionally I need to use creative logging to get an extra 15 minutes or so to finish a trip and deliver. Which is safer, someone driving up to an hour over their log limit or trying to race down the road to make a delivery before their hours expire? On a Friday that can mean 2 days and 3 nights of waiting if you shut down because of logs. On the other hand, pushing to make deliveries like that’s rare for me. Taking a 10 hour break while on a long drive sometimes makes me more drowsy than a 6-8 hour break would.
Your company CAN let you use a line five….off duty driving. All they have to do is change the program. I live in Alaska and will quit driving when Elogs are required. Driving up here is challenge enough, Elogs will make it impossible to make a living or be safe. DOT does not care. Just another way to force team driving.
You can completely log out offduty and remove log from truck so to speak, for personal use. To be legal you need to be bobtail for this. If you’re hooked to a trailer even empty should be logged in.
I’ve been using elogs as an O/O since 01/10, with no problem for the most part. We use Peoplenet. I have no trouble getting plenty of miles, 2600 – 3100 per week.
It’s called personal conveyance. You can use it too find a safe place too park. Troopers have been quoted saying they’d rather see a trucker go the extra mile too be safe rather than fall asleep behind the wheel. There are many rules with e-logs, but it’s not the end all.
That’s not true!! Where, do some of you drivers get or find your information? I drive for Crete carrier we went too elogs on all trucks about eight months ago. Now I have gone over my 11 about ten minutes…AND MY TRUCK DIDN’T SHUT DOWN OR TURN OFF. did my company call me and have a “cow” because, I went over? No I made a comment saying “due to weather and heavy traffic!” Had to find a safe haven.
I’m running a eld and it has a provision off duty driving where I may run to wall mart etc providing I am not pulling a trailer. And they do not shut down the truck, they do however notify your safety dept you are not in compliance. I run my hours each day and the little black box allows me to run legally without being pushed. If I am asked for my logbook at a scale I mention I am running a eld and they just say off you go then. 28 years trucking and I just used them for 2 months and I love it. You have to be organised though, no “gaining” 2 hours at a stroke of the pen. And lets face it, the “no evidence” they help driver safety is bullcrap, if your a trucker, you KNOW you have been forced to pull over nighters to make back lost time and driven when you are tired because the load had to be there. Well, we don’t order the crap, we don’t manufacture the crap, we don’t ship the crap, and now finally the days of it being late being our problem are coming to an end. Amen!
I’m a local driver on paper, how will this effect me?
depends are you required to use log books? if yes then they will have to install a eld.
The law reads that if your are currently using logs you will need an ELD, unless you are able to use the 100 or 150 short haul exception. Then if you are unable to use that exception for more than 8 days a month, you must have an ELD.
Thanks Cary
Oh really?
So the FMCSA mandate requires INTRAstate drivers to use ELD’s?
Good info! For those of us who drive different trucks from day to day, with some days involving different trucks for different trips on the same day, have you heard how this new rule will apply for this driving situation? Fortunately, it sounds like we have two years to figure it out.
Merry Christmas!
It’s simple, you log out of one truck, then log into the next one (and should you forget to log out of the first truck, logging in to the next one will automatically log you out of the last one, so it’s idiot proof) and it picks up right where it left off.
if you own a truck older than 2000, your exempt
Tell your boss to buy you a truck that was built before 2000 it won`t affect you at all. What a joke!
I’m glad I’m out of that racket! If I wasn’t sleeping, or taking a shower,
I was ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING.
Even at that, considering all the unpaid hours I spent sitting in loading
docks, I probably didn’t make minimum wage.
Fighting the traffic, the weather, the breakdowns, the DOT, the local cops,
the state police, the four wheelers, the environmental nuts who wanted
you to freeze to death rather than run your engine to get some heat,
the crabby dispatchers, the overall daily hassles, all for minimum wage!
Glory Hallelujah, Thank God I’m free at last!
Well…. BYE!
I don’t care if I have to use ELDs but being forced by the gov and having to pay for this is , ######## ! I am an owner operator and I have to pay out of my pocket if they want us to use it let them pay for it!!!! $20 a month and $3000 installed.
I fought them , but after using them the past year, I would not drive for a company without them. If I have a unpreventable accident, I dont have to go to prison, and have BIG BUBBA standing over me. I am where I am suppose to be on the road, and the attorney can go back and cant find a 15 min mistake!!
It’s really pointless making comments about the mandate, but human nature compels me to add my 2 cents. 1st off, I am on paper logs & make good money. Hopefully OOIDA will be able to take FMCSA to task over this AGAIN. For you guys that say you LOVE ELD’s or are chomping at the bit to “voluntarily” go on them, then hey, by all means, enjoy your electronic babysitter. Until then, I’ll continue running paper & feel comfortable in the knowledge that a little black box doesn’t dictate my life out here.
Hey Roger and those of you that don’t like change will go to Electronic logs unless your company, truck or job doesn’t require you to. Guess what? If you don’t like it or have a hard time being told what to do can go find other work. “Black box dictating your life” lol 10 4 Roger.
There is no difference if you are doing your job legally. The only benefit to paper log is that you can cheat them. Other than that?… EXACTLY the same!!! I hear the same old tired excuse all the time. /yawn
Yes there is no difference… The problem is that the law is wrong made. Till now we used to adapt by cheating a little bit. I’m using EOBR for 4 years… you will see how much tirednees e-log brings! The companies will continue to not care about you and how much money you make. From now on you will have to adapt to a wrong made law and an EOBR on top of it!
Cary. What about cost? How much was your install and your monthly charge?
Guess what Cary, you can cheat the damn ELD’s also. And as an added bonus, the company you work for our lease with
can go into their system and “correct” anything they wish on the ELD’s, much the same way I can “correct” my paper logs. Albeit, it’s usually to there benefit when a “correction ” is made to the ELD, but anything man-made can be manipulated!
Cari, how will the eld work if you are sitting/waiting at a received/shipper for hours?
The person asking the question how will it affect me at the docks. Just remember. Once u log into on duty ur clock has started there’s no stopping it i.e. you log in on duty you sit at the dock loading for 3 hrs you will still have 11 hrs drive time once u have logged on duty the clock continues to run for 14 hrs. The trick is if u can get to the dock without starting the clock do it and start the clock after loading. You only need to show 30 min load time
You’re yawning because the truck drives itself and does everything for you.
Amen
Well hopefully you never have to run into a situation where the electronic logs would have saved your ass.
Okay, how many of you driver for someone else? Well are y’all drivers going to help the owner ops pay for these systems to be put on the truck? Oh, and who am I going to send my complaints to about harassing me since I’m the owner and driver and dispatcher? Lol guess that’s the price ya have to pay to play! since we all have elogs and we are no longer illegal, are the fmsca going stop coming in and doing audits on companies? There is a lot of outline questions that is going to be brought up because of this ruling!
I drove for 20 years, and for about 6 months used the “black box.” If you can drop and hook it’sokay, but if you are waiting at a shipper or receiver for hours on end then you’re screwed. Then there are the load swaps to keep that load moving. you’re showing in the sleeper, but you have to wait for the other driver to get there. You might be sleeping, and then comes the bang on your sleeper. You wake up, and drop your trailer, and hook up to the other…Then you try to get back to sleep…good luck with that. Eventually the hours move into times of driving when you’d rather be sleeping. Whenever the government gets involved all they ever do is screw it up like everything else they touch.
How would an electronic log affect, one way or the other, needing to get out of bed for a load swap? This is a ridiculous argument!
He is saying the logs require load swaps in the middle of the run so that the load gets there on time hence going to sleep and waiting for the other driver to show up
No your wrong there is room for argument you might be a proponent of eld but not all are this is going to hurt the industry
I think he was saying if he were on paper he could sleep a lil longer & write it the way he wants.
Cary, your standing up for big government and control. Their one size fits all approach and the black box holding you to the letter of the law is not good. We run elogs. And I run more tired now simply because I can’t stop and take that nap I need as if I do it counts against my fourteen hour rule, with elogs gone is the opportunity to just stop and eat a good meal at a decent truckstop, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to stop in the middle of nowhere with no food, showers or any facilities because the computer says I have to stop, where as thirty miles down the road is everything I need. We loose the opportunity to drive through Chicago and not have to fight the morning rush, because of that computer I have to stop for that wonderful safe law that puts myself and the motoring public in more danger because of the time frame it’s requiring me to drive through that major city.
Then we can do our thirty minute break blocking the fuel island like all the other elb,s scarfing a sandwich over the steering wheel. Sounds like fun to me!
I’ve been reading some comments and hearing comments like. E logs. Are going to make people drive faster. Or Elias don’t improve safety. And the comments some drivers make like when u run out of time ur truck shuts down. Is pure stupid comments. Fact is. Your truck will not shut down after you run out of hours it only shows up as a violation. The reason The government is making it mandatory is flat and simple. People flat out lying on log books. The sad state of facts was there were more dishonest people on log books than honest. That has been proven. The fact is. In truth and reality there is no difference in elogs and paper logs if your being honest. The only difference is the way u manage ur time. Managing time is the key. I’ve been on both. I can say that they both have good and bad points. But the fact is I have not lost money since switching to e logs. I still get the same amount of miles it’s all in how u manage ur time I e need to go to Wal-Mart. Do it on ur 30 mn break things of that nature. It’s like this people are afraid of the unknown. People who have never been on elogs are afraid of them. Are mane angry because the won’t be able to drive 15 or 16 hrs anymore
Or we are o/o who don’t want to pay for the systems when I spend 5 bucks a month or less of paper logs ! If y’all need a computer to do everything for you, sorry to tell ya your a lazy ass.
There will always be something to be a new and improved updated version of safety. I have done both its no big deal its all a matter of semantics. I’ve made good money from using both.
The truth is that paper logs will never be totally gone because the ELD is electronic and will break sometime if not various times, so with that said paper will have to serve as a backup. So have a book or 2 on hand while driving, the DOT checks for that also.
Legal is legal, EOBR or no EOBR. I would not survive killing someone knowing I had been driving illegally. How about we ALL consider the ramifications of our actions BEFORE a judge and jury does it for us.
I have been on both P & E logs.
At scales eLogs are not questioned.
Each Company with eLogs, have their own Macros for each step. When I get a load and I know I will be delayed, that Mac is sent. I then call where I am going to tell them the same.
Electronic is good for records but human interaction is still needed.
Another example of how over regulated our industry is. The government need to handle their own books before telling me what to do with mine. That can’t balance a budget or do much of anything right anymore. So sick of them getting into every action I take. Enough is enough!!
Isn’t it great how it was unsafe to take a break in the driver’s seat and now it’s no problem at all? Prior to the rule change a couple of years ago, you could not log off duty behind the steering wheel. Now they have a rule that you must take a 30 minute break after 8 hours on duty before you can drive again. Hour can daycabs do this? Oh, well just change the rule to say it’s basically safe now.
I drive a set of doubles in the middle of the night. You can’t back then into a slot and you’re not going to find a slot in the middle of the night anyway. What’s left? Every truck stop and rest area is full. Parking on the ramp is illegal.
With paper logs you can turn two 15 minute fuel lane breaks into a half hour. With ELDs those days are over. Where can I legally sit for 30 actual minutes?
Just like the inability to stop the 14 hour clock, the mandatory 30 minute break forces you to drive tired and to take a break when you don’t need one, causing you to become tired.
Excellent post Eric….its really about the big brother having total control as we get forced into computers thinking for humans……and to see us actually co-signing this is disturbing and heartbreaking. ….what is a law….other than words on paper that’s written to benefit a certain group of people for things other than safety. ..
What do you mean? You can’t take a 30 minute rest break in a day cab? Why one earth not? It doesn’t say take a 30 minutes sleeper break! As far as making time or finding a place to park for a break, that’s part of YOUR job, PLAN it out. Sounds like you’re pushing to the last minutes then crying when the place you finally pull of at has no parking. You know you have a longer vehicle and special circumstances, so it’s up to you to plan your stops accordingly.
Anyone whose been in trucking a long time knows 9 times out of 10 you can throw your plans out the window. Get real!
Wow Cary way to take his comments out of context
Well said. I have neen doing this for 23 years and i like elogs myself. Thats my own option. After reading all these comments i see the people who bitching the most are the ones that want to run 18 hours in a day. I make a good living running legal so maybe its time to quit working for swift and find a company that wants to pay what your worth. There out there.
Undecided you must drop and hook everywhere or live in your truck weeks at a time or do short haul.
No matter how much you plan, unexpected things occur. Such as a blow out, a wreck blocking both lanes of a 2 lane road or 4 Mexican towing cars back to Mexico have taken up all the spots where you plan to take your break. And heaven forbid, the shipper that normally takes 1 hour to load you takes 4 hours.
Cary I’m guessing you’re one the solar powered trucks. That park before the sun goes down. Or you’re not a driver at all.
He is not a driver
I uses to run overnight, too. You know just as well as I do that you can sit in front of the fuel island for your 30 and no one will care because there will only be maybe two or three other people awake.
Josh it’s a fuel island not a parking spot. I’ve been pined in behind guys like you taking a 30 at the island before. Turns a 20 min fuel stop into an hour stop. Use your head rookie.
Don’t care 1 way or another. But, BS to force me to drive when I’m tired. Without bringing split sleeper rules back, ELDs are dangerous.
Very dangerous.
If your being forced to drive while tired, then you are definitely with the wrong company. Elogs are not dangerous. No company can force you to do anything, especially not with the other law no one has mentioned which is the no coercion rule that was passed last week. Do your research.
Kevin, you haven’t been doing this long, have you. Driving tired and driving sleepy are two different things. Elogs don’t allow an extra break or nap if you get sleepy. That is, if you have a full 14 planned. I like paper. You like elog. I’m happy you do. It doesn’t matter to me, I just prefer to use what I like.
Kevin if you get tired after 7 due to various reasons, rain, snow ice, then take a 5 hour nap you now have 5.5 hours you must sit. On paper you back it up and go back driving refreshed and ready to go and make your appointment 3 hours down the road.. On Elogs once you start you can’t stop. Forces you to keep driving even when tired in order to make an appointment.
In this whole BS going on the with e-logs or paper for that matter if I can change two things on the name of safety would be “split sleeper” and the 14 hour rule, cause neither paper or e-log or dispatcher can tell you drive when you are tired…
And tired means unsafe.
I’ve run e-logs fire almost 5 years. They’re OK but wait until you are 10 or 15 minutes from home and you run out of time. I run in violation, I’m not doing a 34hr restart that close to home and not going home.
Cant do that pulling a flatbed. Talk about a driver shortage… geez.
I don’t know how you can’t I pull a flatbed and make damn good money with using elogs
I pull flat bed make Damn good money. And I’m on elog. It’s all in keeping the door closed. And stay outta the truck stops
Some things you just know without doing or reviewing any study…dandelion blooms are yellow; snow is white; and garbage-in garbage-out, which is precisely the reason ELDs don’t improve safety: the HOS rules as they are currently written do not improve safety, so neither would ELDs.
It seems to me there`s a lot of people out there that can`t do anything with out government assistance. Anyone that keeps going along with this crap will some day be sorry. These laws are to broad, they don`t address problems with shippers and receivers, rush hour traffic and parking. There laws with out common sense. Both my trucks were built before 2000. The value just went up on them. I won`t be buying anything new.
Where are we going to sleep at .We need more room to park? I am tired of sleeping on the side of the damn interstate. NO DAMN ROOM TO PARK.
This is complete and utter bs….I have my own rig one truck one trailer I’ll need this too or what? I run 350mile radius
This is aimed specifically at owner ops and to put us out of business.. they know good and we’ll we can not afford to sit at shippers/receivers 3,45 hours and still make enough to stay in operation. That is why 5he teamsters has joined with the big companies to get this passed
So true with this they really divided us the rich richer the poor poorer no more middle class big companies want to keep all the work and pay their garbage 40 cents permile im an owner operator on pp logs probably hanging it up in 2 years or get a 2000 or older truck you can still run paper logs on those
I hope not I like to get my own truck some day but with the elog anyone think they would put a cambra in them and also how mach safty is unsafe
We should all defer to @cary for info & advice on paper vs. e-logs.
He/she seems to know everything about everything, anyway.
So how about it @cary? Are you gonna publish your office hours so we can all make appointments? Or will you continue to post your pro e-log comments as you have time?
Just asking, so we’re all on the same page.
Cary is your typical internet Troll. Haven’t you guys figured that one out yet? Cary can not function without having someone or something dictate his/her every move.
Fatalities and accidents involving trucks are up nearly 20%.Drivers many who load
Through the night hours go off duty and sleeper but they do not rest ,if little.Then dispatch puts them out in traffic and at speed after a ten hr. with little or no rest and you have wrecks , fatalities and shut down interstates.That is what the truth is ,I live it ,every day while the Feds sit in their offices.
I suggest before you implement mandatory e-logs you force all states and provinces in North America to supply enough truck parking!
If a driver is not parked in a truck stop or rest area by 7pm he/she will Not get a parking spot. Very few warehouses provide parking and it’s illegal to park on the shoulder of most roads. I wish some genius would tell me what I’m supposed to do with this truck when my E-log forces me to stop but I can’t find a place.
Eventually this will cause an accident and folks if you’re thinking ahead you’re contributing to a legal fund that will place a class action lawsuit against the proponents of e-logs. It is an ill conceived plan devised by people that have more concern for their own profit and political power than any commitment to safety.
I’ve been on 3 separate e-log systems. All three had their idiosyncracies. Being a former computer programmer, it didn’t take long for me to recognise the problems I was/am seeing are directly related to the software that run these pathetic black boxes.
As someone else mentioned: Garbage in = Garbage out.
Example: when arriving at the customer to unload, instead of the software putting up a screen to allow you to get off the driving clock, it throws up a screen wanting all the particulars of the load. In other words, getting off the driving clock takes a back seat to billing the load out to the customer.
Plus, there’s the cost of the device. The cost of collecting and storing the data, etc.
If you’re a one truck operation, who gets to pay for all of that?
These ELD’s are nothing more than another way to run the small independent out of business, and the ATA (along with the mega-carriers) are complicit in this endevor.
It throws it back to common sense laws again. I`m a one man operation if I have to spend the money to comply to use E Logs its crazy because I would be reporting it to myself!! I think a lot of you people are right the Feds are trying to force the little guy out, they can`t keep track of us. That drives them to do this stuff. They want control.
Exactly the deal in a nutshell. No evidence they improve safety. Just another cost for the small guy to absorb at a higher rate than the Megas. The ATA and congress = crony capitalism at its finest. I’ll put my paper log safety record up against anyone running e logs any day.
I’ve been reading a the comments here, and before you people make yourselfs look like idiots, too late for some. Do your research.
1st: Elogs are not dangerous, no company can force you to drive if your tired or sick and if they try to, simple find a new company to work for.
2nd: It’s not hard to make money using them, I do, you just have to know how to manage your time. Spend the night at shippers and receivers if you can. If you sit in traffic mark yourself off duty get a 30 min break in, I do it all the time.
3rd: while I will admit sitting at a customer can hurt but it’s all part of the game. It’s no different then when on paper logs, and you got tired and still stopped early.
4th: Elogs keep dispatchers honest. They can’t force you to do the delivery in the am then drive to pick up then deliver that one the next morning 300 miles away, we’ve all probably run into that crap.
5th: As an owner operator they are not expensive as you think. The system I use cost me $500 and you can actually get it for about $100 then $20 a month for monitoring. And that’s all a tax write off.
And last is look at the rule that was passed last week. The no coercion rule. It prevents companies and customers from forcing us to run illegal. Unfortunately this law passed because too many drivers can’t seem to keep their logs straight. So if you want to run outlaw, please do everyone a favor and find a new career your only endangering yourself and others around you.
I find your lack of judgment both disturbing and very clear, CRYSTAL clear in fact. #2? Seriously? So, not many shippers/receivers allow parking overnight. Sad fact, and the independent O/O is even worse. Also on #2, let’s say you are stuck in traffic and go OFF duty. Along comes Mr. Mario Andretti and wipes you out. You were in a lane of traffic and logged as off duty at the time of impact? Good luck in that lawsuit, pal.
You just don’t know what’s going on! Please do a little bit research in Europe and will see what EOBR will became into the future… There, the electronic log devices are sealed, safeguarded, and if move the truck 10-15 inches the device already register the movement of the truck… If you do smething wrong, the device start to send a small radio signal (like a beep) so that, when passing on scale, let the DOT know something wrong with your log…
Kevin, sounds like you fudge your elog….ie: spend the night at a shipper/receiver and sitting in traffic marked as off duty…so I thought the pro elog people wanted elogs to force drivers tonrun 100% legal?
I was thinking the same thing as I wasted my time reading that crap. The whole reason for this ELog garbage is suppose to force everyone to run legal and be safe. But for anyone that has been out there for at least 10-25yrs understand that human beings doing this type of irregular work can not be stuffed in one “formatted” box. Every day, every run has irregular activities, movements, adjustments that you cant plan for. This means ELogs cant work unless they make many changes to all of log book hourly rules and/or pay more as well as adding a mandatory 24hr delivery grace period. (Which no one is ever gonna do Im pretty sure).
Im so tired of people just allowing and embracing every stupid idea that the Gov. pops up with. NONE of this is for safety nor is it to help the driver in any way. Its just them being over baring, nosy, and also greedy, because its always a price tag along with this mess.
Man, is not a machine. So no one should expect man to operate like one. When your tired and feel you need to sleep, you should be able to. Everyone is different, forced irregular sleep patterns actually make you even more tired. Everyone has their own clock for eating, sleeping and waking up… When you see, or know a place where you can get a good meal, a decent rest, shower, take care of the vehicle, you should be able to go there with out all the foolishness. (This is actually attempting to take the truck driver out of trucking and making him a robot) That extra stress makes you extra tired also, like stuck looking for a parking spot etc. cause you have to shut down. It has very little to do with planing it out, cause as I said before, irregular things happen all the time out there, and once you start your new clock, (which is dictated by your last entry unless you had a few days off) its all rushing unless your on a very short run. And everyone knows that story.
Drivers must unify and do a 3 day strike, along with boycotting places (Towns/Cities/States) and companies, all areas that make it hard on the commercial drivers. They all want their goods and on time, but dont wanna respect what it takes to get it there!Its only one way to get the point across now!
Man COPY THAT!!! Dead On BRO!.
Man COPY THAT!!! Dead On BRO!. E-logs are great. I run 3000+ in 5 days. ( there are kinks) All you need is a half a brain. Work the system, LEGALLY! So anyone crying about e-logs, is just aggrieved that they will no longer be able too run outlaw! Your the guys killing people out there. Running like lunatics in the money lane at 85 MPH’s. Which we all know what happens next, the idiot 4 wheelers that get caught in that deadly web.
Good comment Kevin…
Thank You, Brian well said.
E l ogs are for the professional DRIVER And the companies that love to have their drivers go the limit . we know who I mean the drivers that do whatever they want as long as their hazards are turned on.. the same ones that have never driven a car before in their home country or even seen a car for now I’ll Drive the truck,with their back up alarms and ensuring that park next 2drivers that are already asleep making sure they Leave their urine bottle before they depart. the same ones ATA loves and the government doesn’t have to worry about them ever striking, yes and they do speed up every time you try to get around them. I could probably go on and so did everybody else that that is a trucker understand what I’m saying go on . of course they would like Elogs more than paper logs are on their smartphones anyway. a profession that was once looked up to and you made damn good money is no longer. the trucker is dead long live the professional driver. this was dictated by a true professional trucker.. if there are any discrepancy it is because it was dictated with the same technology forced On us.America and Trucking are gone
Amazing how desperate people are to blame ELD’s for other problems. If your company doesn’t pay you for waiting time, if they leave you stranded at the end of your shift somewhere with no parking, and you have to run past your legal hours just to make money, why are you defending these companies? Talk about an abusive relationship…
Back when the new HoS was introduced (including the 14 hour window), there was giant surge in companies finally paying delay pay to drivers. This is going to be the same – some teething troubles and headaches, but it’s going to give more value to drivers’ time. Something that too many drivers haven’t been doing before.
WOW! that`s great that you don`t have any problems. It sounds like you avoid all traffic and get payed for everything that happens. I would sure would like to know what company you work for. I want to be just like you.
I ran elogs and loved them. Took a little time to get used to them. However I would get calls from dispatch asking me why I wasn’t driving immediately after my ten hours was up. They would also repeatedly ask why I didn’t drive full eleven hours. The new driver coercion law won’t stop this. You can’t prove what is said in a phone call. He said she said.
I’d like to know how this effect interstate construction.
There is a ‘driving off duty’ option for when you have personal errands to run. You can legally drive without a trailer after your max on duty hours, but it cannot be to go pick up a trailer. Some companies limit this to about 60 miles & require you to return to the starting point before you log on duty again. I’m not sure if the law limits the milage.
This won’t allow you to legally drive around a city simply to avoid rush hour & it won’t get you home before your break is over when you’re hauling freight, but if you have a secure drop yard, it can allow you to go home or to the store/laundromat without interrupting the required off duty time towards completing your break.
One more benifit to eld’s is they record on duty time taking away from your driving time. Why is this a good thing you ask? Because finally drivers time will be worth something. I don’t know about the rest of you but I have spent 1000’s of unpaid hours waiting to load and unload, why? Because my time wasn’t considered to be worth anything. Now, consider you have a big fleet of trucks you are used to getting 10,000 miles a month on that start getting 6000 miles a month on, think you would do something about that rather then just let your drivers support their down time ? Next, companies who dont do anything to pay their drivers for this loss of time in their drivers paychecks are going to have a parking lot full of trucks not earning anything. For example, i get 27 dollars an hour now for every minute i spend pre tripping, fueling, loading, unloading, washing, so I finally get payed for everything I do, like I said last post guys, this is going to do more for the drivers then anything they have mandated before. I work a lot less for the same paycheck I used to get and all of a sudden my time is worth something!
My time is and always was worth very much. I don`t need anyone to tell me that. I charge my customers for delays. The difference is you need government help I don`t. I pay myself very well. E logs won`t change that. Listening to some of these comments you would think I was one of the biggest outlaws out here because I disagree with E logs. I have been in this business a long time and do well at it. I`m certainly not a idiot. Suddenly your time is worth something? Gotta go, Good Luck!
Yea have fun staying on the road living in your truck for 2 to 3 weeks missing out on your family in order to make some money with these garbage elds
Dont be naive if your company will make 6k miles instead of 10k. They will have no money to pay anything. And will simply go bankrupt. Any company needs stable income to cover all their payments. If company has 1000 trucks and need to make payments for them every month. And all of a suden they start making 60% of usual income they are gona be able to pay only for 600 trucks. And will have to return 400 back to financial institution. Thats 400 drivers losing job. If you think your company makes millions on you, youre very wrong.
Agree, use to sell my time cheap
Look at it for what it is. The ATA is a special interest group. The government is getting involved = overregulation. If they are going to save billions, does that mean they are going to take more DOT off the road? No. They have increased. Are the feds going to lay people off because they aren’t needed anymore.
The rates won’t increase. Sleep at the shipper\receiver? If they have parking.
The people saying that they like the e-logs, do you work for a big company? Or are you a one truck operation? I guess time will tell and of course depend on the individuals opinion. I’m pretty sure I will be out of the industry. I refuse to shut down an hour away from home on a route I run every day.
I drove with a company that had to start using elog after a major inspection of that company. We were probably the worst outlaw company in the state
for 20 some years before being caught. However, I was always ‘looking over my shoulder’ being afraid of what my log book said compared to real records. Real life will tell you if you are involved in an accident and they determine to ‘prove’ your log book you are in deep trouble, especially if there is a fatality. Having to change to elog was the best thing that ever happened to me as a driver….no more, ‘you gotta haul it or lose your job’
bull from dispatch. No more having to haul it when you are dog tired, knowing the chance taken. Let the company figure out their mode of operation and adapt. I am all in with elog!!
True. No money though.
Weather U people Know it or Not Prisoners have more Rights than Drivers Do. Stick your ELD up your Government A$$. After 42 years and 1 Accident I have Personally had Enough.and before you Idiots jump to conclusions I Broke a bumper block and bent a wheel on the truck it was preventable.
The rule also says This law will not apply to trucks built before the year 2000. My truck was built in 11/99.
As per the law I can continue to use Paper Logs.
I drive fairly local and am home most nights. If i run out of hours on jersey or philly an hour from home how safe is it for me to mess around trying to find parking to no avail? Why not just change the log and drive an extra hour? Ill get a good nights rest a good meal and safe parking etc. Youre telling me this is less safe than trying to park on some ramp with ppl wizzing by all night long?
This is great. We can finally get rid of all the dangerous drivers cheating the law for a quick buck. Though I’m sure there will still be people who figure out a way to break the law.
Enjoy your 600 dollar weekly paycheck you safe driver
Try 400$ a week, till the rates catch up to the times. Most drivers think truck owners are rolling in the dough, when they’re really rolling in the debt. Pulling flats, it will be incredibly difficult for an operator to get anything done on eld’s and my guys are operators not dumb a** lazy drivers. My guys make excellent money now and get home every weekend. I don’t know what’s to come, and I hope they don’t have to take a pay cut. With this eld crap, I just hope the small guys like me can hold on till rates go up.
He is not a driver
Yeah Lance, refer to an earlier post directed at Cary’s comment. ELD’s can be cheated just like paper logs. Sure, a bit trickier, but it can be done. And if the company you work for needs to “fix” your ELD they can certainly do it as well.
Die glorious shinny and chrome!!!!
Valhalla awaits you and your $600 dollars a week.
Would it be exceptional to use e logs where it wont automatically logs your location and hours? What if i wanted to use a device that is electronic but i manually input some of the data?
Can’t wait for everyone to be on elogs. Love these old timers bitchin’ and moanin’ about how they are gonna quit driving. Please do…more loads for me to choose from and freight prices will increase with less drivers on the road. Win win! I’m already on elogs so no loss here. It works if you know how to use it.
Twisted ,
I’m glad to see you think money is going to go up. All they are doing is trying to stimulate the economy by forcing people to buy more shinny junk. Just like the def system was. Remember Deregulation in 1984? Freight was supposed to go up and less government. How’s that going for us.
Everyone just loves electronic logs until they start writing tickets for violations on them. It’s a government tracking device that they are forcing on small business owners. It’s the end of the owner operators. They tried to get us out with CSA. But it backfired and showed that the owner operators are safer than these big companies.
We’re losing our civil rights here.
We are adults we shouldn’t let companies force us to work. I’m sick of hearing companies can’t force us to work anymore. Are we children? Safe is a four letter word that can mean anything. All e logs do is record in real time stamping our location. Cost is high because it has to be installed. Read the new requirements.The enemy is the hours of service. We only need one law. Don’t drive fatigued. Who is anyone to tell another you’re too tired. We used to be able to split and take a nap. Yes we can now but our clock is ticking away. It isn’t easy finding a place to park late at night. Especially when you pull turn pike doubles. No plans in the world will guarantee you a place to park. Sometimes we run out of hours @ the customer. Can’t stay there; we must drive illegally. Only to restart our 10 hr clock after we find a place to park. The enemy is not the log.
Well that does it 22 years on the road 17 of those heavy haul I’m out I’m not arrogant to think that the industry will miss me. I’m going to take my 22 years and go home let the new boy have it. Heavy haul is hard enough without a computer dictating my hours winter time not so bad because of shorter days but during the summer well it will cripple the OD world. Be careful to my trucker family I’m out of the industry.
How is this a historic day for truckers? Its only a good thing for the big companies it could put the little guys out of business
The ATA does more to hurt the trucking business then they will ever help it.
Your not truck drivers today…Your beholden bunk rats…E logs…That’s a joke..They don’t work on so many different levels it’s not even funny. . Picking up produce for one or any transportation that does multiple picks and drops outside of local UPS delivery. Starting off at a delivery point moving one or two hours then sitting for a pickup Your screwed for two. And weather and driver adjustment to it for three. Then there’s traffic, delays at fueling,maintenance etc.. No wonder the truck stops today look like their a zombie Apocalypse. On top of it all, now that you as the driver is completely removed from the CONTROL of time in your life. Your income (or complete lack of it) is CONTROLLED..
I hear a lot of people that likes them on here. And to Cary, yes you plan your day out, but in the middle of the night there are very few places to park for a 30min break. So then you waste more of your time pulling off every exit trying to find a place to park. I haul meat, perishable items. We wait a lot. The problem is for us running out of hours at a shipper or receiver. Yes you need to plan ahead but you don’t know how long it’ll take them. For us O/O it will cut into our pay big time. Just my two cents.
you know as always we fight against each other either in comments about the e-log or on the cb,but we never take time to consider those words together we stand an divided we fall,you can get any organization to come together an make things happens,even the gays,but you truck drivers would rather cry an complain about whats happening then become professional truck drivers an be professional an work together in order that know one make decisions for you,unless you decide that its fair,crying to each other or about the e-log is like holding your cb in your hand an talking,they hear you but who cares,if its the law live with it or stop driving,don’t have a heart attack over what you can’t change
if they want eletronic logs they need to require them in every vehicle that has a dot number on it. they will find a lot more of these local drivers in violation then the over the road. in short if they want a rule they need to make it across the board.
Looks like alot of company steering wheel holders on here. Where is the real driver section ?
That left years ago…Along when a truck was considered a piece of equipment to MAKE MONEY WITH…Not live in like a unpaid cockroach.
My trucks build date is 8/1999 but titled as 2000. Do I got to run P or E?
Some politicians son must’ve became the head of Qualcomm or whatever they will be using for eld thats why it passed now end of story.
Right now, I’m 45 minutes from home, been waiting since my 1:30 appt to get loaded for Monday delivery. It’s 3:54 now. Looks like I’m gonna run out of time. What do I do?
1. Without a warrant a terrorist can’t be tracked 24-7
When did the drivers that feed and supply the nation deserve less rights
2. Weather dictates, Safety and common sense requires that you don’t pull over in a place that you know will require a wrecker to get moving again, because a box requires you to stop.
3. How much does it cost per day, per week to stop before your day is done?
4. Why is it so bad to stop for a nap if your body just can’t get going without taking a severe pay loss for the day?
5. The large carriers who want this do drop and hook, local and regional operations that can maximize miles and hours. The operator who picks up a load and delivers it can’t compete on a level field.
6. As an O/O team who stays out for a month or so and uses the truck as personal conveyance has no freedom to shop, eat or go to a park, movie without being tracked while not under a load. Is this America?
7. As a single, what does your customer do if you park 30 miles from the dock and show up 4-5-6 hours late. Obviously their business goes to the big carrier who does much better operating under these restrictions.
8. The carriers who are pushing this want everyone to have ELD so they can get drivers who have a choice not to have a babysitter to stay since they are in all trucks.
9. Drive through any truck stop or rest area there will be drivers sitting behind the wheel waiting for the box to say go. Frustrated, financially strapped, and waiting, then tired as soon as they are rolling, sorry you can’t stop for 4 or 8 hours or the pay will be affected and probably the customer as well. Is it any wonder accidents are going up not down.
10. The only possible advantage is for the company to avoid law suites from log book being under the microscope and manipulated by the blood sucking legal not justice system we have. Had to be an incredible investment to lobby this through our corrupt government. There will be a driver shortage I hope…
Butler Transportation in kansas city ks. is the only carrier I have worked for that walked the walk and talked the talk on electronic logs.
Every other carrier I have been around perverted the intent or spirit that the EOBR was intended to convey.
These folks go out of their way to produce a safe and fairly balanced result.
On more than one occasion dispatch modified my schedule to fit reality and the law ,without exacting a “punishment” of some sort later.
I could go on and on about them but you will probably think I’m either getting paid to say it or have some ulterior motive , and I guess I kind of do,the harassment I experienced at much larger “mega fleet” operations seemed down right deadly by comparison .
It will give me quite a bit of satisfaction to attend the bankruptcy proceedings for more than a few of these “well respected ”
dirtbag opperations.
While I no longer drive a semi,butler transportation will always be my favorite company.
Check them out if you are thinking about a move. I wish I had found them when I was younger and not such a burn out. pay is competitive and the routes are pretty sweet.
They hire from everywhere but you would be doing yourself a huge favor to live close to K. C.
Even though kansas city is kind of a splooge hole,I even miss it too.
Merry Christmas; )
Back when log requirements changed from 10-8 to 11-10 I didn’t really care because with paper logs I can adjust. But, after really analyzing ELD’s I’m thankful I have left the industry, although, I still love trucks. Due to length of detail I won’t go into why I don’t like ELD’s, but a few have already been mentioned. A few I feel very strongly about. I don’t believe for a second that saftey is increased. I fudged my log virtually every day but the key is, and I emphasize this, don’t drive tired! I won’t lie say I’ve never driven tired but that was only in rare extreme cases where something went wrong. What much of it boils down to is the company itself. It’ll work for some, and others, like myself, it will completely suck.
Been on electronic logs for about two months now and I’m going BROKE. even as a company driver my pay check is about 50% less then is was before ELB.
it’s not that I cheated it’s because there is no flexibility .
Bottom line:
Now the wage and hour rules which were set in place in 1930 need to be updated to include truck drivers so we too can be paid by the hour and get overtime like any normal job. for those that don’t know trucking companies argued for the exemption because they could not keep track of our time.
Guess what Companies???? you can now keep track of our time!!!
I have a question. My 2006 Kenworth W900 has a 2005 crate motor in it. There is no extra hook ups for an e-logs system. What then ????
I’m old school I guess it’s about time to retire all they want in the trucks is school boys that don’t have a real clue what trucking is all about
I feel at though the ELD issue really goes straight to the heart of America’s economic crisis. This is an obvious ploy of the government to control all of the ‘little’ people, for their own good. There is no realistic way for trucking to be this regulated and allow people to make a living. The fact that the government feels as though ELD is a ‘magic pill’ to save lives and make driving safe scares me. I see this as old men and women in congress being totally out of touch with the working class. We will drive many of the single truck drivers out of business, this will only help the rich.
Wait till all the drivers who used to get home every night have to find a 10 hour parking spot. It’s gonna be FUBAR.
I’m not looking forward to this crap. Do we still get the 100 mile radius log free?
I drive for my company (a body manufacturer) very infrequently, but when I do it is often cross country in unfamiliar territory and never with a sleeper. When it is time for me to shut down, I have to find a hotel I can park at and that has vacancy. Do I just drag my trip out an extra day each way? Fun fun fun.
I guess im done running the road. Not worth the the time wasing sitting for 10 hrs when im not tired. When you feel alert, you run and when your tired , you rest. Thats how i see it. Gonna run till i cant use paper logs then im doing local or getting out of it altogether. WWhat are we mechanical things? Its time the the government smartens up and lets us do our job and keeps their BIG noses out of it!
If you are owner just say “Goodbye”,and then you can apply for job at schneider national,swift,jb or other big company and they will be happy to hire you. Then your money will go to our government and they will do what big company wants, because everything is about the money.
Average cost for owners:
Heavy taxes $500 yearly
Registration $1800 yearly in IL
Truck payment $1500 monthly
Tolls $1500 monthly if you run east cost
Parking $250
Repairs and maintenance $1000
Trailer rent $550 monthly
Cargo insurance $720 monthly
Bobtail insurance $250 monthly
Fuel $4500 – $5000
You do the math!! And very likely I forgot something .
Repairs,parking and fuel are monthly expenses as well.
This will be in court next so ATA do not open the Champagne yet,and if you think that all these Real Professional Drivers, not the 3 week wonders. You and the Major Carriers are so proud of, are going to fill your Company seats you better think again.As most of us with our 25 to 30 years will go down the Street.
Amen brother!
Lets face the reality. Example: very often or most of the time my week scenario. I drive regionaly 500 mile radius from home town. I leave home on sunday around 6-9pm. Its usually 6 or 7 hrs drive time 7.5 with fuel stop, the most. Arrive at receiver around 2-3 am. Appoitment 7am if you miss it you have to reschedule for tomorrow or in some cases (beasy companys like walmart) in 2 days. So on paper log i wake up at 6:45am go check in, get a door. Back up and go back to sleep. Unloaded 8 or 9am. Company got no extra parking for empty trucks. You must leave and park elswhere. found parking, drove and parked 10am back to sleep 12:04 dispatch call got a load for me 102 miles 1.75 hrs of driving, company closes at 3pm. I can make it perfectly and in realyty i got 7-9 hrs of sleep feel super straight. Got to shipper checked in at 1:49pm parked at dock. Took another nap. 3pm loaded and super ready to go back to home area. 9-11pm arrived at home town area. Most likely sleeping in a truck due to morning delivery or distance to home. Next morning delivery around home town. Than pickup, and im home with kids at around 4-5pm, 6-9pm leaving for another trip. And the whole cycle goes over. So in perfect scenario i need to make 3 trips like that a week. Leaving home town on Sunday coming back monday night. Leaving on tuesday coming back wednesday night. Leaving on thursday coming back friday night. Sometimes it doesnt happend for reasons like: there is no load in my area or receiver unloading took to long i didnt make it to pickup, got refused product in a trailer, must wait till broker finds where to sell the product. But in perfect scenarik with paper log Ill see my kids for around 2-4hrs every second day and be home on saturday and till sunday evening. If i make less than 3 trips a week i will keep going deeper in to credit cards depth. Cuz i need to make payments for truck, for cargo insurance, apartment, car loan, cell phones, internet, gas and electric, atleast little over credit cards minimums… If i dont make that pickup till 3pm, and im not gona be able to make it with complete right and legal e-log, im losing a day and that means im losing 1 trip since i can’t picup load on friday for saturday. All companies are closed on saturday, or if little percent of them are open its 99.9 percent imposible to find such load. So on e-log without 3rd trip ill have to go bankrupt and feed my kids from walfare which i think is shame… We are barely surviving any ways and you want to do this to us. Thank you very much. There is not always third trip or going empty one way for multiple reasons. So a good week have to compensate for bad one. But there will be no good week any more. Or lets imagine another scenario. More rear but posible my dispatch found a late load that open till 11pm instead of 3pm. By e-log My 10hr sleep would start from the time im finaly empty found parking and its lets say 10am 10+10 makes it 20 or 8pm. But in reality i would wake up at 1pm and will not be able to sleep any more cuz i already had so much sleep. Ok ill have to kill 7 more hours which i could drive instead or be at company getting loaded. 8pm im driving to pick up. 10pm arrived at shipper. 11pm loaded. Now i have to drive till 6 or 7 am. Which is completely against my body clock no mater how much i sleept ill be sleepy at sertain hours very sleepy and dangerous for other peopple on the road. But 100% legal Driving straight by logbook. Loog book must be corrected to drivers needs not drivers body clock to be corrected to logbook. Not gona make roads any safer. Thats what drivers trying to say. There is gona be more sleepy truckers on the road. More trucking companies will go bankrupt and less and less peopple will want to become a truck driver. Which already happens, i mean driver shortage. Good luck
the only way out is to have a partner and drive as a team , there is if you want to have another wife , because that’s what it is “team” have mercy.
I see A LOT of older trucks in our future. Elogs may work for drivers who want to live in the truck. But those of us use to being home every weekend and making decent money will lose money and home time. You can’t run 3000 + miles and be home on weekends on Elogs. Especially if your live loading and unloading, using brokers, unloading or loading at a distribution center, hauling produce, and list goes on. A real truck driver knows exactly what I’m saying. If you’re on a dedicated drop and hook then Elogs may work for you. For those of us who live load we lose. The trucking industry is NOT going to raise pay to make it possible to earn a living at less then 2000 miles a week, which is what I’ll be lucky to get and be home every weekend. With all the sitting waiting for a load or waiting to get loaded or unloaded, waiting while loading and unloading. A LOT of us spend more time sitting then driving. I could go on and on but who would care.
29 yrs carhauling. 4 million miles logged. No tickets or accidents. Greenhorns on here loving ELDS. Ridiculous! I ran multiple books many times. Retiring in 2016 with 30 yrs carhauling at 50 yrs old. Good luck doing the same to all ELD lovers. Big difference between professional driver and truckers. Professional drivers are only worth having around when truckers are on break.
Thank you for displaying the typical car-hauler mentality. You weren’t good, you were LUCKY, to have had no accidents. You guys are the most dangerous, inconsiderate low-lifes on the road calling yourselves truckers. You’re right about one thing, there’s definitely a difference between professional drivers and people like you. Enjoy your retirement, glad you are of the road, we’re all safer without you.
Just curious…did you drive for Allied? I’d bet money on it, though there are plenty of other dangerous car hauling companies out there.
If you control the trucks, you control the economy and the country.
It would be interesting to know how many of the truck accidents
last year were equipped with ELD.
Next will be speed limiters.
This creates animosity with motorists going 10-20 mph faster toward
the trucks.
Right in line with government getting us to look at the right hand while
their left hand is in the cookie jar or your pocket.
My company (a major US concrete products manufacturer) used Rydesmart units (by Ryder: old technology with bad software and the worst cellular network in the Country) for three years before abandoning them due to the frequent “five minutes over hours violations”, expensive harassment complaints (yes; dispatchers do push unreasonably and most halfway intelligent drivers now have attorneys), failure of the Rydesmart units to grant bad weather etc. exceptions when requested, inability of drivers to edit out incorrect information, inability of drivers to access data, and an unusual number of safety related incidents as drivers approached time limits while close to home.
There needs to be some decent software engineering and some flexibility, which there is not.
I used paper logs for over 20 years and not once in 20 years did I ever had a violation. This year I switched over to EL, and have had 3 log book violations already, and not one of them was my fault. the people net malfunctioned in every case. The system is way too rigid and DOT never cuts anyone any breaks. it was obvious that the system failed and I still got the ticket. This is just one more way the government can exercise control over us, next will be driver implants just wait and see.
the best thing about electronic logs is that you no longer need to round up or down to the closest 15 minutes. The electronic logs keep track of all your time minute by minute, so you maximize your available hours and no longer have to worry about making a mistake or knowing exactly how much time we have left.
So, for example, if I drive for 1 hour and 8 minutes, on paper logs I would have to log 1 hour 15 minutes, therefore LOSING 7 minutes. then I get back in the truck and drive 3 hours and 39 minutes. I have to log 3 hours 45 minutes, losing 6 minutes. So far now I’ve lost 13 minutes drive time if I log legally. But with electronic logs, it logs it by the minute, so if two drivers do the same exact run in the same exact time, when the driver using paper logs is out of his 11 hours drive time, the driver using electronic logs might still have 20 minutes to an hour left. So much time is thrown away when you have to round up to the nearest 15 minutes. And yes, sometimes you can round DOWN, but in the end you still lose in the long run, nothing beats logging by the minute rather than in 15-minute increments.
Well, for all who may dislike the new set of rules, I have some advice for you…and NO I’m not being sarcastic but…
The best thing to do is to probably attain a 1999 or earlier model truck.
Seriously.
Paper-logs were eventually leaving our industry anyway, I mean just look at how the country’s operating.
Technology is here
Here we go I have ran E logs 2 times in over 18 years it is junk. it strands you every where but where you have facilities. And 90% of all truck wrecks have on board E logs. I will sell my 2006 truck and buy an older one thanks for the stipulation on the rule.. Lol ,l hats off to the one that slipped that in.
I’ve read quite a few of your comments about eld’s here’s my take on them. I own my truck and trailer have for many years and do well. The problem with the eld’s is this. We are not paid by the hour!!! But they regulate you as you are. Why should I spend more time,more money, out to do the same job that I’m doing now? I’ve been driving for 29 yrs with a clean driving record, I’m not a super trucker as they call it but this is what feeds my family, helps my church. When I leave home its to get out and back without hurting myself or anyone else and make as much money as possible in the least time from home. I’m not a outlaw, but have been known to bend the rules, weather, rush hour or just to rest. E’logs may be fine for some but others don’t need them or want them. It hurts me to see where trucking has gone in the last 20 yrs, I don’t see where it will work for me, so I guess the feds will have to fill my seat in 2017. To those this effects good luck and GOD bless.
Can anyone tell me why four-wheelers are allowed to drive as long as they want? Don’t they ever get tired? Every car/truck collision involves a car. How many car drivers run into trucks after falling asleep at the wheel?
I have a 05 truck but it has a manual motor so how will the e-log with no ecm computer so do I have to run e-log
After reading some of these post I am amazed that you people can tie your own shoes if you don’t have the backbone to tell a dispatcher or broker no without some electronic gimmick maybe you should not be in the truck I’ve been doing this now for over 35 years I have over 3,000,000 miles never been in an accident never have a logbook violation and one speeding ticket why do I need the extra expense there used to be a thing called freedom of choice if you want the gimmicks fine use them but leave the rest of us alone hope OOIDA is successful again
So whats the big deal, theres a reason behind why some dont like elogs and we all know what that is (faulse logs) and no other reason. If you run legally then the only difference is you dont have to make sure you have a pen and a ruler.
I almost cringe every time I hear one of the know it all say “It will save lives”. Because they are just stupid! There is only one thing that will save lives and if they could convince people to do it, well they would be out of a cushy job I guess so they pass all these stupid needless money making laws instead of figuring out how to get people to just “Pay Attention” even just a little bit would be nice.
There is one thing on the road that can save lives and only one thing. Not seat belts, not more cops, not even less hours.. That thing is you! So wake up dipstick and see where you are going and where others are going too..
So we get to make less money. Take up more parking spaces. Have to rush to get to where we need to be.
This has very little to do with safety, and more to do with rewarding the lobbyists who are paying off politicians! Follow the money trail!
I guess, the government better start building bigger truck stops/truck parking facilities.
As far as i know the work day suposed to be 8 Hrs !!(but with8 Hrs the $140000 truck can’t be paid the companies not gonna be able just load you and ETC)! If they want to protect the driver s let do it 8 Hrs driving including on duty Hrs ! The Driver never got paid overtime ,the time away from Home working weekends and Hollydays.and if some hire you they gonna ask to keep up 13-14 hrs a day with out extra pay for that Hrs .And THEY CLAIM THAT E LOG GONNA PROTECT YOU FROM HARRASMENT -THINK TWICE! You allready harrased ones you jump behind the wheel ,try to work less you ll be fired probably .Two thinks -someone is gonna make a millions from selling that devices and the service s .And least but not last try to find a parking in NY ,NJ ARIA !! If you work double shift in Walmart you make the same $ and you ll be home more often!
I use elogs..have for a couple years. Used paper logs years ago. I guess it’s nice to make an adjustment on paper if need be but not typically to stay within the rules and guidelines.
Just like I’m sure the Government always stays within the rules and guidelines.
It would be nice to see more “safe haven park areas along highways and Interstates. I imagine it will only get worse with everyone using elogs.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve trip planned only to find no parking spaces for these breaks in certain areas.
In addition…if the Government wants to mandate our program, they really should mandate the complete picture in order for rules to be a success. Like one thing I can think of, time we spend at a shipper or receiver. 4, 6, 24 hours…I’ve experienced all of it. Maybe the Government should mandate the whole picture. Force shippers and receivers to pay fines or some consequences for inappropriate delays which most likely plays a big part in the DOT having these clock rules in the first place. I don’t have the answers for sure but that’s not in my scope of practice anyways.
When should I expect to receive my government mandated unit in the mail? I need to practice using the box before I have to use it for real.
What? You mean I have to purchase my own unit? Are you telling me that government mandates (spends my money for me) I use something that cost me money without helping my single truck company pay for it? I’m astounded. They surely wouldn’t want to hurt the little guy would they? That’s all big government is good for. Waste, pure waste.
Elogs work great for local. OTR companys should have a option. Anyway someone will find a way to cheet e logs just give it time.
Here is the truth…..ready……”CONTROL” not just by DOT, also by bigger companies that have pull. How will it prevent accidents when the #1 cause of wrecks is “distractions.” The ELD is a distraction, even when not permitted to use while driving. The 14 hour should be gone also, especially after being delayed at shipper/receiver. An ELD can be falsified just as a paper log could. Only will have edits showing with reason being required. We are in a high money market and control is part of that equation. We should go back to the 10/8 rule and be rid of the 11/10 14-hour law.
They claim to save the same number of lives that is the same to how many Veterans commit suicide. The top 5 stats on vehicle wrecks does not involve a Tractor/Trailer. Also the age group that is the leading cause 16-20, cannot legally drive Interstate Transport, that age bracket (18-20) can drive Intra-state. How ever we look at the situation, “We” are not the problem. We get the blame and they find a terrible solution. Up NORTH in Minnesota, I counted many vehicles that ran off the road, vehicles with 4 wheels was over 40 and tractor/trailers was under 10, Did the ELD prevent that, no, because we are not the problem.
Ya know I don’t know why some one would want a dummy computer telling them what to do. People want things done for them they don’t want to do this for themselves the ones that want the ELDs. People like their privacy and this is an invasion.
Please tell me what I’m suppose to do? I’m 15 minutes from hitting my 14 hour clock. I’m 3 exits from truck stop traffic cones to a stop due to accident. I’m stuck for 30 minutes do I have to just park on the side of the road when click hits 14?