CSA2010 and log book form and manner violations

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Mike_MD, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. RickG

    RickG Road Train Member

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    There's another option 3) Don't go to work for a bottom feeder company that doesn't take care of it's drivers and equipment .
    There was post here about crriers using a code on the Qualcomm . Use plain English on the Qualcomm to say why you refuse to do something .
    That got the Crete driver that killed 7 kids a reduced sentence because it helped in the civil suit . He was stil the only one prosecuted though despite the fact there was documented proof he was pushed to run in violation . The resulting audit also had Crete fined over $30,000 for failure to comply with random drug testing requirements . A smaller carrier with those violations would have been shut down .
     
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  3. Markk9

    Markk9 "On your mark"

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    Kajidono, Have you ever had a mechanic for a shop sign off on your log book a repaired? When I drove OTR it was policy that the mechanic or shop would not sign the log book. But, as a side note, they never made me drive a truck that I didn't think was safe. They fixed everything, but didn't want the record of it in the log book.

    This will make the pre and post inspection mean something. But, the trade off will be you the driver need to learn what the rules are as putting the truck out of service. You the driver are going to have to get dirty, by checking all the brakes and stuff, every trailer swap will require you to get under the trailer and check brakes and tires.

    Rollover, you are right. Ever ticket I got from DOT on the road was my fault.

    Mark
     
  4. stranger

    stranger Road Train Member

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    I don't know if some here have been paying attention to the direction this thread is going. No one in the past 5-10 pages has complained about what the new regulations say. We have been having a discussion between MikeMD and a few others about HOW these regulations will be enforced. Specificially, the difference between how a small to medium size company is treated as compared to large (as you call bottom feeder) companies.

    I posted just two examples of unequal enforcement. There are many more to be found. When is the last time a very large carrier was shut down and authority taken away? None that I can think of. I think the new rules can be a great help to many, and hurt just as many. A driver is going to have to know much more about a truck in order to know when something is wrong, or they may be DOT'ed out of a job.

    Dispatchers usually know nothing about a truck, and will not believe a driver when he tells them something is wrong. Drivers will find problems where there are none that affect safety. We all know drivers will still be pushed to drive equipment that will not pass a check. The carrier will eat some points also, and pay a few small fines compared to their revenue. They will fire the driver, and get another underpaid student to take his place, and start all over again.

    I don't see where the truth about how carriers operate is whining as you like to call it. I like to discuss things, and look at all sides, instead of having tunnel vision. IMO, the large companies should be held to the same extremes as a smal company when fines and authority are being handed out. But, you will never see a large company fined out of business, or lose their authority.

    As RickG posted:
    Tell me what would have happened is that were a 300 truck company. More people than the driver would have seen jail time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
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  5. kajidono

    kajidono Road Train Member

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    And it's great that there's guys out there that have been rolling forever with very little problem. But what happens when the overzealous DOT comes down on a fellow driver at your great company and shut it down? What are you gonna do then? Go down the road and get another job, sure. Oh wait, the economy is ####. Must be nice to have a company so big that they get to help write the laws, huh. It's the RIAA all over again.
     
  6. Mike_MD

    Mike_MD Medium Load Member

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    Believe it or not there are rules regarding how a penalty is determined, it's not a simple matter of a person saying you killed some one here's a $100,000 penalty.

    Any time a case is considered a program called Uniform Penalty Accessment (UFA) is used. The information is imported into UFA from the software program used to perform the compliance review called CAPRI. Both CAPRI and UFA are programed to follow the guidelines established to generate the penalty. If a carrier does not have previous enforcement then UFA takes that into account. UFA has a penalty range that must be met. UFA and CAPRI have public versions available at:

    http://infosys.fmcsa.dot.gov/Public...spx?SOFT_NAME=UFA&NAMEGROUP=UFA&DOC_TITLE=UFA

    Crete was penalized $52,440 for violations discovered during the compliance review.

    Since there is no rating information the penalties were most likely generated from a streamline review that targeted the areas of concern.

    http://ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/SafetySea.asp?ais=&dot=73705&WhichForm=&PageN=LR#LR

    For a first time enforcement Crete recevied a significant penalty.

    Regarding the qualcom messages, keep in mind the driver in the accident in Florida was an intrastate driver and was not subject to the FMCSR for the HOS. The FMCSA has jurisdiction over HM, CDL, and D & A testing in intrastate commerce. The FMCSA has no jurisdiction over intrastate HOS, maintenance, vehicle equipment standards, or medicals. Therefore, the FMCSA had no jurisdiction over the HOS for the driver in the Florida crash!

    I'm not sure what you mean. A smaller carrier's penalty would have been less as they are smaller. UFA takes several things into consideration when calculating the first penalty. Carriers are compared side by side to other carriers of equal size and UFA generates a penalty appropriate to the size of the carrier and the number of violations discovered:

    The carrier listed has 850 drivers, probably 45 operate in iterstate commerce the remainder operate in intrastate commerce.

    The carrier was cited at a critical rate for random D & A testing and prosecuted for HM, D & A, and CDL issues.

    It doesn't matter what you suspect, it's what you can prove with documentation.

    How many trucking companies have you ever seen placed OOS by the US DOT? You may have seen carriers go under because they filed bankruptcy; however, I challenge you to name one carrier shut down by the FMCSA with the appropriate news link. I believe some passenger carriers have had their authority revoked for no insurance; however, I cannot recall any property carriers being shut down for a while. Carriers that fail to pay their penalties have their authority revoked. I'm aware of the arbitration process and know carriers can have penalties reduced and make payments; provided they avoid any other penalties the bulk of their penalty may go away.

    One slight problem, the carrier retains the driver's points for three years after the driver is gone. Carriers that fail to take care of equipment and train drivers will have problems remaining in business.

    Carriers have other problems as well, insurance companies use the fit/marginal/unfit ratings to determine the carrier's risk and assign insurance premiums based on the carrier's risk. Carriers in the marginal area will pay higher insurance premiums than those in the fit category.

    Insurance companies are already using FMCSA data to assess risk for insurance premiums.

    Some shippers refuse to use a carrier with a less than satisfactory rating or whose vehicle or driver SEA scores are too high. The high vehicle/driver SEA scores indicate a reliability problem as vehicles/drivers are parked OOS with their freight.

    Carriers have to maintain customer service to avoid loosing major contracts.

    The FMCSA has no arresting powers. The Office of the Inspector General or Attorney General would have to press charges and prosecute for a person to go to jail. The driver in Florida was prosecuted by the Florida Attorney General.

    I understand drivers see the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to penalties and the peace officer is a formable foe as it's your word against theirs; however, during a compliance review the violation has to be documented and you have to demonstrate:

    1. The violation existed

    2. The rule applied, i.e. bill of lading listing placardable amounts of HM or the freight was over 10,001 pounds or 26,001 pounds depending on the charge

    3. Commerce occurred.

    The evidence must demonstrate to a reasonable person the violation occurred, i.e. GPS indicates driver is in Denver, CO but log indicates driver is in Colorado Springs, CO. The evidence may consist of additional information to explain how GPS works which would be included as an Exhibit.

    I had to chuckle at Stanger's comment:

    Yeah you can see right through them, now find one stand alone or two pieces of supporting documents to prove your theory. You figure drivers fuel once a day and pick up a load every other day. A driver may have tolls and may not. GPS wasn't used until earlier this year. Yeah, a fifth grader could pick the picture apart, now let's see them put it back together. :biggrin_25523:

    I cannot say for certainty, but I would venture there are fewer than 40 carriers with more than 5,000 trucks. There are approximately 742,526 registered motor carrier in the US:

    http://ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/Ca...ubmit1=Search&PageN=PlsWait&WhichForm=advance

    Carriers are visited based on their roadside inspection performance. Many stipulate that CSA 2010 will cause carriers that have never been on the radar to pop up changing the way carriers do business.

    CSA 2010 will change the way carriers do business. Carriers inherit the points of drivers they hire and retain the points of drivers they fire. I have long advocated that training is the key not termination. The problem with termination is the carrier doesn't know what they're getting in exchange.

    Be safe.
     
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  7. kajidono

    kajidono Road Train Member

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    Ah, so we can still fudge our logs. Carry on then.
     
  8. stranger

    stranger Road Train Member

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    I found this one pretty quick.


     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  9. kajidono

    kajidono Road Train Member

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    You just provided the example. They don't have to go to the trouble of officially shutting a carrier down. All they have to do is hit them with a heavy fine they can't afford. So they go bankrupt. That's the most common way of being shut down by the DOT.
     
  10. Mike_MD

    Mike_MD Medium Load Member

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    You found an Office of Inspector General where the owners were arrested for criminal activity.

    The FMCSA didn't shut the carrier down the OIG did.

    Then perhaps they should not have been in business in the first place. Sorry no sympathy here.

    Be safe.
     
  11. kajidono

    kajidono Road Train Member

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    Yeah, we know. It's all fun and games until your job is eliminated.
     
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