Are "manual transmissions only" types of drivers supertruckers?

You're talking toxic masculinity in the traditional sense and not disagreeing there.

These days just something as simple as hitting the gym regularly can be construed as toxic.

Its been implied that I'm toxic by a member or 2 of my friend circle simply because a few of us like working on cars or doing handyman type things.

 

Back in the day if you caught a whoopin, you learned - either you were wrong or not to run your mouth. Now if a guy catches a whoopin, he pulls a Deseret Eagle to "defend himself". Or when he knows he'll get whopped, just pulls iron first.

It's a whole lot easier for me to call up HR and claim "hostile work environment" than it is to get the truck to wherever the computer jockey is and punch his lights out.

 

The problem with labeling things as toxic masculinity is the fact that you(collectively speaking). Assume That I think women can’t earn more than a man or are incapable of being front line combat.

First of all a woman shouldn’t be subjected to the horrors of front line combat. Secondly if they were to be captured it would be far worse treatment than that of a man. And third just like your example of an attractive female trainee, the males would be far more focused on her and her safety than they would be at achieving the goals of the mission. To an extent it’s simply biological.


As far as the man staying home. Well children do much better with a mother in a traditional role of care giver and nurturer. It is the man’s role to provide the environment that is most conducive to raising well rounded children. It confuses them on gender roles and gender identity when you throw the traditional family dynamics out the window. These are things that have been done for about the last 30 or so years. Now we have to call people they/thems.

You are right that some women are better heads of households than some men. That leads to weak men who are in turn not respected by the women in their life and frankly feel emasculated. This leads to affairs and domestic violence in an effort to assert some sort of dominance and regain some of their masculine identity back.

Bluntly I think women are special and should be treated as such. There are lots of things I do or have to do because I won’t ask or expect my Queen to be subjected to. There is nothing toxic about my way of thinking, quite the opposite in fact. Old fashioned perhaps, but let’s be honest. This new way isn’t working so great for our children or our families.

 

Starting with the last line first - "this new way isn't working out so great for our children or out families" - you can see the same sentiment since the time of the Book of Ezekiel. But leaving that behind, it's the denigration of boys for "unmasculine" activities that's the problem, and it's very weird an illogical. Most of the top chefs are men, but if a boy takes a cooking elective in high school he gets (or used to) labeled as a homosexual slur. A boy who can sew is 'homosexual slur' while a girl who can wrestle is 'homosexual slur'. Raping a male POW is (supposedly) beyond the pale, but raping a female POW is 'what did you expect?'

A couple of weeks ago someone posted a thread linking to a news article about 2 female teachers engaging in sexual activities with their students. Most of the initial posts were "where were these teachers when I was a kid". When I pushed back (just like I push back every time I see these kinds of posts) that if it were a male teacher and a female student no one would be cracking jokes I was told to 'lighten up'. The only thing that should differentiate treatment is effectiveness. One of the things that made me successful as as swim coach was my ability to make adjustments to the individual athlete while maintaining team integrity. It was a colossal pain in my nether regions, but in 1 year I took a team that had never cracked the top 40 in state to a 12th place finish with three jr national qualifiers (all in the bottom of the age group) while dealing with a toxic parent board.

Familial roles don't lead to cheating or domestic violence. Outside pressures denigrating individuals does. If the wife has the ability to be a doctor, or programmer, or charge nurse while the husband can 'only' be a construction worker - which is better for the family? A life where the man stays home but money is never an issue or a life where the woman stays home and the family lives on poverty wages? The only difference is societal approval. If you want to take a delve into the historical record, 'traditional' gender roles are no were near what contemporary ideas are. Please see any writings by Laura Ingles Wilder, or the letters of Joshua Chamberlain, or pretty much the entire historical record until 1890. Starting about after the Civil War American society started applying upper class values across the social classes - see Horatio Alger.

Pronoun use isn't really an issue, nor is gender fluidity (see Native American/First Nations culture, or Hungarian language, or numerous other examples). If a man's given name is Jonathon, but he asks to be called Jack, what would you call him? Which is a bigger threat to a child's identity - watching a show with they/them pronouns or a show where a character gives up their voice and their heritage for a CHANCE to be with a pretty boy? And have you read any Rhold Dhal? Or the "Lottery"? Or "Where the Red Fern Grows"? Or "The Witch of Blackbird Pond"? Or "Old Yeller"? All staples of 'classic' literature and I read all of them by grade 5, and if they didn't challenge traditional roles, I don't know what would. The modern culture wars aren't about actual issues, it's "Brillo" writ large (see Abby Hoffman and the NY Stock exchange).

 

And this just proves @gentleroger's point.
As my wife likes to say. "If I could teach the kids to do everything people complain I'm teaching them, the first thing I would do is teach them to use deodorant, and that hasn't happened yet."

So maybe you should stop blaming other people for your perceived failings as a parent.

 

As you can see it's 3AM right now. I am not having a good night. I was reading this thread, especially the last several comments and for some reason was reminded of this song.



What reminds me of this song and how I honestly feel can be summed up in the lyrics I made bold.

And the sign said
"Long-haired freaky people
Need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat
And I went in to ask him why
He said, "You look like a fine upstandin' young man
I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat and said, "Imagine that
Huh, me workin' for you"
Whoa
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?
And the sign said
"Anybody caught trespassin'
Will be shot on sight"
So I jumped on the fence and I yelled at the house
"Hey! What gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out
But to keep Mother Nature in?
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face
'Man, you're some kind of sinner'"
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?
Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no, you can't eat
You ain't supposed to be here
The sign said, "You've got to have a membership card
To get inside"
Uh
And the sign said
"Everybody welcome
Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all
I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper
And I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me
I'm alive and doin' fine"
Woo!
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign

 

"Thrown to the Wolves"- The Saga of the 10 Wides.
I started this thread years ago for 2 reasons:
1. To help the guys who are doing what you are doing
2. To laugh at our learning experience.

It seems like everyone is against you. Everyone is trying to get into your pockets. Everyone thinks that you are stupid.

Be better than they think you can be.

Luck in battle, hand.

 

If you’re not useless, they’ll call you toxic. I will embrace toxicity

 

You are clearly a smart man. And probably more well educated than I, but gender rolls do play an issue in the masculinity debate.

I agree with you on the male/female teacher debate.

Familial relationships do play a role in domestic abuse and fidelity.

I don’t really take contemporary modern literary works as my guidance. Much like you or I the authors will write with a bias towards their beliefs. So it really just confirmation bias on your part.


In closing the modern culture war is about one issue. It’s about destroying the nuclear family. First it was an attack on femininity, now masculinity, attacks on the church, sexuality, genders…. The list goes on. I’m not buying it and neither should you.

Masculinity doesn’t mean you talk down to people, abuse them or threaten them. You teach, you lead by example, you protect and defend. I think we both can agree on this.